Tyreek Hill or Sammy Watkins

[ninotoreS]

Why wouldnt he? Is it due to age?

Because trends are harder to reverse. Watkins has gotten worse since he entered the NFL, not better.

Let me know when you have some proof of that

The proof is his annual PFF grades, the tape, the analytics, and his production.

That's quite a pile of evidence. Start anywhere you like.


edit: Oh, and speaking of when those team-supporting websites actually write an article that's critical of their own players, and thus a lot more credible: https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2017/1 ... ilm-press/

This is why LA made little effort to retain Watkins despite the price they paid to get him for '17, why they didn't hesitate to acquire Cooks to fulfill the vertical role in their offense instead.

Goff wasn't forcing targets at Watkins when when he wasn't open, which was often. Watkins the last two seasons became a guy that needed zone or off-man coverage to be effective, and if that's who he is now going forward, he'll be a horrendous free-agent bust for KC, getting paid 19 million in '19 to be a limited decoy for Hill.

[ArrylT]

Without knowing the terms of the other (potential) offers, we can't say that. Perhaps they wanted to make an apparently strong offer so they didn't get sucked into a bidding war. Maybe the other offers didn't have as much guarantees. Or, maybe the offers were of the of the 2 year 30mil variety with the entire amount guaranteed. Maybe KC matches that, then raised the contract's ceiling by adding a voidable 3rd year he'd get if he did well the first 2.

No we cannot - but pretty much any player going to Free Agency has a projected salary they'll get - we see that each year before Free Agency - Player X should command Salary Y in FA. Furthermore we knew what the cost to franchise tag him was, as well as what his 5th year option would have cost (if the Bills had not declined it).

Either way that speaks well of what Watkins means to the Chiefs

You likely do not

(a) ensure you make a strong enough offer to ensure it is above everyone elses offer to avoid a bidding war

or

(b) Pay well above what another team would pay

if you did not think the player you were signing was worth that price and had a role to play.

My guess is that the other offers were likely similar to what Allen Robinson got - IE 40-42million with less guaranteed money.

[ArrylT]

The proof is his annual PFF grades, the tape, the analytics, and his production.

That's quite a pile of evidence. Start anywhere you like.


edit: Oh, and speaking of when those team-supporting websites actually write an article that's critical of their own players, and thus a lot more credible: https://theramswire.usatoday.com/2017/1 ... ilm-press/

This is why LA made little effort to retain Watkins despite the price they paid to get him for '17, why they didn't hesitate to acquire Cooks to fulfill the vertical role in their offense instead.

Goff wasn't forcing targets at Watkins when when he wasn't open, which was often. Watkins the last two seasons became a guy that needed zone or off-man coverage to be effective, and if that's who he is now going forward, he'll be a horrendous free-agent bust for KC, getting paid 19 million in '19 to be a limited decoy for Hill.

I dont have access to PFF grades alas - but feel free to share them if you do.

As for tape I've already shared 3 articles showing Watkins tape last year. They all come from later in, or after the season, when its easier to get a more balanced perspective than looking at just 6-7 weeks, and creating a narrative that may or may not be correct. That article seems to suggest that you need more separation in order to succeed - when we already know that in the NFL separation is a lot less than in the college game. The 2nd play in the chiefswire article (with Eric Berry) shows how little separation Watkins actually needed to catch that pass. That article also mentioned one of the WRs who got less separation from the LOS was Marvin Jones - who had a WR1 season last year despite that.

You want analytics or production showing the reverse?

http://www.kansascity.com/sports/spt-co ... 43454.html

including this tasty PFF nugget

"3. According to Pro Football Focus, Watkins has dropped only eight passes over the last three seasons. It said that Watkins didn't drop any passes on 39 catchable targets during the regular season in 2017."

So honestly no I have not seen any evidence yet that shows Watkins has plateaued and will not get better, or has in fact gotten worse - when his attitude and blocking have actually appeared to gotten better even if absolutely nothing else had not (which may or may not be the case).

I am not, nor have I anywhere said that Watkins is going to be this or that - I just think it is too early to be so biased and automatically write off Watkins, especially when there are plenty of signs and evidence suggesting to the contrary. Way I see it - its like when you do a coin toss - you can decide that before hand that everything is leading to the call is heads and argue all you want its only going to be heads. But to me there is just as much of a chance its going to be tails.

[notweswelker]

I see it as Hill = 1.01, and Watkins = 1.06.

Side note: how is Reddit for fantasy and dynasty? I don't really visit those subs often.

Some of the content is good, but there are way more morons who are only there to hype their own players.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I dont have access to PFF grades alas - but feel free to share them if you do.

Per PFF, Watkins was the no. 41 WR with a grade of 76.2. You shouldn't need a membership to view this page: https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/pl ... tkins/8639

As far as targets go, I think Hill will be the 1A to Watkins' 1B. Hill's upside is somewhat capped with Watkin's presence, but I still think Hill is the no. 1 receiver. Regardless, KC has one of the best offensive skill position groups in the NFL right now (possibly no. 2 behind PIT). That combined with their horrendous rebuilding defense should lead to lots of fantasy production from all the KC offensive players. I'm investing wherever I can in Mahomes, Hunt, Hill, Watkins, and Kelce.

[Bo Jackson]

Watkins is the next Julio!

[ArrylT]

Thanks for sharing - figured out a way to see other WR PFF grades from that.