Tanking

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
OhCruelestRanter
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Re: Tanking

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Mon May 21, 2018 11:35 am

There are two things being discussed here.

The first, "Is this tanking?" is a resounding and unequivocal "yes". You are deliberately not starting somebody who is assuredly one of your best players.

The second inherit question is "is this okay?" and the answer is more nuanced:

1. Do the league by-laws mention tanking at all? No? Then move along. If you don't like that, either vote to change the by-laws or find a new league.

2. The league by-laws do mention tanking? Great! Do those by-laws mention the practice squad? They do? Perfect, do whatever the by-laws say.

3. Your league has by-laws regarding tanking, but they don't mention the practice squad? Fine, seems like it's time for an amendment. Something to the affect of "a team must attempt to start its best players, including/not including those on the practice squad" should clear this up.

Trying to convince your whole league (or the community here) to have the exact same feelings about rebuilding/tanking that you have is a damn fool's errand. Just clearly define this stuff in your league's rules and then make sure everybody abides by them.
COOGAN IS A CHEATER AND A THIEF

MonkeyMafia
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Re: Tanking

Postby MonkeyMafia » Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 pm

Sorry to jump back in here after so much discussion, but here are what the relevant parts of the by-laws state. Taxi Squad rules, and league integrity rules.

XI. Taxi Squad

A. The Squad can contain up to two rookies. As indicated by the (R) after their name, team, and position.

B. During the offseason players can be added to or removed from the Taxi Squad at the owners leisure.

C. Taxi Squad movement may continue until the start of the first regular season NFL game.

D. After that date players may be promoted to the active roster but the Taxi Squad spot will be lost for the season.

E. Once the season is final any player still on the Taxi Squad will be put on the active roster.

F. The Taxi Squad will reopen when the yearly draft begins. Date TBA.

G. Rookies traded from one team to another can be placed on the new teams Taxi Squad if the new owner wants to make that move. This move must be made before that player's game the week he was traded otherwise he is considered on the active roster.

XIII. League Integrity

As an owner in FIDO it is implied that I will play my team with the intent to win each and every week that I have a scheduled game. I realize that trying to tank any game is not an acceptable practice and could result in being penalized draft picks or removed from the league entirely. Any penalty is up to the discretion of the commish.

If an owner believes you are violating this policy the owner will report it to the commish and you will be allowed the chance to defend your position and your accusor will be allowed to present his case in a league-wide thread. Any penalties will be derived from that thread. WARNING: Any owner reporting another with this serious charge will be required to back up his accusation. An owner who makes an accusation without backing up his statement can be held to the same penalties as the accused.

In no way does this clause require an owner to pick up a player who happens to be scoring more points than a player already on their roster.

Penalties could also be enforced, at the commish's discretion, for abusing a rule or using a rule as an unfair advantage other other owners. i.e. adding/dropping players to keep them on the 24 hour waiver.

-------------------------------------------

After reading through the discussions it seems to me that having Barkley on TS (in this instance) would be within the rights of the owner, though it does seem to be a bit of an underhanded move. It also seems to me that the best course of action would be to either allow it, or add language that prevents it such as no rookie drafted in the leagues first round may be on TS (or some other qualification like prior to the 1.06). Does that interpretation seem wrong?

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Re: Tanking

Postby M-Dub » Mon May 21, 2018 4:38 pm

As long as he’s taxied before week 1, I would have no problem with it. It’s a legit strategy to speed up a rebuild. As long as he appears to be starting the best lineup from his active roster, I see no reason to force someone to spend years mired in mediocrity. If it really troubles a majority of league owners that much, just do what other have suggested and get rid of taxi squads altogether.
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12-team PPR dynasty, all TDs 6 pts, .04/PRY, .02/KRY, 17-player rosters (minimum of four 1st/2nd-year players), 2-player taxi squad
8 starters: 1 QB, 1-4 RB/WR/TE


QB: Brees, Rivers, Mayfield
RB: Mixon, McKinnon, Guice, Crow, Miller, Foreman, Montgomery, Henderson, Lindsay
WR: Keenan, Funch, Dez, Sammy, Golladay, P-Rich, Enunwa
TE: Ertz, Gronk, Fumagalli, Swain
Taxi: Godwin, Shaheen
2019: two 1st, two 2nd, two 3rd
2020: one 1st, one 2nd, one 3rd

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Re: Tanking

Postby Pullo Vision » Mon May 21, 2018 6:18 pm

MonkeyMafia wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 pm
After reading through the discussions it seems to me that having Barkley on TS (in this instance) would be within the rights of the owner, though it does seem to be a bit of an underhanded move. It also seems to me that the best course of action would be to either allow it, or add language that prevents it such as no rookie drafted in the leagues first round may be on TS (or some other qualification like prior to the 1.06). Does that interpretation seem wrong?
I agree with you except for the underlined part. Allowing poaching will keep quality rookies off the PS and prevent this kind of behavior without this artificial "only drafts drafted after this point can be stashed" rule. It has the added advantage of adding a layer of strategy and tactics. Would it enhance the value of the later picks, so you can stash them without concern?
14 tm ppr, 1Q, 2R, 3W, 1T, R/W/T
R Wilson, Eli, Flacco
Zeke, Freeman, Ajayi, P Barber, Clement, Montgomery, Yeldon, D Murray, Ivory, R Kelley
Hopkins, Marvin Jones, R Anderson, M Wallace, Garcon, Meredith, A Wilson
Jimmy G, Kittle


If you had to fight either 1 @juliuspeppers-sized duck or 50 duck-sized @juliuspeppers, which would you pick?

OhCruelestRanter
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Re: Tanking

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Mon May 21, 2018 7:57 pm

Pullo Vision wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 6:18 pm
MonkeyMafia wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 3:47 pm
After reading through the discussions it seems to me that having Barkley on TS (in this instance) would be within the rights of the owner, though it does seem to be a bit of an underhanded move. It also seems to me that the best course of action would be to either allow it, or add language that prevents it such as no rookie drafted in the leagues first round may be on TS (or some other qualification like prior to the 1.06). Does that interpretation seem wrong?
I agree with you except for the underlined part. Allowing poaching will keep quality rookies off the PS and prevent this kind of behavior without this artificial "only drafts drafted after this point can be stashed" rule. It has the added advantage of adding a layer of strategy and tactics. Would it enhance the value of the later picks, so you can stash them without concern?
I think the simpler idea is to amend the rules regarding tanking to include the Taxi Squad. Nobody in their right mind would think sitting Barkley on the bench is reasonable; the by-laws just need to specify that there's no difference between the practice squad and the bench in this regard.

Plenty of dynasty first round picks have struggled enough to earn a spot on the Taxi Squad- Ross, Treadwell, Coleman, Doctson, Agholor, any TE other than Engram or Henry.

The problem isn't putting first round picks on the taxi squad, the problem is putting players who should be in your starting lineup on your taxi squad, so that's what any rule should address.
COOGAN IS A CHEATER AND A THIEF

turcorox911
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Re: Tanking

Postby turcorox911 » Mon May 21, 2018 8:58 pm

That's tanking, but it can be justified and should be legitimate.

cazzie33
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Re: Tanking

Postby cazzie33 » Wed May 23, 2018 7:28 pm

Need an Albert Einstein to come up with a mathematical formula theory of relativity to tanking.

Divide the energy expended to tank = mass of points left on taxi by the cumulative points total relative to potential starters points .

Take that number and apply it to the possibility of games won /lost due to the differential in active roster vs tanked taxi scoring and it's gravitational pull towards the bottom of the standings.

That would be the Tankard's Quotient

Now that's a bunch of mumbo jumbo as is almost any empirical evidence of tanking that can be written in the bylaws. We know when we are seeing it but quantifying it is another thing.

We tried using a best ball type approach one year to settle the non playoffs draft order. An owner made a late trade of one of his best starters to secure the first overall. Come up with a bug proof system, them bleep-a-roaches will find a way around it :wall:

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Re: Tanking

Postby TheTroll » Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:45 am
skip wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:28 am
Putting him there at the start of the season isn't tanking. At this point there is no guarantee he produces well at all, regardless of what assumptions are built into his draft position. If he starts producing at a high level then leaving him there is tanking. From here, every league has it's own attitude/rules in regard to tanking and it's a topic already discussed a lot on this forum.
There is no guarantee anybody produces well, though. My personal take is that the intent is tanking if anybody has Barkley on their taxi week 1. It's the intent. Not sure there can be much of an argument for not having Barkley on your roster week 1, unless it is for that purpose, and as you said, every league has their own set of rules for it. If it isn't against the rules, then technically it's OK, but I think this specific example is defeats the integrity of rostering your best players. Curious as to how many games you would feel it's acceptable to leave him there for if and when he starts producing?

I will be drafting Barkley at 1.01 and he will remain on my Taxi all year (barring a lot of injuries). Him on my roster means he can’t be used against me any week.
10 team, 20 man roster + 4 Taxi, PPR, Dynasty
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def

QB: Wentz, Goff, Winston
RB: LeVeon, Zeke, Kamara, Howard, Drake, Cohen, Kelley, Sims
WR; OBJ, Hopkins, Evans, Diggs, Watkins, C Davis
TE: Engram, Olsen, Doyle

Taxi: Barkley, Sutton, J Washington, Gesecki, Mayfield, Clement, Ekeler, Samuel, Hollins

2019: 1st (x2)
2020: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

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Re: Tanking

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed May 23, 2018 9:11 pm

TheTroll wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:45 am
skip wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:28 am
Putting him there at the start of the season isn't tanking. At this point there is no guarantee he produces well at all, regardless of what assumptions are built into his draft position. If he starts producing at a high level then leaving him there is tanking. From here, every league has it's own attitude/rules in regard to tanking and it's a topic already discussed a lot on this forum.
There is no guarantee anybody produces well, though. My personal take is that the intent is tanking if anybody has Barkley on their taxi week 1. It's the intent. Not sure there can be much of an argument for not having Barkley on your roster week 1, unless it is for that purpose, and as you said, every league has their own set of rules for it. If it isn't against the rules, then technically it's OK, but I think this specific example is defeats the integrity of rostering your best players. Curious as to how many games you would feel it's acceptable to leave him there for if and when he starts producing?

I will be drafting Barkley at 1.01 and he will remain on my Taxi all year (barring a lot of injuries). Him on my roster means he can’t be used against me any week.
How could he be used against you if he's on your roster? With your roster I can understand, it may be an acceptation, as you are a contender, but if he's producing more than those guys, I'm assuming you bring him up, as you are an obvious contender.
Last edited by FantasyFreak on Wed May 23, 2018 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TheTroll
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Re: Tanking

Postby TheTroll » Wed May 23, 2018 9:14 pm

FantasyFreak wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:11 pm
TheTroll wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Sat May 19, 2018 10:45 am


There is no guarantee anybody produces well, though. My personal take is that the intent is tanking if anybody has Barkley on their taxi week 1. It's the intent. Not sure there can be much of an argument for not having Barkley on your roster week 1, unless it is for that purpose, and as you said, every league has their own set of rules for it. If it isn't against the rules, then technically it's OK, but I think this specific example is defeats the integrity of rostering your best players. Curious as to how many games you would feel it's acceptable to leave him there for if and when he starts producing?

I will be drafting Barkley at 1.01 and he will remain on my Taxi all year (barring a lot of injuries). Him on my roster means he can’t be used against me any week.
How could he be used against you if he's on your roster? Your intent is to tank then, is what you are saying.
Means I don’t need him at this point...I’m going to draft him to stash
10 team, 20 man roster + 4 Taxi, PPR, Dynasty
1 QB, 2 RB, 2 WR, 1 Flex, 1 TE, K, Def

QB: Wentz, Goff, Winston
RB: LeVeon, Zeke, Kamara, Howard, Drake, Cohen, Kelley, Sims
WR; OBJ, Hopkins, Evans, Diggs, Watkins, C Davis
TE: Engram, Olsen, Doyle

Taxi: Barkley, Sutton, J Washington, Gesecki, Mayfield, Clement, Ekeler, Samuel, Hollins

2019: 1st (x2)
2020: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

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Re: Tanking

Postby FantasyFreak » Wed May 23, 2018 9:15 pm

TheTroll wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:14 pm
FantasyFreak wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 9:11 pm
TheTroll wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 8:05 pm



I will be drafting Barkley at 1.01 and he will remain on my Taxi all year (barring a lot of injuries). Him on my roster means he can’t be used against me any week.
How could he be used against you if he's on your roster? Your intent is to tank then, is what you are saying.
Means I don’t need him at this point...I’m going to draft him to stash
Yeah, I just edited, I didn't see your team. You're loaded
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