John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ninotoreS » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:12 am

Better prospect than Perriman and Dorsett, absolutely. Perriman was noted for his unreliable hands and rawness. Dorsett wasn't a 1st round pick on most teams' boards.

White may have been more highly rated than Ross, since he had/has prototypical #1 WR size. Both players killed it at the Combine. The major knock on White was that he was a JuCo transfer and late bloomer in FBS. The major knock on Ross was his injury history.
Jason3123 wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:34 pm Just adds to the already numerous red flags regarding Ross.
What are these "numerous red flags"?

Ross only has one red flag that I see, the obvious one: health.

He checks out highly as a prospect otherwise. No other major flaws or hand-wringing aspects in his profile.

Assertions like "must likely a bust" at this point smack of lazy thinking. It'd be one thing if Ross actually played football his rookie year and was totally awful. But he didn't play. It's foolish to dismiss talent that hasn't even been tested yet.

As for precedent, NFL history is loaded with 'redshirted' rookies that went on to become stars. William Jackson and Travis Kelce are two immediate examples I can think of from just recently. Narrowing the comparables exclusively to wide-receivers is illogical since the position itself had nothing to do with why the rookie season was lost. Not to mention it makes the sample so small as to be rendered irrelevant.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby FantasyFreak » Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:21 am

ninotoreS wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:12 am Better prospect than Perriman and Dorsett, absolutely. Perriman was noted for his unreliable hands and rawness. Dorsett wasn't a 1st round pick on most teams' boards.

White may have been more highly rated than Ross, since he had/has prototypical #1 WR size. Both players killed it at the Combine. The major knock on White was that he was a JuCo transfer and late bloomer in FBS. The major knock on Ross was his injury history.
Jason3123 wrote: Mon Jun 18, 2018 3:34 pm Just adds to the already numerous red flags regarding Ross.
What are these "numerous red flags"?

Ross only has one red flag that I see, the obvious one: health.

He checks out highly as a prospect otherwise. No other major flaws or hand-wringing aspects in his profile.

Assertions like "must likely a bust" at this point smack of lazy thinking. It'd be one thing if Ross actually played football his rookie year and was totally awful. But he didn't play. It's foolish to dismiss talent that hasn't even been tested yet.

As for precedent, NFL history is loaded with 'redshirted' rookies that went on to become stars. William Jackson and Travis Kelce are two immediate examples I can think of from just recently. Narrowing the comparables exclusively to wide-receivers is illogical since the position itself had nothing to do with why the rookie season was lost. Not to mention it makes the sample so small as to be rendered irrelevant.
Yeah, I don't know about "numerous", but one of the other knocks was only one year of production, and his slight body frame was another concern I remember hearing in the pre draft build up. Kevin White had the same concern about the 1 year wonder thing, but he was also considerably older in football terms.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:54 am

https://twitter.com/EvilAndyDalton/stat ... 5181117440

I don't think the catch is remarkable. Linking this because of how much bigger his upper body looks. I had seen reports he weight-trained pretty hard this offseason. His arms didn't look that big two years ago wearing purple and gold. His hamstrings also look even bigger than in '16.

https://twitter.com/JamesRapien/status/ ... 8909303808

Dat speed, tho. All that cushion didn't help much. If Ross is competent at all releasing against press, teams will stop trying it on him entirely, as they usually refused to with Tyreek Hill last season. Too risky.

https://twitter.com/FOX19Joe/status/1022990725666033665

So, apparently, Ross torched Dre Kirkpatrick on a double-move. No video allowed for this portion of practice, but people were taking photos. I think this photo shows it best.

https://www.lockedonbengals.com/bengals ... ckson-iii/

The battles between Jackson and Ross are a trend continuing from minicamp. William Jackson is really good and really fast, if you don't know, and Ross separating against him proves that his tested speed translates to the field.

That having been said, despite the pass interference, I would've liked to see Ross have the play-strength / focus to make that catch.


Final note: Brandon LaFell has been struggling.
Last edited by ninotoreS on Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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addendum to last

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:09 am

ninotoreS wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:54 am Final note: Brandon LaFell has been struggling.
https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/7/29/1 ... n-we-think
FantasyFreak wrote: Fri Jun 22, 2018 11:21 amone of the other knocks was only one year of production
I typically only red-flag this when it happens with a prospect that's an advanced age (as you point out regarding White). Ross was still young coming out, so it doesn't bother me as much. Some. Not much.
and his slight body frame was another concern I remember hearing in the pre draft build up
There's enough examples of WRs with Ross' frame, height, and weight being good NFL players that I don't red-flag it, in and of itself. Maybe this is a matter of semantics, but for me there's a difference between "red flag" and a less severe item on the Cons list.

That having been said, Ross' frame looks not so slight now.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby IBall2 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:33 am

Is this the John Ross hype train? If so, I want to get on! sold my 2.04 draft pick for John Ross + 2019 2nd round pick. Figured it was worth a shot.

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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:38 am

IBall2 wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:33 am Is this the John Ross hype train? If so, I want to get on! sold my 2.04 draft pick for John Ross + 2019 2nd round pick. Figured it was worth a shot.
That is almost like getting him for free or a throw-in, add-on! :thumbup:
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:47 am

I dunno about 'hype train', but at this rate, I think Ross needs to be taken seriously as the potential starter this year opposite Green.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ArrylT » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:00 am

ninotoreS wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:47 am I dunno about 'hype train', but at this rate, I think Ross needs to be taken seriously as the potential starter this year opposite Green.
I do not know if that will actually happen right away but I agree that the possibility should be considered, and it could definitely happen sometime during the season, if it does not by Week I.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:54 am

His only competition to start on the outside is LaFell, really, because Cincy seems to be dedicating Boyd to the slot. Boyd's also having a good camp, by the way.

Other than perhaps run-blocking on the perimeter, there isn't anything LaFell does to enhance the offense. On the other hand, Ross doesn't even need to be targeted on a play to help Green and Mixon; his speed changes the way defenses have to play the other two just by grace of being present on the field.

I have to think LaFell is a very passable obstacle for Ross. LaFell turns 32 this year, PFF graded him the #104th 'best' WR in football last season, and his yards per reception in '17 plummeted to a career low, more than three yards less than his previous two seasons, implying he may not just be on the cliff, but has already fallen off it.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby btv802 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:25 am

I'm here for the John Ross breakout party. Already took my pants off. Lets go.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby clarion contrarion » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:39 am

even with all the john ross cheerleaders drooling and mucking up the place ... the simple fact remains the andy dalton can barely make the options he has viable let alone a speed receiver likely one trick pony . I reckon one could hold and pray for a huge qb upgrade in the not to distant future .
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby Phaded » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:12 am

With all fairness to Andy Dalton - throughout his career, he has not had a lot to work with.
Sure - he has had AJ Green but beyond that, the Bengals seem intent to let every other option walk.
This leaves Dalton throwing to a bunch of misfits and behind a bad offensive line for the majority of his career.
Dalton is not a gamebreaker by any means - but he also is not bad. The media paints the guy in such a negative light but he is better than advertised, the whole McCarron vs Dalton debate was just stupid for example. Instead, much like the fantasy community - everyone is always chasing the young new sexy options.

I think John Ross is a decent buy for his going rate. If I were to go after Davis at his current cost, Williams at his current cost and Ross at his current cost - I would most likely go for Ross. I'm also not that big on the guy, but he's a decent flier.

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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby ninotoreS » Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:54 pm

clarion contrarion wrote: Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:39 am likely one trick pony
Three-level receiver at Washington. It's why his YPR in '16 was 14 yards on 80 catches and not, say, 17-20 yards on 50 catches. Also why he scored so often in the red-zone.


Dalton might indeed be a problem, though. His deep ball isn't a strength, and Ross tends to be too passive when adjusting to underthrown balls. At least on the Huskie tape.
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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby Mascott93 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 4:13 am

Got an offer for Team 3 of my sig.

I give Anthony Miller, I receive Ross and a 2019 2nd

Worth it?
Team 1
10 Man - PPR
QB: Stafford, Goff, Mayfield
RB: Barkley, Drake, Miller, Crowell, Jones, Clement, Gallman
WR: AJG, Samuels, Parker, Kirk, Hamilton, Harmon, Hurst, Cole, Taylor,
TE: Engram, Brate, Gathers
DL: Lawrence, Ngakoue, Jarrett, Poe, Barnett, Davenport
LB: T Smith, Alexander, Edmunds, Wright, Barron, Schobert, McKinney, Hitchens, Vander Esch
DB: Amos , Byard, Evans, Reid


Team 2 - 2 QB Superflex
16 Man - PPR, 1.5 PPR for TE, 6 pts TD pass
QB: Luck, Dalton
RB: Miller, McFadden, Abdullah, Prosise, Cmike
WR: Williams, Marshall, Lockett, T Benjamin, Kupp, Austin, Lafell
TE: Ebron, Gresham, Sims
DST: Broncos


Team 3
10 Man - PPR
QB: Dalton , Eli, lock
RB: Fournette, Howard, Rojo, Miller, Collins, AP, Gio, Breida
WR: OBJ, Cooks, JBrown, Lockett, Godwin, M Brown, Hamilton, Miller, Pettis, MVS, Harmon
TE: Kittle, Engram, Goedart, Eifert, Thomas
DEF: Chiefs

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Re: John Ross: reports of his demise are greatly exaggerated.

Postby Valhalla » Tue Jul 31, 2018 5:11 am

pokerface40 wrote: Fri Jun 15, 2018 1:16 am ... worth taking a stab at him...
Trying to finish him off, then?


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