Question about integrity...

[ascherb]

In general, our league doesn't veto any trades as long as it's not so lopsided that collusion is suspected.

In the league I commish, we have all sort of agreed that as long as both owners legitimately want the trade to happen for the good of their respective teams, we let it through. All 14 of us understand that, and I guess we are lucky because all of our owners are pretty savvy when it comes to understanding value and all that (not bragging, but it makes a difference).

The main issue here is one of two things: (A) you have an owner who doesn't understand player values, or (B) the owner doesn't give a bleep about the league and is just doing the commissioner a solid since it doesn't matter to the owner. I've been in leagues with both, and both situations are obviously bad for your league.

As the commish, you probably should have not allowed that trade. From the POV of the other members of your league, it definitely appears shady, and if I didn't know either of you personally, I would definitely question the overall integrity of the league. It sucks because if this guy is willing to make this trade and he's legitimately active and believes the trade would help him, it sucks to miss out on the opportunity to improve your team just because you're the commish, but that sort of comes with the territory, I guess.

The bigger issue, though, is having owners in your league who would pull the trigger on a trade like that. Like I said, to me, it looks like either that owner is woefully ignorant regarding player values or that owner just doesn't really care about the league.

I would sit that individual down and just have a conversation. Sent him/her some links to trade calculators (even if they aren't perfect, it would serve as a decent guideline/learning tool, so he/she can at least recognize how players are valued). Ask him/her if they see themselves in this league in 3 years. Check to see his/her commitment level, and act accordingly. Find a replacement if need be.

[FiremanEd]

Commissioner or not, that is a puzzling trade for someone to make. The fact that you are the Commissioner makes the red flags for new owners even brighter and i can understand why they would be having second thoughts about continuing in your league. There are a lot of leagues out there and it makes little sense to continue in one where a commissioner is willing to put self interest that significant over league interest. Either you should have added (which you clearly have the pieces to do), or you should have settled on a deal for only one of the assets you acquired. By making the deal as it was, you had to have the self awareness that something would come of it, so the fallout shouldn't really come as a surprise. All owners have their limits...especially new ones joining an established league where this is their early introduction.

I would encourage you as Commissioner to do the right thing and honour any refunds to the other owners who just joined and wish to leave whether you uphold the trade or not. It would go a long way to maintaining league health in the long run with existing owners, and finding new ones who won't always have this in the back of their mind. I feel you made a mistake by accepting, and you will have to accept the damage control required to keep things on good terms in the league, as deals like that simply don't happen with any regularity.

[cazzie33]

Fireman Ed brought up my initial question. Would you offer a refund to the new owners if they wanted out after this trade ?

I certainly would want out seeing this and since there is a long time before the season you have ample opportunity to get new owners. I would expect a refund.

[Cherokee]

I see it as you lost trade 1 on purpose knowing the other owner loved CMC and the other pieces were icing on the cake to get the 1st deal done. You could afford to give up ARob because you already knew youd be getting OBJ back. So both deals were you winning big. The other owner didnt have much? Man, he had more than you for team 2. Sorry

[snaps06]

Sorry, but I'm just gonna reiterate what has already been said...

That 2nd trade looks about as shady as a trade can look. If I were a new owner in that league, I'd be leaving ASAP without a second thought. It gives off a really bad vibe. Feel free to check out my profile pic, too, just to show how much I dislike vetoes of any sort...

That trade legitimately hurts the integrity of the league. It may be the worst trade I've ever seen on these boards.

[turcorox911]

Maybe reverse trade #2 because of how lopsided it was. Or just throw in some additional pieces, like next year's first or 2nd. Ionno.

I've also heard of committees and leagues voting on commissioner transactions, just to make sure that he is held to a higher standard. The fact that you are posting here makes me think that you aren't trying to deceive anyone, but I thought I'd throw that stuff out there just as food for thought.

[JDogil12]

That trade 2 actually hurt me.

[FantasyFreak]

Trade 2 was probably the most lopsided trade I've ever seen. I would definitely want to leave a league where that went down with the Commish receiving that. Regardless of intent, it's clear that owner has zero idea about player value, or is actually trying to destroy a league. Either way it's your job to deal with it in the best way possible for the league. As a co-commish I have turned down lopsided offers with re-draft guys new to dynasty for this reason. I took the time to try and educate them to player values, and gave them avenues to research so they could enjoy their dynasty experience, and be a long lasting league mate. I felt I was the first line of defense on an owner new to the fomat to help them make the league stronger, and trades like that can literally rip a league apart from the seams.

[mnpacker]

As a a commish your primary job is to guarantee the health and welfare of the league

as a manager your job is to maximize within the rules your squad's upside and results .

Those missions can be at loggerheads at times - If offered a deal like OBJ & the 1:1 I would advise the other owner to shop those assets to see what he could get or at least advertise they were for sale on the league chat/message board .
I have done this numerous times - I will wait a few days for other managers to throw their hat in the ring but if they dally I will do a deal that I like for my team . Many times manager will find a better deal or one he likes better and many times I have done the deal . If there is an uproar I will point out look that player(s) was being shopped if you wanted in the mix you should get in the mix , as opposed to standing on the sidelines whining after the fact.

I may have to use this in the future.

[mnpacker]

You lost trade one. But it's relatively close. I thought your new owners were just being whiners after reading that first one.

Then I read trade #2.......

There's little chance a trade like that can go down in a league without the league eventually crumbling apart. Add to it the fact that you are the commissioner, there are several new owners, you don't all know each other and you do know the owner you traded with. Good luck, but I don't expect those new owners to stick around if it isn't reversed. I know I wouldn't.

I've tried to reverse the trade, but the other owner has declined. He continues to think he has made his team better and won't even take OBJ or Barkley. Now what am I supposed to do?

[mnpacker]

Fireman Ed brought up my initial question. Would you offer a refund to the new owners if they wanted out after this trade ?

I certainly would want out seeing this and since there is a long time before the season you have ample opportunity to get new owners. I would expect a refund.

One owner is new this year. However, the other two owners are in their 3rd year. None of them have paid yet for the upcoming year. I have asked the most vocal owner (in his 3rd year) if he would like me to find a replacement owner. Waiting to hear back.

[cd6696]

You lost trade one. But it's relatively close. I thought your new owners were just being whiners after reading that first one.

Then I read trade #2.......

There's little chance a trade like that can go down in a league without the league eventually crumbling apart. Add to it the fact that you are the commissioner, there are several new owners, you don't all know each other and you do know the owner you traded with. Good luck, but I don't expect those new owners to stick around if it isn't reversed. I know I wouldn't.

I've tried to reverse the trade, but the other owner has declined. He continues to think he has made his team better and won't even take OBJ or Barkley. Now what am I supposed to do?

Now you just need to be open and honest with your leaguemates. Explain to them what happened. Explain to them that you were making a trade as a team manager and after reviewing as a commish, you realize that trades like that aren't what's best for the league. Similar to a previous poster.

As a commish issues happen and sometimes it looks shady. By handling this well, and refunding owners, explaining the situation, offering to educate the other owner, etc you may keep your "benefit of the doubt" card with remaining owners. A couple commishes I have have made mistakes and handled them well, leaving no doubt that they are acting in the best interest of the league. Others have used that BOTD card and if there is anything that looks sketchy moving forward, I will see myself out at the end of the season.

[cazzie33]

Fireman Ed brought up my initial question. Would you offer a refund to the new owners if they wanted out after this trade ?

I certainly would want out seeing this and since there is a long time before the season you have ample opportunity to get new owners. I would expect a refund.

One owner is new this year. However, the other two owners are in their 3rd year. None of them have paid yet for the upcoming year. I have asked the most vocal owner (in his 3rd year) if he would like me to find a replacement owner. Waiting to hear back.

Then I would and have gone on sites like this and others to warn people that are considering joining your league to think twice about signing up.

As for the owners in their 3rd year it is tougher to walk away when you've invested that much time. Probably they have decent teams that they feel can win so they might stick around for the opportunity to win. Maybe they are like me who would like to stick around and try to beat the obvious ...trying to find a word other than cheaters or unscrupulous as that may not be the case ... As I hate to see anyone benefit or get over on others who play the game fairly.

How or why you insist on trying to act like your are being forced to accept such an obvious travesty of a trade is making you look even more dubious. Sorry but that's the feeling I get when you try to hide behind :

" I've tried to reverse the trade, but the other owner has declined. He continues to think he has made his team better and won't even take OBJ or Barkley. Now what am I supposed to do? "

You're the Commish...reject the trade ! Explain it's not in the best interest of the league. Try to help him in getting a better grasp of players values. Worst case scenario explain to him that maybe he's not cut out for this league and replace him. Instead you have taken the tack to let the trade pass and replace the other owners who are on the right side of the debate. Very Cooganesque !

[cd6696]

Fireman Ed brought up my initial question. Would you offer a refund to the new owners if they wanted out after this trade ?

I certainly would want out seeing this and since there is a long time before the season you have ample opportunity to get new owners. I would expect a refund.

One owner is new this year. However, the other two owners are in their 3rd year. None of them have paid yet for the upcoming year. I have asked the most vocal owner (in his 3rd year) if he would like me to find a replacement owner. Waiting to hear back.

Then I would and have gone on sites like this and others to warn people that are considering joining your league to think twice about signing up.

As for the owners in their 3rd year it is tougher to walk away when you've invested that much time. Probably they have decent teams that they feel can win so they might stick around for the opportunity to win. Maybe they are like me who would like to stick around and try to beat the obvious ...trying to find a word other than cheaters or unscrupulous as that may not be the case ... As I hate to see anyone benefit or get over on others who play the game fairly.

How or why you insist on trying to act like your are being forced to accept such an obvious travesty of a trade is making you look even more dubious. Sorry but that's the feeling I get when you try to hide behind :

" I've tried to reverse the trade, but the other owner has declined. He continues to think he has made his team better and won't even take OBJ or Barkley. Now what am I supposed to do? "

You're the Commish...reject the trade ! Explain it's not in the best interest of the league. Try to help him in getting a better grasp of players values. Worst case scenario explain to him that maybe he's not cut out for this league and replace him. Instead you have taken the tack to let the trade pass and replace the other owners who are on the right side of the debate. Very Cooganesque !

I disagree with this take. I feel like the OP coming here and seeking help shows that he's not trying to be dubious or cheat. He seems to be trying to find that line between being an owner and a commissioner. Good luck OP and don't worry too much about Cazzie. He seems to like kicking out owners/not inviting owners to leagues that don't exist.

[cazzie33]

In case you didn't comprehend the part where I said..." trying to find a word other than cheaters or unscrupulous as that may not be the case "... which means I did consider it not to be collusion. But it does look dubious.

As for yours & others referencing ... "kicking out owners/not inviting owners to leagues that don't exist. " I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you comment on leagues that you're not a member of either. These are probably 99% hypothetical situations that we all comment on. We offer our opinions, never thought anyone should worry or even follow my opinions. Same as I listen to yours but have a different view. Occasionally we may be swayed but in the vast majority of cases we continue down the path we were headed in the first place.

That's how I saw this. The vast majority trashed the 2nd trade and said it should be revoked yet the op came back with another attempt to portray the situation as beyond his control as the other owner still thinks it is a good trade. That's his right, it's his league. Just wouldn't want to participate in it and would let others know how it's run before they join. Don't think he's too worried about my opinion or any others here as it sounds like he's letting the trade go through.

And I'm not worried about getting an invite to join any league either. If I start an "existing" lg. I wouldn't have a problem inviting either of you but it's guaranteed that a trade such as that would be brought to a vote. I don't believe in unilateral veto powers for the Commish. Near as I can tell only one person has said this isn't a horrible,...no epically bad trade. The one that proposed it. So take what I say with a mili-grain of salt but I'm not alone in trashing the trade going through.