Evan Engram value?

[Shoreline Steamers]

He isn't a good blocking TE. Shurmer will want a TE that can block. Engram's value will take a hit as his production will likely take a hit. He isn't worth the 1.03 and it isn't close.

This is my worry for Engram. I don't own him, am not seeking him and don't hold anything better than a high/mid-1st - that said, I would value him around 1.6-1.8.

You both realize that there was legitimate discussion about whether or not Engram would even be used as a TE at the NFL level? Even if Shurmer does want more blocking from a TE it doesn't mean Engram has to come of the field. He could continue playing as a TE, move to WR, it really doesn't matter since NYG needs pass catchers.

And Jimmy Graham is an example of a TE who is a terrible blocker, and he's managed to stay on the field in two different cities. Soon to be a third. NYG didn't draft Engram expecting a road-grader of a TE. They knew exactly what they were buying.

[CK_]

I had the liberty of watching a lot of Engram last year and in College because I would work his games. I will never understand where people keep saying he is not a good blocking TE because he has done fine after week 4 of the 2017 season. They kept him at it and he developed quite nicely. He may not be the best blocking TE and that I understand but he did well enough to take over the starting TE role in an offense that relied heavily on having a blocking TE. He also has a higher value than what is perceived because he was averaging 4 for 40 before OBJ went down. Like what?! For a rookie TE that's terrific! So pre injury he was going to end the year with 64 catches at 640 yards and this guy isn't a stud at TE?! Hes a stud with or without Beckham and cares so much about his craft he developed better as a blocker.

He to me was the best TE in the 2017 draft and I targeted him in every draft I could Dynasty or otherwise. FFPC TE Premium ones I was getting him, Gronk, and Kelce everywhere I could and was able to start all 3 every week. OJ Howard was vastly overrated and never understood why people valued him so high. Even Analysts warned people that Howard was not used correctly in College and that could potentionally be the truth and peak of what he has to offer.

[Shoreline Steamers]

I appreciate you post CK_

I realize you, like myself aren't trying to pump-up Engram because we own him. We own him because we were excited to draft him in what was a great TE class.

Maybe it's just me? But I'm getting the vibe running through a lot of different threads that many owners just don't value the position all that much. I guess it could be that there's only a few options you'd say are "elite", so if you don't have one of those guys you're still not at a huge disadvantage. Just plug someone in and hope for the best... I don't know.

[James McGhee]

He isn't a good blocking TE. Shurmer will want a TE that can block. Engram's value will take a hit as his production will likely take a hit. He isn't worth the 1.03 and it isn't close.

This is my worry for Engram. I don't own him, am not seeking him and don't hold anything better than a high/mid-1st - that said, I would value him around 1.6-1.8.

You both realize that there was legitimate discussion about whether or not Engram would even be used as a TE at the NFL level? Even if Shurmer does want more blocking from a TE it doesn't mean Engram has to come of the field. He could continue playing as a TE, move to WR, it really doesn't matter since NYG needs pass catchers.

And Jimmy Graham is an example of a TE who is a terrible blocker, and he's managed to stay on the field in two different cities. Soon to be a third. NYG didn't draft Engram expecting a road-grader of a TE. They knew exactly what they were buying.

Why are we talking about Jimmy Graham? He played under Payton and then Carroll (Bevell). He didn't play for Shurmur. The conversation we're having is whether or not Engram is a fit in the new offensive scheme of the New York Giants. Not whether or not move TEs who can't block can be successful in the NFL in general. I realize they are very valuable...to the right coach running the right offensive scheme.

Engram was drafted by McAdoo and Jerry Reese (?).

My point is that there are some (to what extent is debatable) legitimate reasons to be concerned about his use with a new offensive minded head coach and a GM who didn't draft the guy.

[CK_]

I appreciate you post CK_

I realize you, like myself aren't trying to pump-up Engram because we own him. We own him because we were excited to draft him in what was a great TE class.

Maybe it's just me? But I'm getting the vibe running through a lot of different threads that many owners just don't value the position all that much. I guess it could be that there's only a few options you'd say are "elite", so if you don't have one of those guys you're still not at a huge disadvantage. Just plug someone in and hope for the best... I don't know.

100% agree. I drafted Engram in the late second last year in my rookie draft and was shocked by TE needy teams skipping on him. I was thinking at the time that he would be the Giants Jordan Reed. Never did I expect for him to actually learn how to block, but he did. I was mainly stating that because in my League people do not value the TE much at all and I don't see it being valued highly as a whole.

There was a cool little graph that I caught on Twitter showing that TEs are being targeted more and more in today's NFL. It's a position you can usually get for pennies that has terrific returns that no one seems to care about.

[CK_]

TEs cause what people like to call a "Matchup Nightmare" for teams playing against them. He had some rookie hiccups but the dude did well in the position he was put in and showed that even a rookie TE can be a "Matchup Nightmare" for teams.

As I do own him, I would not trade him for anything less than the 1.02. As far as I can tell he is a stud that is being devalued because of what he did in OBJs absence. He also is being disregarded for what he was doing before his absence.

If I didn't own him and I could trade away any pick after 1.05 then I would happily do that to obtain him.

[Shoreline Steamers]

Why are we talking about Jimmy Graham? He played under Payton and then Carroll (Bevell). He didn't play for Shurmur. The conversation we're having is whether or not Engram is a fit in the new offensive scheme of the New York Giants. Not whether or not move TEs who can't block can be successful in the NFL in general. I realize they are very valuable...to the right coach running the right offensive scheme.

Engram was drafted by McAdoo and Jerry Reese (?).

My point is that there are some (to what extent is debatable) legitimate reasons to be concerned about his use with a new offensive minded head coach and a GM who didn't draft the guy.

I understand your point, and I brought up Graham as an obvious example of a move TE (which Engram is) who's had plenty of success without being a good blocker. But Engram is already a better blocker than Graham, and is just entering his second season. There's room for growth in that area of his game and he seems willing to work at it (something Graham has not done).

Your point is valid about regime change, and how that affects players already on the roster. We won't really have any idea until later this summer. But I would say that one thing Shurmur showed in Minnesota is versatility. He was able to change gears a couple of times this season when Bradford went down, then losing Dalvin Cook. Insert Keenum and play to his strengths, then switch from using a "bell cow" approach to a timeshare with Murray/McKinnon. He tried to adapt his offense to make the best use of the assets he had at his disposal. I was really impressed with how the Vikings played this year on offense considering the players they lost.

He'll look to put his stamp on the team obviously, but for starters he's got to utilize the talents of the players he's inherited. I'm actually kind of excited to see how the Giants play in 2018. I can't help but think they'll improve over this past season. I believe Engram can be an important part of that.

[James McGhee]

Why are we talking about Jimmy Graham? He played under Payton and then Carroll (Bevell). He didn't play for Shurmur. The conversation we're having is whether or not Engram is a fit in the new offensive scheme of the New York Giants. Not whether or not move TEs who can't block can be successful in the NFL in general. I realize they are very valuable...to the right coach running the right offensive scheme.

Engram was drafted by McAdoo and Jerry Reese (?).

My point is that there are some (to what extent is debatable) legitimate reasons to be concerned about his use with a new offensive minded head coach and a GM who didn't draft the guy.

I understand your point, and I brought up Graham as an obvious example of a move TE (which Engram is) who's had plenty of success without being a good blocker. But Engram is already a better blocker than Graham, and is just entering his second season. There's room for growth in that area of his game and he seems willing to work at it (something Graham has not done).

Your point is valid about regime change, and how that affects players already on the roster. We won't really have any idea until later this summer. But I would say that one thing Shurmur showed in Minnesota is versatility. He was able to change gears a couple of times this season when Bradford went down, then losing Dalvin Cook. Insert Keenum and play to his strengths, then switch from using a "bell cow" approach to a timeshare with Murray/McKinnon. He tried to adapt his offense to make the best use of the assets he had at his disposal. I was really impressed with how the Vikings played this year on offense considering the players they lost.

He'll look to put his stamp on the team obviously, but for starters he's got to utilize the talents of the players he's inherited. I'm actually kind of excited to see how the Giants play in 2018. I can't help but think they'll improve over this past season. I believe Engram can be an important part of that.

Very valid point regarding flexibility in scheme dependent on personnel.

With that said, as a Vikings fan, I'm interested to see Shurmur put his stamp on a Giants offense that's pretty stacked with talent (minus the RB position). They should all benefit immensely.

[Shoreline Steamers]

With that said, as a Vikings fan, I'm interested to see Shurmur put his stamp on a Giants offense that's pretty stacked with talent (minus the RB position). They should all benefit immensely.

Were you bummed to see Shurmur go, or just happy to see him land a head coaching gig? I think he's going to do a good job.

We're going through a lot of coaching changes in Seattle, and frankly, I've no idea how things will shake out. I'm a little nervous. Change is always part of the NFL landscape, but sometimes it works out better than others!

Edit: And sorry about the NFC Championship. I was really pulling for you guys, and surprised at how that game in Philly turned out. That sucked.

[James McGhee]

With that said, as a Vikings fan, I'm interested to see Shurmur put his stamp on a Giants offense that's pretty stacked with talent (minus the RB position). They should all benefit immensely.

Were you bummed to see Shurmur go, or just happy to see him land a head coaching gig? I think he's going to do a good job.

We're going through a lot of coaching changes in Seattle, and frankly, I've no idea how things will shake out. I'm a little nervous. Change is always part of the NFL landscape, but sometimes it works out better than others!

Edit: And sorry about the NFC Championship. I was really pulling for you guys, and surprised at how that game in Philly turned out. That sucked.

He deserved a shot as HC and I'm happy for him. I think he did a tremendous job with the Vikings offense and should do similarly well with NY.

I like Bevell and think he's a solid OC. I'm a little surprised he got canned. He's done well with run and gun QBs (Favre in MN and Wilson).

Yeah, the NFC Championship game was a big let down and a bit of a surprise. I'm a Vikings fan but I also consider myself an impartial judge of the NFL landscape as a fan of football in general and I was a bit surprised at how badly the Vikings got their butt whooped. Someone has to lose every game but I didn't think it would go down like that. Almost would have rather lost to the Saints by 1 than the Eagles by 31 and I was at the Saints game.

[btv802]

1.05-1.06 range for me. There is just a limit to how much I'm paying for a TE when you only need to start one.

[stoneghost28]

What 1st round pick range in this next draft would you trade for Evan Engram in a TE required league?

My only concerns with Engram relate to the new coach and scheme (need to do a little digging on Shurmer's use of TE's), as well as what they'll have in place at QB over the next 5+ years. I have Engram on 3 or so teams (I went after TE's heavily in the rookie draft last year because I felt the TE position was barren in terms of vets, and they were great small cap growth stocks so to speak, cheap now, HUGELY VALUABLE later (to me anyway). I'm not a huge fan of this draft and honestly, if you're looking at Engram, to me you do one of two things.

1.) Just keep him. Unless you have great elite or upside talent at the position already, it makes sense to just keep him. What are the odds you're going to get a guy after the top 2 picks who ends up being as valuable as Engram? He looks like a future stud at the position (he already produced like one), he's young, and he plays a position where talent is the most scarce in fantasy. Is anyone after Barkley and Guice likely to produce better than Engram? Sure, but is the risk of drafting a bust, worth it in such a trade? Not close at all to me.

2.) If you have depth at TE, legit depth of talent there, and youth, then I could see the reason to move him if you got a legit producer back in the trade. I just wouldn't trade him for a pick unless it was a part of a bigger package that gave you the 1.01 or 1.02 (too crazy to draw up scenarios since you'd be the one giving up more in such a deal). I am kinda in that type of situation in a few leagues, because I went TE crazy in the rookie draft last year:

In one league I have:
Engram alongside Njoku, Shaheen and Everett

I bought him in an auction salary cap league last summer for $6. He costs $12 in '18 and that's a no brainer to me.

And I made a mega trade in an RSO league where I blew up my team and went younger:

I dealt Winston (2 years and like 34 mill left on his deal), Duke Johnson (1 year at 7 mill left), Shaheen (3 years and less than 1 mill per year), and a late '18 2nd.

and got back

Kamara (3 years and 12.5 mill total), Engram (3 years and 5.25 mill total ) and Bortles (now a FA-needed to include him to not break cap rules w/the other guy (I have the most cap space in the league by far).


Turns out 2 of my 3 shares aren't in dynasty leagues darn it! Lol, glad I read this post. Anyway, again, I don't think he's worth dealing period unless you're getting elite vets back. Otherwise I wouldn't do it. But if you're trading for picks, to me, he's worth the 1.02 if you have to trade him. Are you gonna roll the dice on Michel or Sutton when you already have a bird in the hand? I wouldn't. This is the wrong draft to trade him to me, TE class sucks, and there is a major tier drop after picks 1.01, 1.02, and probably 1.03 or 1.04 to me. Not worth it unless you get a crazy overpay.

[stoneghost28]

He isn't a good blocking TE. Shurmer will want a TE that can block. Engram's value will take a hit as his production will likely take a hit. He isn't worth the 1.03 and it isn't close.

I don't understand that take. Coaches do want blocking TE's, and some are rock heads that are incapable of using elite TE's but I have a hard time believing he won't see the talent Engram brings to bear. The guy produced a top 5-10 season in nearly every production stat you can look at, as a rookie, on an imploding team, with a broken offense and nobody to draw away coverage from him because most of the year they were starting the 4th and 5th WR options, and the RB's were god awful, and the OL gave Eli little time to pass.

Shumur's gonna look at that, and say, he's not a good blocker. We can't use him? If that was true they should fire him yesterday. Engram's the most talented player they've got on the offense not named Beckham.

The 1.03 this year is going to go to a committee back (Michel), or a speculative WR (Sutton or Washington) more than likely. Engram isn't close to that valuable? That seems insane to me. Engram is proven at the NFL level at the scarcest position there is in terms of elite talent and depth in fantasy. He's worth a lot more than the 1.03 in this draft. Last year, I get that take, in this draft, I really don't at all (especially considering this is dynasty and you buy for the long term-if Shurmur ends up being that stupid, he'll probably be fired in two years as the Giants will struggle in the short term as they transition from Eli to the young QB they draft this spring).

[stoneghost28]

I appreciate you post CK_

I realize you, like myself aren't trying to pump-up Engram because we own him. We own him because we were excited to draft him in what was a great TE class.

Maybe it's just me? But I'm getting the vibe running through a lot of different threads that many owners just don't value the position all that much. I guess it could be that there's only a few options you'd say are "elite", so if you don't have one of those guys you're still not at a huge disadvantage. Just plug someone in and hope for the best... I don't know.

100% agree. I drafted Engram in the late second last year in my rookie draft and was shocked by TE needy teams skipping on him. I was thinking at the time that he would be the Giants Jordan Reed. Never did I expect for him to actually learn how to block, but he did. I was mainly stating that because in my League people do not value the TE much at all and I don't see it being valued highly as a whole.

There was a cool little graph that I caught on Twitter showing that TEs are being targeted more and more in today's NFL. It's a position you can usually get for pennies that has terrific returns that no one seems to care about.

Yep, my feeling too in last years rookie draft. If I had a pick after 1.09 or the early 2nd, it was earmarked for whomever was left among Njoku/Engram/Howard, and I used my at least half of my 2nds/3rds/4ths, to collect any of Everett, Jonnu Smith, Shaheen, or Kittle shares available (still targeted RB's and WR's, but I made sure I came out of nearly all of my rookie drafts with at least 2 of my top 8 TE's in the class, and often 3, the reason being that I felt this class was the one chance I'd have to land a top 3 overall TE for 5-10% of the typical cost in a trade. The only genuine cost of any important was the roster space lost housing a TE for 2-3 years waiting for him to come into his own (since their trade value wouldn't justify moving them until '19-'20). Other than roster space lost for years, really, it made no sense whatsoever to pass on these guys.

[jomaed]

According to Fantasy Pros "Evan Engram lined up in the slot just 25.4 percent of the time, the 2nd lowest mark among TEs."

He was used poorly under the old staff and even if the new regime wants to use him as a blocker, it most likely won't be any more than he was this past year. Also, it's on record that he knew he needed to work on his blocking, and got plenty of opportunity to do so. From what i saw he really took that to heart and improved. He was put into a situation he wasn't accustom too and still did pretty darn well.