pettis or gallup?

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.

rookie wr

pettis
40
38%
gallup
66
62%
 
Total votes: 106

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Snake
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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby Snake » Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 pm

I think I’m going to name my team after Pettis

Rex Ryan’s Foot Pettis

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby WhatWouldDitkaDo » Thu May 24, 2018 1:23 pm

Snake wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 12:56 pm
I think I’m going to name my team after Pettis

Rex Ryan’s Foot Pettis
:clap:
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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby Ice » Thu May 24, 2018 1:32 pm

JFever wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:11 am
thebeast wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:06 pm
azthecrow wrote:
Thu May 17, 2018 8:02 pm
Gallup - due to situation/opportunity
How is it better than Pettis’?
He isn't in a "better" situation that Pettis. Not sure why people think this.

Dak isn't the qb some think he is. Sure there is a void there in Dallas as far as the wr corp. But... There is much more to it than that. Running team. This Dallas team will go as far as Zeke can take them. So, they won't make the playoffs is what I'm saying. Dak is average at best, meaning - Poor accuracy, and no anticipation. Jimmy G is simply the better / more talented passing qb.

Give me Gallup in a vacuum, Give me Pettis if you consider situation.
Have to disagree a bit with the above assessment.

Dak is much better than some think he is:

His QBR is outstanding even with his relatively slow WR's last year, a left tackle playing injured most of the year not to mention a 6 game Zeke suspension. While his numbers were not what they were as a rookie he still finished 4th in the league last year in this stat which is an effective measurement.

Zeke missed 6 games last season and a healthy line will only help the running and passing game. While Dallas loves to run the football they still pass it 50% of the time which equates to around 500 attempts (493 last season). San Fran as an example threw it 607 times last season but then again they played from behind a lot. Expect those attempts to drop as this team is improving and like all good teams, seek balance.

Attempts and WR production really doesn't correlate very well.

Houston 525 attempts
Atlanta 530
Vikings 527
New Orleans 536
Cincy 510

Dallas is a 50/50 team no doubt. They have been for 2 straight years and that trend should continue. Production of any WR is typically a function of the targets and conversion rate of those 500 passing attempts. Zeke drawing safeties in the box helps the passing game a lot, it doesn't hurt.

Garapolo did have a 67.4 completion percentage in his play last year but his TD to INT ratio was 7-5
Dak's career is 65.2 completion percentage and his TD to INT is 45-17

Both look to be good QB's but waaaay to early to claim Garapolo is better by a long shot. Both have plenty of room to improve although Dak's QBR ranked 3rd and 4th in the League the last 2 seasons. The only QB better when combining the last 2 seasons was Brady who finished 2nd and 3rd.

Both WR's also have talent in their own right. Time will tell who ultimately steps up and shines at this level.

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby Jason3123 » Thu May 24, 2018 1:48 pm

Pettis is too thin for me. If you're going to be 185 pounds you need to have 4.3 speed. Pettis was an awesome college receiver but I don't see the upside in San Fran. Not strong enough or fast enough to warrant high targets. Did score a lot of touchdowns though and was an awesome returner so I won't be shocked if he succeeds. Plus strong QB/Coach combo.

But Gallup has proper size and his skill set fits with Dak and the way the Cowboys are going. Lots of red flags with him too, but putting both players in a vacuum, I think Gallup will be the more productive long-term WR. I still believe the 49ers future #1 is to be acquired, probably in next year's loaded class where Shanahan can draft his productive X receiver. Gallup could be the #1 WR on the low volume Cowboys offense, which may cap his ceiling.

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby Ice » Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:09 am
The comparison I'm starting to see with Pettis is a skinnier Reggie Wayne coming out of Miami.

Bear in mind, a 185lb Reggie Wayne probably never would've been nearly as good a pro as the 200lbs Reggie Wayne.
Ice wrote:
Wed May 23, 2018 11:39 pm
The film on Gallup is outstanding and one reason PFF also rates him top WR. His route running coming into the league looks a lot like A. Brown to my eye. Like Brown looked out of school, Gallup plays way faster than his 40 time ( which is fine ) due to superior route quickness coming out of breaks off either foot.
I like Gallup and voted for him here, but comparing his route running to Brown's coming out is nonsense. Gallup doesn't get a lot separation, which is why his above-average contested catch ability is important. Now, he is usually 'on time' with his route schedule and doesn't get redirected, which means he's usually right where the QB expects him to be, and that is indeed very valuable in a receiver, but route-craft akin to a technician like Brown? Nah, man.

Gallup was noted by scouts all Senior Bowl for failing to earn much separation. It's probably why he dropped to round 3.
Tried to make it clear I was not comparing him to Brown at this point but if you go back and watch college film you may change your mind a bit. Brown was a very good route runner even though he fell to the 6th round. We all like to see Brown as one of the very best but the reality is he developed very well. Gallup shows similar traits in certain skill sets.

You can say it's nonsense but the reality when one studies tape at the same point in time I would contend the traits are similar.
Brown is vastly better today and its pretty obvious the scouts blew it back then. While brown was dinged quite a bit for his route running coming out the cut ability off either foot was there. Many scouts breakdown players a lot differently these days. No doubt Brown is a great technician today, coming out he was not considered that. Both were dinged due to competition level in college.

Both of these players will need to put in a ton of work to develop which is what the teams hope for above all else. Brown obviously put in the work but coming out he was not considered special by the vast majority of the fantasy community.

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby turcorox911 » Sat May 26, 2018 7:10 pm

I'd go Pettis because he has a better QB throwing to him, in a more offensive friendly system. Cowboys will be run-first for sure.

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby Valhalla » Sat May 26, 2018 9:08 pm

ninotoreS wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 5:44 pm
Vcize wrote:
Fri May 18, 2018 11:36 am
But doesn't the fact that Pettis didn't fall to day 3 (and in fact went very early on day 2) indicate they don't have those same concerns (at least not to the same extent) for him? I know you mentioned special teams inflated his draft capital but all the talk from the 9ers coaches so far has been about him as a receiver. Granted, coach speak this time of year doesn't necessarily mean a ton but can't this be a DJax/AB situation where they liked him both as a returner AND a receiver?

He pops off the page as a receiver to me. Not just for his quickness but for his skill. His body control, awareness, contested catches, and natural hands remind me a lot of DeAndre Hopkins. Of course that is only one part of Hopkins game and Hopkins is much thicker, but point is I think he has that natural football ability that a lot of coaches think they can teach to more raw WRs but usually can't.
I certainly think it's not nothing that the Niners traded up to select Pettis with a nice 2nd round pick.

But I have to emphasize again that his special-teams value surely played a big part with that. Pettis was freaky as a punt returner. He had nine punt return touchdowns in college, four in his final season and averaged 20 yards a return! That's crazy. There is no doubt in my mind that his special-teams ability bumped him up at least one round.

For reference, consider that Devin Hester was less impressive a returner in college than Pettis, and he was taken in the 2nd round of his draft exclusively thanks to his returner ability (he caught ten total passes in college). NFL teams value impact punt and kick returners, and history proves some are willing to spend a Day 2 pick on that merit alone.
Solid points

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Re: pettis or gallup?

Postby berserkers » Sat May 26, 2018 10:38 pm

    Jason3123 wrote:
    Thu May 24, 2018 1:48 pm
    Pettis is too thin for me...I still believe the 49ers future #1 is to be acquired, probably in next year's loaded class where Shanahan can draft his productive X receiver. Gallup could be the #1 WR on the low volume Cowboys offense, which may cap his ceiling.
    I agree. Really enjoyed Pettis' highlights but he's not going to be a wr1. He'll be used all over the field for a certain number of snaps, plus on PR, but he won't start over Garçon, Goodwin or Taylor.

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    Re: pettis or gallup?

    Postby Weeman » Sun May 27, 2018 9:39 am

    Gallup & this is only a topic because of situation.

    Both talented but Gallup all day.

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    Re: pettis or gallup?

    Postby knotts4372 » Sun May 27, 2018 9:44 am

    im a 49ers fan and hate the cowboys but gimme gallup over pettis all day easily. idk what ppl see in pettis really
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    Re: pettis or gallup?

    Postby ninotoreS » Sun May 27, 2018 11:32 am

    So what do y'all think of the rumor that the reason the Niners traded up to select Pettis was because they figured out the Packers were gonna select him at 2.13?

    Cheeseheads deny it, but of course they do. The Packers did invite Pettis for a visit pre-draft, and their three WR selections later in the draft seem to be questionable, as if they had to scramble for fallback choices at a position of obvious need.
    Ice wrote:
    Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm
    but if you go back and watch college film you may change your mind a bit
    I rarely post firm declarations of opinion here at all without having already watched tape first. Gallup was one of the first WRs from this class I completed study on.

    Gallup rarely got redirected by DBs in his route-schedule and his QB trusted him because he was usually where he was supposed to be, when he was supposed to be. Those traits --- and they're very good traits for the NFL transition for sure -- have some overlap with Brown, but the similarities stop there.

    Unlike Gallup, Brown was stat suppressed in college, as his college coaches did not even try to use him vertically -- they saw his height and immediately niched him with a low-depth-of-target possession-receiver role. This restricted his demonstrated route-tree and created a false perception that he was raw there.

    The ease with which Brown gained separation against all coverage types at Central Michigan in the restrained role he was used foreshadowed what he would do as a pro. Note that as soon as his second year in the pros, he averaged 16 yards a catch and was prolific running nines, posts, and corner routes before anything else. It was a total 180 from his college usage (he averaged 10 ypr in college).

    Brown combined a lethal combination of quickness off the line and dynamic 'on-demand' route speed (a trait that only shows up on tape) to get open whenever he wanted, even before his demonstrated route-tree was complete. Gallup does not show these traits, which are essential to Antonio Brown being Antonio Brown.
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    Re: pettis or gallup?

    Postby Ice » Sun May 27, 2018 12:42 pm

    ninotoreS wrote:
    Sun May 27, 2018 11:32 am
    So what do y'all think of the rumor that the reason the Niners traded up to select Pettis was because they figured out the Packers were gonna select him at 2.13?

    Cheeseheads deny it, but of course they do. The Packers did invite Pettis for a visit pre-draft, and their three WR selections later in the draft seem to be questionable, as if they had to scramble for fallback choices at a position of obvious need.
    Ice wrote:
    Thu May 24, 2018 1:50 pm
    but if you go back and watch college film you may change your mind a bit
    I rarely post firm declarations of opinion here at all without having already watched tape first. Gallup was one of the first WRs from this class I completed study on.

    Gallup rarely got redirected by DBs in his route-schedule and his QB trusted him because he was usually where he was supposed to be, when he was supposed to be. Those traits --- and they're very good traits for the NFL transition for sure -- have some overlap with Brown, but the similarities stop there.

    Unlike Gallup, Brown was stat suppressed in college, as his college coaches did not even try to use him vertically -- they saw his height and immediately niched him with a low-depth-of-target possession-receiver role. This restricted his demonstrated route-tree and created a false perception that he was raw there.

    The ease with which Brown gained separation against all coverage types at Central Michigan in the restrained role he was used foreshadowed what he would do as a pro. Note that as soon as his second year in the pros, he averaged 16 yards a catch and was prolific running nines, posts, and corner routes before anything else. It was a total 180 from his college usage (he averaged 10 ypr in college).

    Brown combined a lethal combination of quickness off the line and dynamic 'on-demand' route speed (a trait that only shows up on tape) to get open whenever he wanted, even before his demonstrated route-tree was complete. Gallup does not show these traits, which are essential to Antonio Brown being Antonio Brown.
    All that sounds good on Brown until one weighs the fact he fell to the 6th round. I have been studying players for 0ver 30 years now and while everyone missed on Brown for the most part coming out including me, someone I respect as a talent evaluator selected him I think at 1.4 in a fantasy league which by all standards was a reach.

    Instead of laughing at him I asked him how he evaluating him. He simply said from the ground up and gave me a few things to notice on cuts from both directions. Brown actually changed the way I evaluate WR's and I expect he changed the way a few professional scouts look at players.

    I get we may evaluate players differently. However, I disagree strongly on route speed, Gallup was a beast last season. The one stat that really stands out and goes to quickness; Gallup had 18 forced missed tackles after the catch.

    As for the Pettis rumor, it could be true. The Packers are really lacking team speed. With the emergence of Goodwin and his new contract, San Fran needed to replace that team speed on special teams and Pettis fits the bill as a returner since at Goodwin's price he will not be out there. I do like him but he is really slight of build for a WR with his length. Like his short area quickness more than long speed. He needs to get bigger and stronger I think to develop into a legit WR1 some day.

    BTW, pretty sure Brown very solid numbers in college but his YPC was less for sure which goes to vertical patterns.


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