Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

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Johnny Canuck
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Johnny Canuck » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:07 am

Valhalla, you are def correct that the shoulder is an annoying joint to rehab, and more complicated then most are aware of. I work in disability/rehab so I hear you completely. Just think there's so much pessimism on here about Luck...just a bunch of wet blankets lol.

It's pretty normal to build upon steps/stages of functionality for rehab so I'm not surprised they're taking it very slow.

The main thing is, no one, including Luck, will truly know how successful his rehab went until about midway/the end of the season, and how it stands up to repetitive use/trauma. He can't tell us, what he doesn't even know. Everything is pure speculation at this point, so why not be a glass half full instead of half empty.

Think its best to just be happy that there's an obvs shot Luck will be back in the NFL. It's a better league with Luck playing.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Valhalla » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:18 am

Johnny Canuck wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:07 am Valhalla, you are def correct that the shoulder is an annoying joint to rehab, and more complicated then most are aware of. I work in disability/rehab so I hear you completely. Just think there's so much pessimism on here about Luck...just a bunch of wet blankets lol.

No one, including Luck, will truly know how successful his rehab went until about midway/the end of the season, and how it stands up to repetitive use/trauma. He can't tell us, what he doesn't even know. Everything is pure speculation at this point, so why not be a glass half full instead of half empty.

Think its best to just be happy that there's an obvs shot Luck will be back in the NFL. It's a better league with Luck playing.
Yeah I agree. I do want to see him back out there and out there to stay. I think you're dead on about not really knowing until the repeated throwing motion through the course of a season is tested. I'm being the biggest wet blanket on this subject...sorry about that.
I wasn't even really negative about Luck before just the last couple weeks. I still don't feel like I'm THAT negative on him. I'm down the middle. I think what I've done, is listened to too many glowing/promising notions of Luck's status, read through this forum, and with hearing so many opinions agreeing that he's definitely on the right track, assuming he was back... I took it upon myself to offer the opposing (negative) view. In reality I don't really know. I have no idea. I just also know that all these positive opinions likely ALSO have no idea (unless his rehab team comes to DLF).

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Wed Jun 13, 2018 9:27 am

I agree with most that hopefully there won’t be any setbacks and he will be back playing in the NFL this season.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed Jun 13, 2018 11:15 pm

Jason3123 wrote: Wed Jun 13, 2018 8:50 am
FantasyFreak wrote: Tue Jun 12, 2018 10:57 pm Why hasn't anybody mentioned he was throwing the ball with his left hand?
What?
Joke.
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby GridironGuerilla » Thu Jun 14, 2018 9:00 am

Image

To be fair, I heard it was only 11 pounds.
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby hockeyBjj » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:21 am

Three comments to contribute to this thread

1) In an absolute mess of a dumpster fire rebuilder, I've been swapping trade offer's with the Luck owner for my Le'Veon Bell. Seems both of us think the other side should add. I'd like to be the one to take a chance on a depreciated Luck price as I don't have crap else, and I'd also like Bell off my team for this year to go after the 19 1.1 honestly. He wants a second on top of Bell for Luck, I had tried a few young players on top of Luck equal to an early 2nd for Bell and he declined. What's the current gap to a rebuilder?

2) the 10 passes and sore is indeed a concern. Yeah, he's throwing again for the first time. But I had thought they'd been babying his rehab all off season long. Would be fine, just letting it rest more. Getting work in with tennis balls, taking more than his sweet time. I would be expecting him to come out and throw 10 footballs on short passes without any zip like it wasn't an issue. Just another easy baby step. I wouldn't expect soreness until 30-50 passes and/or some deep balls or bullet passes. This is like a sprinter, after rehabbing an ankle injury, still getting sore after a light jog of 20 yards.

3) I had a labrum tear myself to my right shoulder (hockey injury, full dislocation I never let rehab and played the rest of the year with). I had the shoulder surgeon who does surgeries for the Minnesota Twins, baseball team, do mine. I had rehab with the Mayo Clinic. I never did get to a point of being able to, and still cannot, throw a ball. If I put any force into it more than an elbow flick, it hurts knee buckling bad and feels like I'm straining that labrum that had torn despite all the flexibility and strengthening work.

No, I'm not a professional athlete. And no, I haven't had all the extra work Luck has had. But reading Luck's injury it sounds pretty similar to my own experience. And there's something nasty about that shoulder rotation of a throw pulls in all the wrong places after I'd had my shoulder put back together so it wouldn't be so instable. If I just couldn't zip a ball like I could as a catcher/3rd baseman in highschool anymore after surgery, I'd say of course a pro with a pro team can come back with no issues. But I can't even play catch with my 7 year old nephew. Can't even play second base for church league softball. A throw still feels like it's ripping apart my labrum even after a 2nd and 3rd round of rehab after my initial all clear

I believe that when Luck talks about the "pain" this is what he was talking about. That ripping feeling on the inside when your arm accelerates forward behind the elbow. It doesn't just hurt, it really feels like you can feel tendons ripping. When he is happy saying he's just sore, he hasn't felt that particular experience yet. It will come back once he exerts some throws I fear
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby rubber_duck » Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:43 am

Like most of us, I want to see Luck return to form. Football is better when guys like Luck are at their best. I am not very optimistic about it, however.

The NFL doesn't have many data points to work with regarding quality QBs recovering from labrum surgery. On the other hand, MLB does have and the results are not promising.

Please do your own Googling (or whatever), but here is a link to what I read:
http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins ... ries-r4827

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby UATahoe » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:30 pm

This will ultimately come down to how well Luck adjusts to his new abilities. I think its inevitable that he will definitely not have the same arm talent he did before. It will mainly boil down to how much of that ability he still has and how well he can adjust his game to use it.
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby thebeast » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:05 pm

hockeyBjj wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:21 am Three comments to contribute to this thread

1) In an absolute mess of a dumpster fire rebuilder, I've been swapping trade offer's with the Luck owner for my Le'Veon Bell. Seems both of us think the other side should add. I'd like to be the one to take a chance on a depreciated Luck price as I don't have crap else, and I'd also like Bell off my team for this year to go after the 19 1.1 honestly. He wants a second on top of Bell for Luck, I had tried a few young players on top of Luck equal to an early 2nd for Bell and he declined. What's the current gap to a rebuilder?

2) the 10 passes and sore is indeed a concern. Yeah, he's throwing again for the first time. But I had thought they'd been babying his rehab all off season long. Would be fine, just letting it rest more. Getting work in with tennis balls, taking more than his sweet time. I would be expecting him to come out and throw 10 footballs on short passes without any zip like it wasn't an issue. Just another easy baby step. I wouldn't expect soreness until 30-50 passes and/or some deep balls or bullet passes. This is like a sprinter, after rehabbing an ankle injury, still getting sore after a light jog of 20 yards.

3) I had a labrum tear myself to my right shoulder (hockey injury, full dislocation I never let rehab and played the rest of the year with). I had the shoulder surgeon who does surgeries for the Minnesota Twins, baseball team, do mine. I had rehab with the Mayo Clinic. I never did get to a point of being able to, and still cannot, throw a ball. If I put any force into it more than an elbow flick, it hurts knee buckling bad and feels like I'm straining that labrum that had torn despite all the flexibility and strengthening work.

No, I'm not a professional athlete. And no, I haven't had all the extra work Luck has had. But reading Luck's injury it sounds pretty similar to my own experience. And there's something nasty about that shoulder rotation of a throw pulls in all the wrong places after I'd had my shoulder put back together so it wouldn't be so instable. If I just couldn't zip a ball like I could as a catcher/3rd baseman in highschool anymore after surgery, I'd say of course a pro with a pro team can come back with no issues. But I can't even play catch with my 7 year old nephew. Can't even play second base for church league softball. A throw still feels like it's ripping apart my labrum even after a 2nd and 3rd round of rehab after my initial all clear

I believe that when Luck talks about the "pain" this is what he was talking about. That ripping feeling on the inside when your arm accelerates forward behind the elbow. It doesn't just hurt, it really feels like you can feel tendons ripping. When he is happy saying he's just sore, he hasn't felt that particular experience yet. It will come back once he exerts some throws I fear
You should not be addin anything to Bell. He should be adding kicks to his side. Find another contender who I am sure will be happy to give you picks and young players for Bell.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Vcize » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:09 pm

rubber_duck wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:43 am Like most of us, I want to see Luck return to form. Football is better when guys like Luck are at their best. I am not very optimistic about it, however.

The NFL doesn't have many data points to work with regarding quality QBs recovering from labrum surgery. On the other hand, MLB does have and the results are not promising.

Please do your own Googling (or whatever), but here is a link to what I read:
http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins ... ries-r4827
And I would imagine those results are even worse if we look specifically at the guys that were still having problems this far out from the injury.

Many will point to Brees who had the same injury but by this stage in his recovery Brees had already put a healthy pro bowl season together.

Of course it also didn't hurt that Brees had the best surgeon in the business while Indy bewilderingly passed up on that guy for Luck's shoulder, probably opting instead for someone who would promise them a quick fix and screwed it all up instead.
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Johnny Canuck » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:24 pm

rubber_duck wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 11:43 am Like most of us, I want to see Luck return to form. Football is better when guys like Luck are at their best. I am not very optimistic about it, however.

The NFL doesn't have many data points to work with regarding quality QBs recovering from labrum surgery. On the other hand, MLB does have and the results are not promising.

Please do your own Googling (or whatever), but here is a link to what I read:
http://twinsdaily.com/_/minnesota-twins ... ries-r4827
This Journal article doesn't paint quite as bleak a picture. Stating that a return to play is likely after surgery.

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 7116675822

This article also confirms a return to play/sport is likely, however the athlete will likely not return to pre injury form

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 8113482673

This article conversely stated that a return to play was low

http://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10. ... 6514528096

What does all this tell us...not a ton, but a little. There's not a consensus on return to play percentages, so hedging that he will or won't based on this data doesn't seem prudent. Considering that Luck has been seen increasing his throwing distances last practice up to 25 or so passes of 20 yards, and we have not heard of a set back...yet, it seems reasonable that he will fall into the "return to play" spectrum. Now will he return to his pre injury form, the articles I've this doesn't appear likely (although not impossible). That's not to say he can't, there have been cases of returning to pre injury form, and Luck certainly has a wealth of rehabilitation modalities at his disposal. Also, even if Luck can't return to his old form, Luck may still be a viable fantasy option at 95%, 90%, 85% of his old self. NTM, he might use his legs a bit more, which will lower the amount of big hits he takes, and actually help fantasy production.

Like I said before, no one can accurately predict how Luck will be perform until he's actually in the season. We can all guess, but it's just a guess. Take this info and use it as you will. If ppl are predicting Luck to be his same old self and valuing him as such, just sell. If ppl are still pessimistic, this presents another opportunity to buy for cheap.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby thebeast » Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:44 pm

Holy cow. The guy hasn't thrown a football in two years, there are many articles that say a return to pre-injury form is unlikely and a bunch of guys still think everything is just going to end up fine? This is just bizarre.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Jason3123 » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:38 pm

Maybe I'm in the minority but IMO the default expectation should be that he returns. Not sure why so many people are anticipating the opposite. We're talking about one of the best players in the sport who's only 29. He threw competitively in December 2016 so it hasn't been "2 years since he threw a football". It hasn't even been 18 months. He admittedly rushed back last year, had a setback, has now taken it extremely slow, and here we are. It's June and he's starting to return.

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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby Phaded » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:41 pm

thebeast wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:44 pm Holy cow. The guy hasn't thrown a football in two years, there are many articles that say a return to pre-injury form is unlikely and a bunch of guys still think everything is just going to end up fine? This is just bizarre.
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Re: Andrew Luck resumes throwing regular NFL footballs

Postby GridironGuerilla » Thu Jun 14, 2018 3:45 pm

thebeast wrote: Thu Jun 14, 2018 2:44 pm Holy cow. The guy hasn't thrown a football in two years, there are many articles that say a return to pre-injury form is unlikely and a bunch of guys still think everything is just going to end up fine? This is just bizarre.
I've been through this thread 3 times now trying to find all this "everything if fine" element you are suggesting permeates it. I'm seeing a few people being sarcastic about it, a bunch who still seem pessimistic, and some who remain optimistic and aren't extremely concerned about his limitations in OTA's. Am I missing something? There is a difference between exuberance and optimism regarding his potential return, and I don't see how optimism is "bizarre". I hven't seen single post suggesting that he will absolutely be back to previous form. I'm guess I'm just not seeing what you are.
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