Jameis Winston suspension?

[Phaded]

He fumbled almost immediately then made a handful more bone head throws. I'm close to throwing in the towel, he's not wired properly.

He played extremely well given the situation that he was thrown into for that game; 4 of 5 drives he was in finished with a touchdown. The one that did not was the final one that ended with an interception on a hail mary where DJax stopped running then continued once he realized the ball was being thrown his way.

There are plenty of things to criticize Winston for - his performance yesterday is not one of them.

[Wile E. Coyote]

I believe 3, possibly 4 times, a healthy QB for the Bucs has been benched mid game

Is that a season record?

.

Record, I don't know. The 2018 Tampa Bay Buccaneers QB carousel may or may not change as frequent as the 2013 Minnesota Vikings QB carousel of Christian Ponder and Matt Cassell; and the 2013 Houston Texans QB carousel of Matt Schaub and Case Keenum, but it has to be getting close to it.

.

[Servo]

He played extremely well given the situation that he was thrown into for that game; 4 of 5 drives he was in finished with a touchdown. The one that did not was the final one that ended with an interception on a hail mary where DJax stopped running then continued once he realized the ball was being thrown his way.
There are plenty of things to criticize Winston for - his performance yesterday is not one of them.

Lol the trend appears like whichever one comes off the bench, they are stellar. They start the next game and suck, rinse and repeat.

Maybe Koetter should just play them both for 1 half

[Wile E. Coyote]

The real take away from the QB carousel in Tampa Bay is that Jameis Winston is having a hard time in taking and securing the starting QB job in Tampa Bay.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I offered a late 2019 1st for Winston in a superflex dynasty this offseason, and his response was that he would only sell Winston for the 1.01...

[ArrylT]

I offered a late 2019 1st for Winston in a superflex dynasty this offseason, and his response was that he would only sell Winston for the 1.01...

In a Superflex, assuming you value young QBs that makes perfect sense. If an owner does not value QBs highly or thinks Winston is a bust then obviously it looks back from that perspective.

Interesting fact is that despite Winston having basically only played 2 full games & 2 half games - on a ppg basis he is outproducing all Rookie QBs, except maybe Mayfield (who was also a 1.01) - and that depends on the QB scoring format - because in some he is.

4 / 1
4 / 2
5 / 1
5 / 2
6 / 2
6 / 4

are all different QB scoring formats.

Not to mention since it is a Superflex that means Winston is also outscoring all 2018 rookies, on a ppg basis, except Barkley.

So yeah I can see an owner who has Winston in a year where there is no Barkley/Elliott atm - and perhaps a weak QB class saying Winston upside is worth more to me than the best rookie QB in the 2019 class.

[Phaded]

I own Winston in a Superflex and would not move him for 1.02; for what it's worth - I would need to think about 1.01.

Winston is still incredibly young and has plenty of time (he is going to be 25 in January, shortly after already finishing his 4th season and younger than guys like Carson Wentz for example). Plus the way he throws the ball around is good for fantasy points.

He's shown enough flashes to make him worth the chance if you want a young QB.

[Servo]

Interesting fact is that despite Winston having basically only played 2 full games & 2 half games - on a ppg basis he is outproducing all Rookie QBs, except maybe Mayfield (who was also a 1.01) - and that depends on the QB scoring format - because in some he is.

I get what you're saying but you're comparing a 4th-year pro to guys who are 21.

Winston has never been horrible at putting up fantasy points, but neither has Blake Bortles (and he probably won people a lot of leagues in the last couple seasons)...the main issue with Winston's value is....is anyone going to commit to the guy long-term? Even after Magic imploded, Winston coughed up the job in a heartbeat.

Blame it on Winston himself, blame it on coaching, blame it on their defense...to me doesn't really matter at this point. I'm not paying an early 1st for a guy who, to me, will probably end up like Sam Bradford, bouncing around from team to team without any legitimate job security.

We'll see how the situation unfolds after Koetter gets fired, which he should have a long time ago. Because whatever coach takes the job will either tell management they believe in Winston or want him gone. (COLD TAKE)

[ArrylT]

Actually Winston is only 16 months older than Mayfield - who is 23. But that is the point I am making - you can take the 1.01 and hope that the guy you get will put up what the 'proven' guy is already doing.

Agreed Winston obviously is not without his warts - but we see every year the same thing happens to a lot of younger QBs - Carr / Mariota / Wentz / Watson have all had their detractors & ups and downs this year. The point is that the new rookie could easily be at best what one of those QBs is. They do not all turn into Mahomes or Goff. Some will bust and some will turn into Daltons or Flaccos.

Furthermore I am not comparing an Aaron Rodgers or Drew Brees to the rookie class - but a guy who can still improve who in the scheme of things is not that much older than the rookie. Also he only had 2 years of college - maybe 1 more year would have been better *shrugs*.

I get the Bradford reference - but I think they are different QBs who are likely to have different paths not to mention Bradford was a part of the old rookie system whereas Winston is on the new - and cost wise will likely be cheaper especially due to the 'issues' teams will use to keep his price tag down. Winstons issues relate to maturity & development whereas Bradfords related to health.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I own Winston in a Superflex and would not move him for 1.02; for what it's worth - I would need to think about 1.01.

I am speechless. I value QBs very highly in superflex, but I honestly don't know how to respond to this.

[Space Cowboy]

He fumbled almost immediately then made a handful more bone head throws. I'm close to throwing in the towel, he's not wired properly.

He played extremely well given the situation that he was thrown into for that game; 4 of 5 drives he was in finished with a touchdown. The one that did not was the final one that ended with an interception on a hail mary where DJax stopped running then continued once he realized the ball was being thrown his way.

There are plenty of things to criticize Winston for - his performance yesterday is not one of them.

The Giants dropped two INTs, one of which was a dreadful throw to I believe Humphries who was draped. I love Jameis but he is 100% the exact same player he was week 1 of his rookie year.

[skip]

I own Winston in a Superflex and would not move him for 1.02; for what it's worth - I would need to think about 1.01.

I am speechless. I value QBs very highly in superflex, but I honestly don't know how to respond to this.

I agree. He's squarely in that tier of guys like the previously mentioned Dalton and Bottles. Reasonably productive from a fantasy perspective but questionable as an NFL QB. Tampa Bay is waffling right now in what to do. Their best course of action is likely to just gut the position and start with new faces in 2019. I can't imagine putting such a high value on Winston when he has no job security after this year.

[ArrylT]

We'll certainly see - and they do have a high 1st coming their way. But not every team goes QB early - as we have seen. Furthermore it is becoming apparent in the NFL that chaos at the QB position is a leading cause of team struggles. Pretty much every team with a losing record either has a mediocre QB, is just developing a new one or suffering through injuries. Does TB really want to re-set and go through more growing pains or - just ride through the storm. Will 1 more year make a real difference? If Winston is still a mess after 2019 then they have 2020 to reboot and that QB class could be similar to 2018.

And it is not just Winston - if they are going to gut the position - then what about Howard / Evans / Godwin. The core of their offence is going to lose a year or two while the next QB develops.

Smart teams grab & develop young talent - they dont throw it away after a few rough years. A key to success is continuity. Pittsburgh & NE and NO so forth have shown that. Now whether or not Winston can improve is a different story - but if TB moves on another team will definitely pick him up - much like NO did with Bridgewater.

Also like I mentioned above - reasonably productive is a bit of an understatement - depending on QB scoring settings which vary much more than other positions in PPR is basically a low end QB1 high end QB2 on a ppg basis despite all this chaos. Dalton & Flacco were meant to show that that is one of the outcomes for rookie QBs - not to compare Winston to - whose production routinely beats theirs.

In all of my superflexes a late 1st (10-12) this year would have netted you Josh Allen if you had a QB need. Maybe Lamar Jackson.

[skip]

Also like I mentioned above - reasonably productive is a bit of an understatement - depending on QB scoring settings which vary much more than other positions in PPR is basically a low end QB1 high end QB2 on a ppg basis despite all this chaos. Dalton & Flacco were meant to show that that is one of the outcomes for rookie QBs - not to compare Winston to - whose production routinely beats theirs.

I'm not sure how you can consider Winston a "low end QB1, high end QB2" when his best performance was 14th (ppg) and 15th (total points). Currently, Winston's ppg put him outside of the top 20. As to him "routinely" producing better than a Dalton or Flacco...

2018 ppg: Dalton 16.5, Winston 15.5, Flacco 15
2017 ppg: Winston 14.1, Dalton 12.7, Flacco 11
2016 ppg: Winston 16.1, Dalton 16.0, Flacco 15.5
2015 ppg: Dalton 18.1, Winston 16.5, Flacco 15.7

The closest thing to an outlier that may support your premise is 2017 but even then the scoring isn't all that far apart (and all 3 QBs were outside of the top 20). I stand by my statement of him simply being "reasonably productive" but where he falls down compared to the other two is winning football games. Dalton has a record of 68-49-2 as a starter. Flacco is 96-67. Winston is 19-29. He needs to string together multiple 10 and 11 win seasons to match the W/L record of these two (between 66% and 71% of his games). I think we all understand that for an NFL team, it's the "W' that matters, not the fantasy stats. My concern with putting forth any amount of investment for someone like Winston is that I'm not confident he's viable for the longer term.

[ArrylT]

I guess that depends - like I said - on scoring format - there are many ways to tweak QB scoring, perhaps more than RB/WR in PPR.

In one format for example

2018 ppg Winston 22.5*, Dalton 22.8 & Flacco 20.9
2017 ppg Winston 21.7, Dalton 18.6 & Flacco 16.2
2016 ppg Winston 22.5, Dalton 21.2 & Flacco 21.0

* dont forget he played 2 full & 2 half games and the half games get counted as full games.

In another

2018 ppg Winston 23.2 , Dalton 23.3 & Flacco 21.0
2017 ppg Winston 20.9, Dalton 18.1 & Flacco 15.8
2016 ppg Winston 23.2, Dalton 21.9 & Flacco 21.3

and a 3rd

2018 ppg Winston 21.7, Dalton 20.1 & Flacco 18.8
2017 ppg Winston 20.1, Dalton 16.5 & Flacco 14.3
2017 ppg Winston 20.4, Dalton 19.8 & Flacco 19.1

Like I said - different formats. Winston on a ppg routinely beats them over the past 3 years -

I quite agree that NFL Teams like wins - and wins come with stability - Dalton & Flacco have been the stable heads of their franchises for 8 & 10 years respectively (not counting this year for Flacco). Winston is in what his 4th year - maybe in 4-5 years if TB stays the course he'll be putting them in regular playoff contention much like Dalton & Flacco have done.

Finally some records I am sure NFL teams are fully aware of
Mentioned because some NFL team is going to look at his resume and say well if TB is dumb enough to toss him aside ... what do Belichicks & good teams do best - take other teams discards.

Most passing touchdowns in a single game by a rookie quarterback: 5 (tied with Ray Buivid, Matthew Stafford, and Deshaun Watson)[74]
Most passing touchdowns by a rookie quarterback in one half: 4 (tied with Marcus Mariota and Deshaun Watson) (November 22, 2015 vs. Philadelphia Eagles)[75]
Youngest player to pass for 3,000 yards: (21 years, 342 days) December 13, 2015[76]
Youngest player to pass for 4,000 yards: (21 years, 363 days) January 3, 2016
Second youngest player to pass for 10,000 yards: (23 years, 303 days; 4 days older than Drew Bledsoe) November 5, 2017[66]
Youngest player to pass for 40 touchdowns: (22 years, 312 days) November 13, 2016[77]
Most seasons of passing for 4,000 yards to begin a career – 2 (2015–2016)
Most touchdown passes before 24th birthday: 69 (23 years, 360 days) December 31, 2017[78]