Joe Mixon Thread: 4 Year extension in Cincy

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The Red Rooster
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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby The Red Rooster » Sun Sep 16, 2018 7:34 am

Titans95 wrote: Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:11 am
The Red Rooster wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:28 pm
thebeast wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:22 pm

Clearly you didn’t watch the last game. Elite vision and he is going to figure out that jump cut the way Bell did.
Correct, I didnt watch. All I read on here is how elite he is...yet, he never gets it done for fantasy production...which is all I care about. Barkley managed to do it...in his first game...behind a terrible oline... against an elite defense. Mixon really hasn't shown the ability to pop off a big play. Not saying he wont, I'm just saying he hasn't.
I don't think it's fair to not watch the games and comment on his ability. Also he had like an 80 yard reception last year, has popped off some bigger players in the preseason as well. Also I don't think anyone values him as a top 5 RB but a lot of people see that "potential" so it would take quite a bit to to sell him. I'll use the same argument for Mixon as I've used for Saquon in the past. No he hasn't proven it yet but it's easy to see why most people chalk last year up as rookie woes/marvin lewis rookie hate/terrible offense. This is an upside stance, Mixon COULD be a top 5 runningback producer and he is 22 years old with great receiving chops, that COULD let his ceiling being an early 1st round pick in startups. Why would someone sell a guy with that much upside at that young age? Are guys like Freeman more likely to produce than Mixon and safer? Yes but Freeman is 27 and doesn't have the upside or workload at this point in his career to be an early 1st round pick in startups anymore. Mixon could be a true 3 down bellcow back that is just now 22 years old. That's as good as it gets. Some owners like to take a more historical approach to valuation and that is fine (risk adverse). but in order to get a lot of value out of your draft picks/assets you have to take your shots and hope they pay off.

Sidenote: No I don't value Mixon the same as Barkley lol. Just comparing why Barkley IS a top 5 valued RB even though he's only played 1 game. Mixon IS a top 10-12 RB even though there are RB's that are ranked below him that have produced a ton more than him to this point.
Getting into a back and forth is not something I have any interest in. Again, as I said, we are 18 games into his career and his value is all about projecting and upside still. I disagree with plenty you said here (espeically where his owners value him) but that's why we all should love this forum....which is to get other perspectives.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Patsfan86 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 am

Well for all my talk I just traded Mixon straight up for Keenan Allen. Couldn't turn that down. So ill be off this thread for the rest of time. Nice chatting. Bye Bye. Still think Mixon will be great.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby btv802 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:04 am

Weknownothing86 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 am Well for all my talk I just traded Mixon straight up for Keenan Allen. Couldn't turn that down. So ill be off this thread for the rest of time. Nice chatting. Bye Bye. Still think Mixon will be great.
Keenan's awesome. Nothing wrong with that trade :eh:
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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Servo » Tue Sep 18, 2018 10:11 am

When you're drafting all of these running backs, you're just hoping that they are good/serviceable starters. Expecting everyone to become elite (Fournette, Mixon, Hunt, Cook, McCaffrey, Kamara, + all the 2018 rookies) just ain't gonna happen over the course of time.

Sure Mixon's 2017 was mediocre at best but over two games, he's looked really good to me and this injury sucks to see because Cincy (while not great) is playing a lot better ball than last year.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Johnny Canuck » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:27 pm

Weknownothing86 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 am Well for all my talk I just traded Mixon straight up for Keenan Allen. Couldn't turn that down. So ill be off this thread for the rest of time. Nice chatting. Bye Bye. Still think Mixon will be great.
So now that you've lost your rose colored bias glasses you're not going to contribute anymore...weird...lol jk kinda

In reality tho, that's a huge steal for you. Great work on the trade. Wish I had Mixon simply so I could trade him to a truther for such a massive payday.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby btv802 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:50 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:27 pm
Weknownothing86 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 am Well for all my talk I just traded Mixon straight up for Keenan Allen. Couldn't turn that down. So ill be off this thread for the rest of time. Nice chatting. Bye Bye. Still think Mixon will be great.
So now that you've lost your rose colored bias glasses you're not going to contribute anymore...weird...lol jk kinda

In reality tho, that's a huge steal for you. Great work on the trade. Wish I had Mixon simply so I could trade him to a truther for such a massive payday.
I like Mixon a lot but think I'd keep Keenan there too.
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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby notweswelker » Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm

Phaded wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:02 pm Who are the "tons of backs" you speak of? There are not many great backs in the NFL.
There's a lot of good backs in the NFL who get limited opportunities. In terms of vision Mixon looks terrible, he has trouble picking the right hole and occasionally stutters too much until his opportunity is gone. I'd put him below 20-25 backs pretty quickly. Guys like TJ Yeldon or Tevin Coleman are definitely better in terms of pure skill, but are not granted the opportunity or volume Mixon is assumed to be guaranteed.

In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Titans95 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:19 pm

0LDMAN wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm
Phaded wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 7:02 pm Who are the "tons of backs" you speak of? There are not many great backs in the NFL.
There's a lot of good backs in the NFL who get limited opportunities. In terms of vision Mixon looks terrible, he has trouble picking the right hole and occasionally stutters too much until his opportunity is gone. I'd put him below 20-25 backs pretty quickly. Guys like TJ Yeldon or Tevin Coleman are definitely better in terms of pure skill, but are not granted the opportunity or volume Mixon is assumed to be guaranteed.

In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.
Won't get into a ranking debate but I think its too early to say Guice/Michel/Chubb are more talented backs. Mixon was a more highly touted prospect from a talent standpoint than either of them coming into the NFL. Not saying neither will be better or worse but until we see them play a few games the jury is still out on that. Disagree completely with Hyde, Ajayi, Yeldon but I guess an argument can be made for the others.

Still think from a Size/Speed/Balance standpoint Mixon is one of the best, his vision could be better but thats also something that can be learned unlike his other attributes. I also think his "patience" would look a whole lot better on a real O-line. Unfortunately that's unlikely for the next couple of years.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Patsfan86 » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:27 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 12:27 pm
Weknownothing86 wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:02 am Well for all my talk I just traded Mixon straight up for Keenan Allen. Couldn't turn that down. So ill be off this thread for the rest of time. Nice chatting. Bye Bye. Still think Mixon will be great.
So now that you've lost your rose colored bias glasses you're not going to contribute anymore...weird...lol jk kinda

In reality tho, that's a huge steal for you. Great work on the trade. Wish I had Mixon simply so I could trade him to a truther for such a massive payday.
I was just kidding ill stick around. Well the owner needed a second RB and is absolutely stacked at WR so he could afford this. It was still an instant accept because I really needed WR help. Using a Two WR set of Golladay and DT won me a game amazingly enough but it wasn't gonna get me much further so its a move I needed to make. Also obviously great for my future too. Mixon has looked great in the games he has played in though and im sure he will come back to full form easily.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby thebeast » Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm

0LDMAN wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:47 pm
thebeast wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:22 pm
0LDMAN wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:52 pm

I think too many people are clinging to that draft capital they spent to get him. He looks like a career RB2 with upside to me. Nothing wrong with that but I haven't seen anything spectacular from him. He looks good. Good is good, it's not elite.
Clearly you didn’t watch the last game. Elite vision and he is going to figure out that jump cut the way Bell did.
Might surprise you but you're not the only one who watches. He's got okay vision, with plus power, and a good jump cut.

So what? Tons of running backs with better vision, better speed/power, better agility. His best weapon is he's a phenomenal receiver. Hope he succeeds but he looks like a RB2 to me, over a year of stats back that up.
I'd like your list. I think if you write them out there aren't as many as you think.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Johnny Canuck » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:20 am

thebeast wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm
0LDMAN wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:47 pm
thebeast wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 3:22 pm

Clearly you didn’t watch the last game. Elite vision and he is going to figure out that jump cut the way Bell did.
Might surprise you but you're not the only one who watches. He's got okay vision, with plus power, and a good jump cut.

So what? Tons of running backs with better vision, better speed/power, better agility. His best weapon is he's a phenomenal receiver. Hope he succeeds but he looks like a RB2 to me, over a year of stats back that up.
I'd like your list. I think if you write them out there aren't as many as you think.
He literally wrote out his list two posts before you replied....
0LDMAN wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby thebeast » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:06 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote: Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:20 am
thebeast wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 3:36 pm
0LDMAN wrote: Sat Sep 15, 2018 6:47 pm

Might surprise you but you're not the only one who watches. He's got okay vision, with plus power, and a good jump cut.

So what? Tons of running backs with better vision, better speed/power, better agility. His best weapon is he's a phenomenal receiver. Hope he succeeds but he looks like a RB2 to me, over a year of stats back that up.
I'd like your list. I think if you write them out there aren't as many as you think.
He literally wrote out his list two posts before you replied....
0LDMAN wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.
I still don't see his post for some reason, but in any case, that list loses him credibility in my eyes for this discussion. When you're listing backups as guys you think have more talent than a 2nd round highly regarded pick who is now in a 3 down role your opinion can't be trusted.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Johnny Canuck » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:53 am

thebeast wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:06 pm
0LDMAN wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.
I still don't see his post for some reason, but in any case, that list loses him credibility in my eyes for this discussion. When you're listing backups as guys you think have more talent than a 2nd round highly regarded pick who is now in a 3 down role your opinion can't be trusted.
To play devils advocate, only four/five of those RBs would maybe be considered to be backups...and it could be argued that all of them have the talent to be starters, just not the opportunity. I'd bet that if any of those guys was in the same position as Mixon (only Gio as competition) they'd all be starters.

Also, almost all the guys that are questionable starters/back ups on that list have a semi-similar (or better) NFL draft capital as Mixon, and most can catch the ball decently enough to be a three down back (although I think Mixon is in the top half of that list regarding pass catching ability).

I'm not saying I totally agree with the list, but it's a decent list, and to say it puts credibility into question is hyperbolic. I don't want to put words in other ppls mouths, but that list appeared to be about pure RB talent at this singular point in time - not just: athleticism, age, or dynasty trade value. If anything, putting Mixon way above portions of that list in terms of overall talent, has the inverse effect for Mixon truthers credibility, and just illuminates the overarching bias that surrounds Mixon.

Either way, it's a fun thread to poke into from time to time and debate. Like I said before, Mixon looks better than I thought he was after the wt loss, and he's a good RB...he's just not this elite going to the HOF type.

He is simply a good RB, and that is fine.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Goddard » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:41 pm

Johnny Canuck wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:53 am
thebeast wrote: Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:06 pm
0LDMAN wrote: Tue Sep 18, 2018 1:33 pm In terms of talent alone...
DJ, Gurley, Kamara, Barkley, Zeke, Bell, Hunt, Cook, CMC, MG, Freeman, Guice, Michel, Yeldon, Coleman, Howard, Chubb, Ingram, Ajayi, Mccoy, Hyde.

All those players are better running backs than Mixon in my opinion. Some have mitigating factors (age, illness, opportunity) that make them less valuable than him in dynasty, but in terms of talent that's where I would slot him.
I still don't see his post for some reason, but in any case, that list loses him credibility in my eyes for this discussion. When you're listing backups as guys you think have more talent than a 2nd round highly regarded pick who is now in a 3 down role your opinion can't be trusted.
To play devils advocate, only four/five of those RBs would maybe be considered to be backups...and it could be argued that all of them have the talent to be starters, just not the opportunity. I'd bet that if any of those guys was in the same position as Mixon (only Gio as competition) they'd all be starters.

Also, almost all the guys that are questionable starters/back ups on that list have a semi-similar (or better) NFL draft capital as Mixon, and most can catch the ball decently enough to be a three down back (although I think Mixon is in the top half of that list regarding pass catching ability).

I'm not saying I totally agree with the list, but it's a decent list, and to say it puts credibility into question is hyperbolic. I don't want to put words in other ppls mouths, but that list appeared to be about pure RB talent at this singular point in time - not just: athleticism, age, or dynasty trade value. If anything, putting Mixon way above portions of that list in terms of overall talent, has the inverse effect for Mixon truthers credibility, and just illuminates the overarching bias that surrounds Mixon.

Either way, it's a fun thread to poke into from time to time and debate. Like I said before, Mixon looks better than I thought he was after the wt loss, and he's a good RB...he's just not this elite going to the HOF type.

He is simply a good RB, and that is fine.
But I thought everyone said Gio was better than Mixon. Now we're saying Mixon "only has Gio as competition?" That's actually not a knock on Mixon because Gio is a pretty good RB. I'm actually a little surprised OLDMAN didn't include him in his list since he basically included everyone else in the NFL. As for some of those backups that don't have the opportunity Mixon has, I'm not sure who we're talking about. There are very few backups on that list that don't include rookies. Yeldon and Coleman are the only ones I can think of that are actual backups, and I'm assuming BEAST was referring mostly to Yeldon. A guy who was drafted to be the starter, but wasn't good enough and his team drafted Fournette a couple years later. Just wanted to play some devil's advocate to your devil's advocate.

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Re: Mixon to the Hall of Fame

Postby Johnny Canuck » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:29 pm

Goddard wrote: Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:41 pm But I thought everyone said Gio was better than Mixon. Now we're saying Mixon "only has Gio as competition?" That's actually not a knock on Mixon because Gio is a pretty good RB. I'm actually a little surprised OLDMAN didn't include him in his list since he basically included everyone else in the NFL. As for some of those backups that don't have the opportunity Mixon has, I'm not sure who we're talking about. There are very few backups on that list that don't include rookies. Yeldon and Coleman are the only ones I can think of that are actual backups, and I'm assuming BEAST was referring mostly to Yeldon. A guy who was drafted to be the starter, but wasn't good enough and his team drafted Fournette a couple years later. Just wanted to play some devil's advocate to your devil's advocate.
I can't speak for others, but I never said Gio was the best thing since sliced bread...I essentially said that Gio was better than Mixon last season (which he was). Gio can be better than Mixon, but that doesn't mean that he's good.

A letter grade of C+ is better than a D, but neither are good.

^That's all in ref to 2017 anyways, things appear to have changed this yr regarding Gio/Mixon...but I guess we'll just have to wait and see how Gio looks this Sunday to see if history will repeat itself...

For ref I think Gio is an okay RB. Like I said he's a C+.

In ref to the rest of your post...I never said I agreed with the list, but I don't disagree either. I honestly didn't really understand the backups point from Beast myself, but just tried my best to interpret it.

The main point I was trying to make was that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and the list from Oldman wasn't that bad, do I agree with every name on it, no I do not...but it's certainly not bad enough to throw credibility out the window. Maybe if it was wayyyyyyy out of line, then sure, but it wasn't, and arguments could be made for every RB listed (if there was a willing truther out there...think the hardest one to find would be an Ajayi one).

Anyways, it's not my list, so meh...Go Collins! lol


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