Jordan Matthews???

[ArrylT]

I went in detail on this in the team advice forum...but I just find it interesting how you pump up Malcolm Mitchell despite the massive red flags surrounding the health of his knee but use it to temper expectations on JMatt. If you look at both in a vacuum I think it's pretty clear which one you should be more concerned about (which I explained elsewhere if you want to go read it).

I'd be interested. Can you link the page or give me the title of the thread?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=158071&start=15

thread in team advice section

[btv802]

I went in detail on this in the team advice forum...but I just find it interesting how you pump up Malcolm Mitchell despite the massive red flags surrounding the health of his knee but use it to temper expectations on JMatt. If you look at both in a vacuum I think it's pretty clear which one you should be more concerned about (which I explained elsewhere if you want to go read it).

I'd be interested. Can you link the page or give me the title of the thread?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=158071&start=15

thread in team advice section

That's the one. I'm no doctor but just dug into Mitchell's history of knee problems a little and it's not great.

These contract details don't shine a very positive light on JMatt's situation either though...JMatt may be more broken than I realize

[Oddball456]

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-p ... -117129996

Main reason why Matthews signed with Patriots perhaps.

Says he also had "offers from Arizona, Green Bay and Tennessee". Given the contract, isn't it about the league minimum? Why not go to GB instead with Rodgers throwing him the ball for several years instead of Brady?

[btv802]

Says he also had "offers from Arizona, Green Bay and Tennessee". Given the contract, isn't it about the league minimum? Why not go to GB instead with Rodgers throwing him the ball for several years instead of Brady?

I'm sure the source is his agent so taken with a grain of salt, but if it's true...my guess is he saw a weaker WR depth chart in NE with a team that places emphasis on the short passing game which suits JMatt. Not sure he would have necessarily received long term offers from any of those teams either TBH.

[myndflyte]

https://247sports.com/nfl/new-england-p ... -117129996

Main reason why Matthews signed with Patriots perhaps.

Says he also had "offers from Arizona, Green Bay and Tennessee". Given the contract, isn't it about the league minimum? Why not go to GB instead with Rodgers throwing him the ball for several years instead of Brady?

Probably because the Patriots actually make it to Super Bowls and if he thinks he only has a few years left, the Patriots is probably the best place to finally get a ring.

[ArrylT]

https://nesn.com/2018/04/resetting-patr ... s-signing/

Going to be interesting to see which 6 survive if what is said is correct about Patriots keeping a max of 6 + Slater (currently 9 + special teams ace Slater). A lot will certainly depend on Mitchells health, and the others comfort level after a full off-season.

Also yeah I dont know if what I shared above is the main reason Matthews signed with Patriots - hence perhaps - obviously we dont know what the other contracts being offered were like. Guess its also a bet on yourself type thing and this was the best situation for him to bet on himself before hoping to get a stronger contract next year.

[ninotoreS]

Comparing JMatt’s season with rookie Wentz to Alshon’s most recent season with Wentz.

JM: 117tar, 73rec, 804yds, 3TDs
AJ: 120tar, 57rec, 789yds, 9TDs

Faulty comparison for a few reasons, most notably that Matthews and Jeffery are an apple and an orange in terms of role:

- Jeffery played with a torn rotator cuff all or most of the season (I'm unsure if it was all 16 games or not)
- Jeffery faced the most difficult shadow cornerback schedule in the league last season, and maybe of the last few NFL seasons
- Matthews has been slot-only and Jeffery is a typical perimeter WR

Agholor and Ertz in '17 were running the routes and getting the targets that had been Matthews' purview with Ertz in '16. Matthews and Ertz were working between the hashmarks together while Matthews was in Philly. Neither had much overlap with the usage of outside WRs, which is what Jeffery is, of course. Agholor in '16 struggled to be an outside WR. Taking over the Matthews slot role in '17, Agholor performed similarly.

A more relevant production comparison would be Matthews and Ertz in '16 vs Agholor and Ertz in '17. A more relevant comparison for Jeffery and Torrey Smith in '17 is Agholor and Green-Beckham in '16.

[ninotoreS]

I vote that the reason Matthews signed with New England is because 1.) he was only getting minimum offers regardless 2.) in New England, pint-sized slot-man Edelman is 32 in a month and coming off a major injury.

The comparative depth-chart prospect for Matthews is much worse in GB compared to the other places, and with Arizona and Tennessee, I'm guessing it did basically come down to a choice between Brady and Bradford/Mariota.

[Jfever]

1. NE plays in a very weak division. Not so true about the other teams he was getting offers from. This basically gives them a very good chance year in and year out to win their division, and a first round bye is more likely than it isn't.
2. Depth chart is wide open. Edleman is 32 and coming off ACL
3. If all offers were fairly low and similar, why not go with the best chance to advance in playoffs, and fit into a role that your skill set is well suited for.

I don't see this as a knock. Strange that it can and does get spun that way imo.

[btv802]

Comparing JMatt’s season with rookie Wentz to Alshon’s most recent season with Wentz.

JM: 117tar, 73rec, 804yds, 3TDs
AJ: 120tar, 57rec, 789yds, 9TDs

Faulty comparison for a few reasons, most notably that Matthews and Jeffery are an apple and an orange in terms of role:

- Jeffery played with a torn rotator cuff all or most of the season (I'm unsure if it was all 16 games or not)
- Jeffery faced the most difficult shadow cornerback schedule in the league last season, and maybe of the last few NFL seasons
- Matthews has been slot-only and Jeffery is a typical perimeter WR

Agholor and Ertz in '17 were running the routes and getting the targets that had been Matthews' purview with Ertz in '16. Matthews and Ertz were working between the hashmarks together while Matthews was in Philly. Neither had much overlap with the usage of outside WRs, which is what Jeffery is, of course. Agholor in '16 struggled to be an outside WR. Taking over the Matthews slot role in '17, Agholor performed similarly.

A more relevant production comparison would be Matthews and Ertz in '16 vs Agholor and Ertz in '17. A more relevant comparison for Jeffery and Torrey Smith in '17 is Agholor and Green-Beckham in '16.

I know it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison and you make a lot of good points that I agree with but simply didn't take the time to suss out. It was less of a direct comparison of the two players and how they win. More just a reminder that prior to last season Matthews was a productive player on nearly the same level as Jeffrey, albeit succeeding in different ways and certainly facing different challenges.

Just some counter points to what you said.

• Matthews played through knee and ankle injuries in 2016 that were apparently mis-diagnosed by the Eagles

• Matthews was playing with rookie Wentz who struggled to throw TDs in a new offense with a new HC, not MVP level Wentz who led the league in passing TDs before his injury

• Matthews out-targeted and out-played Agholor both years they were teammates with same level of QB play

[FantasyFreak]

Comparing JMatt’s season with rookie Wentz to Alshon’s most recent season with Wentz.

JM: 117tar, 73rec, 804yds, 3TDs
AJ: 120tar, 57rec, 789yds, 9TDs

Faulty comparison for a few reasons, most notably that Matthews and Jeffery are an apple and an orange in terms of role:

- Jeffery played with a torn rotator cuff all or most of the season (I'm unsure if it was all 16 games or not)
- Jeffery faced the most difficult shadow cornerback schedule in the league last season, and maybe of the last few NFL seasons
- Matthews has been slot-only and Jeffery is a typical perimeter WR

Agholor and Ertz in '17 were running the routes and getting the targets that had been Matthews' purview with Ertz in '16. Matthews and Ertz were working between the hashmarks together while Matthews was in Philly. Neither had much overlap with the usage of outside WRs, which is what Jeffery is, of course. Agholor in '16 struggled to be an outside WR. Taking over the Matthews slot role in '17, Agholor performed similarly.

A more relevant production comparison would be Matthews and Ertz in '16 vs Agholor and Ertz in '17. A more relevant comparison for Jeffery and Torrey Smith in '17 is Agholor and Green-Beckham in '16.

I know it's not a perfect apples to apples comparison and you make a lot of good points that I agree with but simply didn't take the time to suss out. It was less of a direct comparison of the two players and how they win. More just a reminder that prior to last season Matthews was a productive player on nearly the same level as Jeffrey, albeit succeeding in different ways and certainly facing different challenges.

Just some counter points to what you said.

• Matthews played through knee and ankle injuries in 2016 that were apparently mis-diagnosed by the Eagles[/list]
  • Matthews was playing with rookie Wentz who struggled to throw TDs in a new offense with a new HC, not MVP level Wentz who led the league in passing TDs before his injury
  • Matthews out-targeted and out-played Agholor both years they were teammates with same level of QB play

This is the biggest point of contention, and unfortunately, it looks to be a career threatening blunder for JMatt that the Eagles made.

[ArrylT]

https://www.buffalorumblings.com/2018/5 ... ball-focus

https://nesn.com/2018/05/patriots-notes ... 17-season/

Couple of interesting J. Matthew posts

[DLF3000]

It's going to be hard reading what's going on at WR for the Pats early this year. Might require an extraordinary amount of patience to hold him this year until/if he pops.

[Jason3123]

Seems inevitable he flashes in New England. Doubtful you'll be able to start him very often, as I imagine he'll have numerous weeks where he's essentially invisible, but I could also see several games where he pops because that's what the Pats do. Earlier this off-season a Pats beat guy said he would play the Aaron Hernandez role.

[ninotoreS]

Aaron Hernandez played as a true H-back that ran routes out of the backfield in addition to his snaps out wide, so that beat guy might be clueless.