Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

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ArrylT
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby ArrylT » Sat Feb 24, 2018 5:16 pm

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... -people-up

Recent article. Doesnt seem like Dez has much interest in leaving Dallas.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby thebeast » Sat Feb 24, 2018 6:48 pm

I wonder what it would look like with Dak throwing balls to Julio... I bet it wouldn’t be pretty.

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:48 pm

I’m telling you guys and I know there’s plenty of other Cowboys fans that watch every play, every game too but if you watch the Cowboys this season, yes Dez regressed, like most do when they are 28-29 but Dak “definitely” played a decent part too. In Dak’s rookie season, everything worked great, the o-line, Zeke was unreal, he always seemed to have Beasley open as an outlet. The running game didn’t click as well as it did last season for various reasons, injuries, Zeke’s susp, etc. defenses played Beasley a lot different, shutting him down in various games which took Dak’s security blanket away, I also think the Cowboys didn’t make enough adjustments to help Dak but that’s a different story. Why in the world they don’t use Dez more on slants, curl routes etc., is beyond me. Anyway, this whole Dez thing has been way over-blown, imo.

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby lukkynumber13 » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:47 pm

Cowboysfan33 wrote: Sat Feb 24, 2018 8:48 pm I’m telling you guys and I know there’s plenty of other Cowboys fans that watch every play, every game too but if you watch the Cowboys this season, yes Dez regressed, like most do when they are 28-29 but Dak “definitely” played a decent part too. In Dak’s rookie season, everything worked great, the o-line, Zeke was unreal, he always seemed to have Beasley open as an outlet. The running game didn’t click as well as it did last season for various reasons, injuries, Zeke’s susp, etc. defenses played Beasley a lot different, shutting him down in various games which took Dak’s security blanket away, I also think the Cowboys didn’t make enough adjustments to help Dak but that’s a different story. Why in the world they don’t use Dez more on slants, curl routes etc., is beyond me. Anyway, this whole Dez thing has been way over-blown, imo.
Very well said

Watching Dak play like an overly cautious little you-know-what was maddening all season.
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Factory of Sadness » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:41 am

I think some people on here have a pretty strange idea of what constitutes open for a big WR. If you sat down Romo, Brees, Brady, Ben et al and asked them how often Dez was 'open' on that film I think they'd tell you it was most of the time. What stands out to me is how little pressure Dak is under on most of those throws. He has a clean pocket, time to pick his spot and just keeps throwing crappy balls.

Dez had a bunch of drops, but he was pretty much as 'open' as he used to be for Romo. I don't like the Cowboys scheme or the rest of the WR group, but although not quite the armchair ride of last year, there were a lot of easy NFL throws missed on that tape. Try watching it and don't imagine Brady is throwing the ball, because that's not fair, but picture Goff, Jimmy G or what the hell, playoff Nick Foles. Were Jeffrey or Clement any more open than that? I think things could get very interesting in Dallas because I don't think Dak is who the Cowboys have convinced themselves he is.

If the Cowboys move on from Dez then depending on landing spot I am going to be buying all the Dez I can.

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Vcize » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:49 am

Factory of Sadness wrote: Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:41 am I think some people on here have a pretty strange idea of what constitutes open for a big WR. If you sat down Romo, Brees, Brady, Ben et al and asked them how often Dez was 'open' on that film I think they'd tell you it was most of the time. What stands out to me is how little pressure Dak is under on most of those throws. He has a clean pocket, time to pick his spot and just keeps throwing crappy balls.

Dez had a bunch of drops, but he was pretty much as 'open' as he used to be for Romo. I don't like the Cowboys scheme or the rest of the WR group, but although not quite the armchair ride of last year, there were a lot of easy NFL throws missed on that tape. Try watching it and don't imagine Brady is throwing the ball, because that's not fair, but picture Goff, Jimmy G or what the hell, playoff Nick Foles. Were Jeffrey or Clement any more open than that? I think things could get very interesting in Dallas because I don't think Dak is who the Cowboys have convinced themselves he is.

If the Cowboys move on from Dez then depending on landing spot I am going to be buying all the Dez I can.
Jeffery had just as unproductive of a fantasy season as Dez did. Just because fantasy players have grown some weird fondness for a crappy WR3 season in his case doesn't mean he's much better.

Like I said, those plays work in a pinch but Julio Jones isn't putting up 1400 yards by bodying people up or winning jump balls. He's supplementing a bunch of plays where he gets separation with the occasional body up or jump ball.

Alshon just played on a top 5 offense with a top 5 QB and failed to put up a single 100 yard receiving game on his way to a WR25 ppg finish. So if that's the upside for Dez then I don't think it's what you're really looking for.

Sure I'd buy dez at his current value if I knew he was headed to a new team just as a dart throw. He's cheap enough for that but it's still just a dart throw. And given that odds are on him NOT leaving dak yet, that makes it a little less appealing.
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Jfever » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:24 am

I'm left wondering how someone with fantasy experience can come to the conclusion and have a strong opinion on it that it is Dez that is at fault and it isn't Dak and play calling that is of primary blame for the reduction of production. It is quite perplexing.... I suggest that the folks that comented on this that Dez is in a huge decline and his regression is his fault - watch the youtube clip that was shared on page one of the thread.
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:45 am

JFever wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:24 am I'm left wondering how someone with fantasy experience can come to the conclusion and have a strong opinion on it that it is Dez that is at fault and it isn't Dak and play calling that is of primary blame for the reduction of production. It is quite perplexing.... I suggest that the folks that comented on this that Dez is in a huge decline and his regression is his fault - watch the youtube clip that was shared on page one of the thread.
Exactly. It happened in several games too. They just don’t have the chemistry that Romo-Dez had and obviously that takes time but as much as I like Dak, he might be more of top 12-15 real life QB, not talking fantasy, instead of a top 5 QB that Cowboys fans hoped for. I want to be wrong and there’s a lot that I like about Dak but once this “narrative” came about, basically blaming all of this on Dez, that’s crazy to me, if you watch the games.

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby nathanq42 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:27 am

https://youtu.be/RznFr8cNlzU

Dak is a game manager, makes the safe plays, but he is nothing special in terms of arm talent.

In the video he was standing a yard or two closer to all of the targets it missed horribly, and got dominated by a retired pedestrian QB.

I know it qas just for fun but c'mon man... That looked rough to say the least.

Dak missed a target that couldn't have been more than 6 or 7 yards away...
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby ArrylT » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:31 am

I think it is great that David Carr still has that touch on his passes - it just looked so effortless for him. In Daks defence he was wearing a bulky hoodie and seemed to be rushing the throws (imo).
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Jfever » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:43 am

A bulky hoodie dang well better not be an excuse for a guy making the money Dak is making. I'd assume shoulder pads, a tight jersey, and a helmet would be more of a hindrance... The more I read these threads on a variety of different topics (not just this one), it seems to me likely that people see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe - despite overwhelming observable evidence to the contrary. Although, I'm not sure where the motivating factor of wanting to believe that Dez is in significant decline and Dak being blameless would come from other than ownership bias, or lack of ownership. Seems strange to me. I watched just a few Cowboys games closely last season and it was quite clear to me that Dak isn't a qb with a ton of touch or vision. Although, I did see a few drops on catch-able balls by Dez, it seemed to me to be part of a cause / effect result. ie; Dez just didn't all the sudden start to suck people.... That typically doesn't happen. And, 28-29-30 is a time in which elite WR are still at or in their peak. It isn't the end like it is for rb.

Bottom line is, it is just not true. And... I'm one that cares about what is and isn't true. The truth seems to be (as would be expected) somewhere in the middle and in that grey area. Dak is not accurate. He doesn't anticipate well and when pressured, he is worse. Dez has shown that he can be an elite wr1 in real life and in fantasy. Has he lost a step. Probably, but, it is understood that straight line speed was never Dez's greatest attribute. Has he had issues with drops - Yes, he has. So have a many top level wr's. Without looking it up, HOF - T.O. comes to mind as does Brandon Marshall from a few years back... I'd say that in this particular case - it is quite clear that Dak, the play calling, and route's being called - is much more to blame when it comes to Dez's reduced production than Dez himself is. I have a hard time seeing it in a different light and, i've tried hard to see the point from the other side.
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby clarion contrarion » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:56 am

it has been a few years since dez was a real one and for me he was always better for fantasy than in real life , romo got the most out of him and had the freedom and experience to throw lots of 50/50 balls where as dak plays it closer to the vest as biys want to run it more for good reason . Having a quality Oline , stud rb and to protect the flimsy defense . I sold my only 3 prior to 2015 for 3 1sts and haven't looked back . Lucked out out with perfect timing thus far it appears. It is past time for boys to add a new wr1 although dez's pride may not allow him to sublimate to a new big dog .
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Feb 26, 2018 1:08 pm

JFever wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:43 am A bulky hoodie dang well better not be an excuse for a guy making the money Dak is making. I'd assume shoulder pads, a tight jersey, and a helmet would be more of a hindrance... The more I read these threads on a variety of different topics (not just this one), it seems to me likely that people see what they want to see, and believe what they want to believe - despite overwhelming observable evidence to the contrary. Although, I'm not sure where the motivating factor of wanting to believe that Dez is in significant decline and Dak being blameless would come from other than ownership bias, or lack of ownership. Seems strange to me. I watched just a few Cowboys games closely last season and it was quite clear to me that Dak isn't a qb with a ton of touch or vision. Although, I did see a few drops on catch-able balls by Dez, it seemed to me to be part of a cause / effect result. ie; Dez just didn't all the sudden start to suck people.... That typically doesn't happen. And, 28-29-30 is a time in which elite WR are still at or in their peak. It isn't the end like it is for rb.

Bottom line is, it is just not true. And... I'm one that cares about what is and isn't true. The truth seems to be (as would be expected) somewhere in the middle and in that grey area. Dak is not accurate. He doesn't anticipate well and when pressured, he is worse. Dez has shown that he can be an elite wr1 in real life and in fantasy. Has he lost a step. Probably, but, it is understood that straight line speed was never Dez's greatest attribute. Has he had issues with drops - Yes, he has. So have a many top level wr's. Without looking it up, HOF - T.O. comes to mind as does Brandon Marshall from a few years back... I'd say that in this particular case - it is quite clear that Dak, the play calling, and route's being called - is much more to blame when it comes to Dez's reduced production than Dez himself is. I have a hard time seeing it in a different light and, i've tried hard to see the point from the other side.
I believe in Dez's talent, but I place a little more blame on him than you do. He was far from a stud who just had a bad quarterback last year. PFF graded him as WR47. That ranking can be impacted by QB play (though the goal is for it to be solely individual), but I still trust it a good bit.

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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby Jfever » Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:26 pm

Do you put any blame on the play calling? I do. How about the specific routes he was asked to run? I think those factor in heavily. I'm not saying that some of the regression isn't on Dez. Heck.... it'd be crazy to say that. I think he has some significant concentration issues. But, I think that concentration issues are less serious than the ability issues that I see coming from Dak. The combination of those two things are what has led to what we saw in that passing game.
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Re: Cowboys WRs & Dez Bryant

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Feb 26, 2018 3:18 pm

JFever wrote: Mon Feb 26, 2018 2:26 pm Do you put any blame on the play calling? I do. How about the specific routes he was asked to run? I think those factor in heavily. I'm not saying that some of the regression isn't on Dez. Heck.... it'd be crazy to say that. I think he has some significant concentration issues. But, I think that concentration issues are less serious than the ability issues that I see coming from Dak. The combination of those two things are what has led to what we saw in that passing game.
No argument there. I think everything's been working against him, and it's pretty crazy how quickly one of the best receivers of the last decade has been neutralized. Tony Romo's back and general changes to the Cowboys offense have been awful for him.


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