pettis or gallup?

[maxhyde]

Before the draft I thought Gallup was the better WR and nothing has changed since then. I think Pettis is good but I do like Gallup's game better all around. I will admit I think Pettis runs better routes when he isn't getting pushed off them

[ericanadian]

The full quote from the article:

1. WR Dante Pettis. Pettis is not a natural receiver, but he has talent. He’s shifty and can beat press coverage. McFadden tried to jam him once and whiffed entirely. Pettis can get open, unlike A.J. Jenkins. But, Pettis doesn’t seem tough over the middle. Twice, he casually waved with one hand at a pass over the middle instead of jumping and attacking the ball with both hands, as James did more than once. Pettis seemed scared of getting decked by a safety.

The reporter is reading an awful lot into the plays and it doesn't sound like he's being outmuscled. Maybe he's scared, maybe he just knew he couldn't catch it.

[lukkynumber13]

I think Pettis is the most underrated guy in this draft. When I see his tape I see a complete WR and he was drafted to maybe the most desirable landing spot in the league (at worst 2nd to Green Bay).

If Sutton had been drafted to SF in the early 2nd he would be a top 5 rookie pick and honestly I think Pettis will be a better pro than Sutton.

x2

I wouldn't want Gallup over Pettis; and I DEFINITELY wouldn't pay on top of Pettis to get Gallup.

[ninotoreS]

The reporter is reading an awful lot into the plays and it doesn't sound like he's being outmuscled. Maybe he's scared, maybe he just knew he couldn't catch it.

My point is that it indicates he's soft. Softness and lack of play-strength typically go together. But it's worse to be soft than to simply have below-average play-strength, because the latter guy might still have heart and will.

As for being out-muscled, that'll happen starting in training-camp.

The clean release from press mentioned is good, but one rep doesn't mean much because a WR in the NFL needs a more than one technique in his toolbox to earn a clean release; if he has only one, the DB will know how to stop it after the first time.

Take Cedrick Wilson from this year's class, for example. College production, passer-rating analytics and proficient route-tree makes him seem like a great prospect. But he fell to late Day 3 because he has one and only one decent technique for beating press (a good rocker step), and struggles with man-coverage due to insufficient play-strength. Pettis is like a shorter version of Wilson with better hands and more special-teams value.

Anyway,

maybe he just knew he couldn't catch it

This is totally possible. Like I said before, can't have too much faith in beat-reporters. They can be clueless.

[Valhalla74]

The Niners have a solid receiving core already - who gets bumped out for Pettis to rise?

[Vcize]

The reporter is reading an awful lot into the plays and it doesn't sound like he's being outmuscled. Maybe he's scared, maybe he just knew he couldn't catch it.

My point is that it indicates he's soft. Softness and lack of play-strength typically go together. But it's worse to be soft than to simply have below-average play-strength, because the latter guy might still have heart and will.

As for being out-muscled, that'll happen starting in training-camp.

The clean release from press mentioned is good, but one rep doesn't mean much because a WR in the NFL needs a more than one technique in his toolbox to earn a clean release; if he has only one, the DB will know how to stop it after the first time.

Take Cedrick Wilson from this year's class, for example. College production, passer-rating analytics and proficient route-tree makes him seem like a great prospect. But he fell to late Day 3 because he has one and only one decent technique for beating press (a good rocker step), and struggles with man-coverage due to insufficient play-strength. Pettis is like a shorter version of Wilson with better hands and more special-teams value.

But doesn't the fact that Pettis didn't fall to day 3 (and in fact went very early on day 2) indicate they don't have those same concerns (at least not to the same extent) for him? I know you mentioned special teams inflated his draft capital but all the talk from the 9ers coaches so far has been about him as a receiver. Granted, coach speak this time of year doesn't necessarily mean a ton but can't this be a DJax/AB situation where they liked him both as a returner AND a receiver?

He pops off the page as a receiver to me. Not just for his quickness but for his skill. His body control, awareness, contested catches, and natural hands remind me a lot of DeAndre Hopkins. Of course that is only one part of Hopkins game and Hopkins is much thicker, but point is I think he has that natural football ability that a lot of coaches think they can teach to more raw WRs but usually can't.

[Snake]

Worth mentioning that SF traded up to get Pettis. Clearly he was a target for them and they felt he had already fallen too far as an early 2nd round pick.

[ninotoreS]

But doesn't the fact that Pettis didn't fall to day 3 (and in fact went very early on day 2) indicate they don't have those same concerns (at least not to the same extent) for him? I know you mentioned special teams inflated his draft capital but all the talk from the 9ers coaches so far has been about him as a receiver. Granted, coach speak this time of year doesn't necessarily mean a ton but can't this be a DJax/AB situation where they liked him both as a returner AND a receiver?

He pops off the page as a receiver to me. Not just for his quickness but for his skill. His body control, awareness, contested catches, and natural hands remind me a lot of DeAndre Hopkins. Of course that is only one part of Hopkins game and Hopkins is much thicker, but point is I think he has that natural football ability that a lot of coaches think they can teach to more raw WRs but usually can't.

I certainly think it's not nothing that the Niners traded up to select Pettis with a nice 2nd round pick.

But I have to emphasize again that his special-teams value surely played a big part with that. Pettis was freaky as a punt returner. He had nine punt return touchdowns in college, four in his final season and averaged 20 yards a return! That's crazy. There is no doubt in my mind that his special-teams ability bumped him up at least one round.

For reference, consider that Devin Hester was less impressive a returner in college than Pettis, and he was taken in the 2nd round of his draft exclusively thanks to his returner ability (he caught ten total passes in college). NFL teams value impact punt and kick returners, and history proves some are willing to spend a Day 2 pick on that merit alone.

[austing]

Anthony Miller

[whodunnit]

But doesn't the fact that Pettis didn't fall to day 3 (and in fact went very early on day 2) indicate they don't have those same concerns (at least not to the same extent) for him? I know you mentioned special teams inflated his draft capital but all the talk from the 9ers coaches so far has been about him as a receiver. Granted, coach speak this time of year doesn't necessarily mean a ton but can't this be a DJax/AB situation where they liked him both as a returner AND a receiver?

He pops off the page as a receiver to me. Not just for his quickness but for his skill. His body control, awareness, contested catches, and natural hands remind me a lot of DeAndre Hopkins. Of course that is only one part of Hopkins game and Hopkins is much thicker, but point is I think he has that natural football ability that a lot of coaches think they can teach to more raw WRs but usually can't.

I certainly think it's not nothing that the Niners traded up to select Pettis with a nice 2nd round pick.

But I have to emphasize again that his special-teams value surely played a big part with that. Pettis was freaky as a punt returner. He had nine punt return touchdowns in college, four in his final season and averaged 20 yards a return! That's crazy. There is no doubt in my mind that his special-teams ability bumped him up at least one round.

For reference, consider that Devin Hester was less impressive a returner in college than Pettis, and he was taken in the 2nd round of his draft exclusively thanks to his returner ability (he caught ten total passes in college). NFL teams value impact punt and kick returners, and history proves some are willing to spend a Day 2 pick on that merit alone.

not to de-rail this thread, but wasn't Hester primarily a DB in college with some WR reps, not the other way around, so the 10 receptions wouldn't be completely crazy.

now to answer the question, I personally prefer Gallup to Pettis, but think both will have solid careers. Offensively speaking, I think Gallup has more upside, but Pettis will be better (obviously) for leagues that factor in return yardage. Landing spot is good for both and I see them both contributing from week 1; Pettis just may start out on special teams and be worked into the offense, whereas Gallup I believe will be a week 1 starter for the Cowboys.

[ninotoreS]

not to de-rail this thread, but wasn't Hester primarily a DB in college with some WR reps, not the other way around, so the 10 receptions wouldn't be completely crazy.

According to this, Hester also only had 11 total tackles in college. And five interceptions, somehow, despite rarely tackling? And he blocked a field goal once.

Bizarre.

edit: Found another database (Miami U's) that says he had 17 tackles in 2004, so apparently the total for his collegiate DB work comes to 28 tackles and 5 interceptions in three seasons. According to Miami U's website, he didn't play any defense in 2004. Sounds like he was as infrequently used as a DB as he was a WR, but evidently he was weirdly good at getting picks.

[ninotoreS]

bump:

I'm warming to Pettis now. Had to dig a bit into the tape, but I'm starting to see it.

He's got to improve play-strength, though, by a lot. I'm still firm on that.

[Ice]

Not close IMO.

The film on Gallup is outstanding and one reason PFF also rates him top WR. His route running coming into the league looks a lot like A. Brown to my eye. Like Brown looked out of school, Gallup plays way faster than his 40 time ( which is fine ) due to superior route quickness coming out of breaks off either foot. His back shoulder catch ability already looks elite and this type route is a key separator between good a great players. He has a legit shot to be a rising star by 2019.

FYI not saying he will ever be A. Brown but the tools to succeed at a high level in the NFL jump off the page.

Dallas stole this player IMO. Miller would be a closer call IMO.

[Jfever]

Gallup - due to situation/opportunity

How is it better than Pettis’?

He isn't in a "better" situation that Pettis. Not sure why people think this.

Dak isn't the qb some think he is. Sure there is a void there in Dallas as far as the wr corp. But... There is much more to it than that. Running team. This Dallas team will go as far as Zeke can take them. So, they won't make the playoffs is what I'm saying. Dak is average at best, meaning - Poor accuracy, and no anticipation. Jimmy G is simply the better / more talented passing qb.

Give me Gallup in a vacuum, Give me Pettis if you consider situation.

[ninotoreS]

The comparison I'm starting to see with Pettis is a skinnier Reggie Wayne coming out of Miami.

Bear in mind, a 185lb Reggie Wayne probably never would've been nearly as good a pro as the 200lbs Reggie Wayne.

The film on Gallup is outstanding and one reason PFF also rates him top WR. His route running coming into the league looks a lot like A. Brown to my eye. Like Brown looked out of school, Gallup plays way faster than his 40 time ( which is fine ) due to superior route quickness coming out of breaks off either foot.

I like Gallup and voted for him here, but comparing his route running to Brown's coming out is nonsense. Gallup doesn't get a lot separation, which is why his above-average contested catch ability is important. Now, he is usually 'on time' with his route schedule and doesn't get redirected, which means he's usually right where the QB expects him to be, and that is indeed very valuable in a receiver, but route-craft akin to a technician like Brown? Nah, man.

Gallup was noted by scouts all Senior Bowl for failing to earn much separation. It's probably why he dropped to round 3.