Shakeup in Seattle

[Phaded]

I thought I saw some statistical breakdown somewhere about Wilson's career to date...breaking down specifically his effectiveness of throwing while scrambling vs throwing from the pocket. The results (if I am remembering this correctly) were that he is VASTLY better throwing on the run (like historically good), and just a bit below your average QB throwing from the pocket. If that's true, maybe they are investing in other areas before the line for good reason.
That...or the statistics of his passing from the pocket are only BECAUSE his line is so bad.

It kind of makes sense when you think about it - when he starts scrambling; the defense suddenly has to respect the possibility that he is going to run with the ball. So the coverages change, with a threat like Wilson he can force his weapons open when he scrambles as the defense naturally shifts their focus to him.

When Wilson IS in the pocket from what I've seen - it almost always seems like he is under pressure or does not have much time to throw the ball.

Them investing in the offensive line is still the best thing to do or they are going to get Wilson killed.

Only Seahawks I have is Baldwin; so if Wilson gets more time to throw I'm all for it.

[Shoreline Steamers]

Well,

Just heard and update. We knew Bevell had been fired, lots of discussion about DC Kris Richard being on his way out as well.

But now, it just broke that the Hawks have fired O-Line coach Tom Cable. So I guess he's not in line for a larger role with the organization. Cleaning house...

[DrNoish]

Their O-line was terrible, but they constantly put the blame elsewhere saying it wasn't the problem. I'm not so sure they don't treat it as normal in free agency and draft and just try hard to bring in a true expert O-Line coach. I'll throw out that I haven't read much and maybe they just promoted, as I'm a 49ers fan and truly dislike and don't follow them. But that could be a possibility.

[Vendetta]

This was a much needed change, Bevell has been incapable of making adjustments during games and failed to utilize his players properly (Jimmy Graham) while Tom Cable has been unable to adequately develop the O-Line. The Hawks entire offense this past season was built upon Russell's ability to create on his own, virtually nothing Seattle did on offense this year was as a result of designed plays by Bevell or semi-competent protection, any other QB that can't scramble would have been killed. I'm excited to see what the team has in store. Hoping for Guice at 18.

[FFHawk12]

Bevell was not the problem but he wasn't helping the offence move forward either.

I see them bringing in a QB guru type (rumours around the QB coach in Philly), someone to help Wilson while also holding him accountable.

Hoping they don't go RB early, far to many holes to fill before that.

[CK_]

It's going to be nice to see some outside change come to Seattle. They are definitely a fun team to watch and I look forward to their future.

[Kaz]

If they want to bring in an OL guru, there is Munchak in Pit.

[Vendetta]

Hoping they don't go RB early, far to many holes to fill before that.

OL is clearly our biggest need but from what I've read this doesn't seem to be a strong OL class anyway so I'd rather not reach for one just for the sake of taking one. I don't see a ton of holes, a lot of our issues were caused by injuries and inept coaching (having a decent kicker game would help too). I just don't see our current collection of RBs in any way, shape or form the answer. Sure Carson looked good in spurts but it wasn't a big enough sample size to remove RB as a need going into the draft. Rawls had a longer stretch as the starter a few years ago but hasn't looked like the same runner since. Davis was serviceable but he too isn't the longterm answer. All of the guys we've got are all decent parts but they're not Derrius Guice. I would rather spend a pick to get a single guy that could be the total package than trying to use 3 or 4 different guys to get the same result, nobody gets into a rhythm that way and I'd also way rather do that than spend big free agent dollars on a RB again, we all saw how that worked out with Eddie Lacy. If we address our DLine or secondary though I wouldn't be upset either.

[clarion contrarion]

they need to hire dr. phil as the whole organization is mind ****** since the super bowl loss ! I think the defense doesn't scare people the way it used to ( age injuries whatever) the Oline is a disaster & when doug baldwin is the biggest threat on offense other than Russ the facts bear out that how they won was believing they would win. They have lost belief in their own invincibility thus it becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. They aren't unbeatable because they don't think they are unbeatable. Their results always exceeded their apparent potential they just looked in the mirror and realized we are a bunch of jags and became a bunch of jags.
I seriously question if they are not in need of a complete retool and talent injection top to bottom . Colin cowherd posits that the further pete gets from college the less he knows where to find late round gems and draft steals and the misses are more frequent and the huge draft steals are gone.

May have happened anyway as many teams that have that many stars especially at non premium positions end up in salary cap hell hawks are no different. Seems like all the $ hawks spend on the secondary and MLB & good but not great Dline is coming home to roost.

[Shoreline Steamers]

they need to hire dr. phil as the whole organization is mind ****** since the super bowl loss !

This isn't 100% the issue, but it's certainly one of them I think.

Additionally, I believe part of the reason for this major staff shake-up is discipline and accountability. Pete Carroll is more of a positive, "rah-rah" coach, and he needs some coaches on staff to play the "heavy". The guys they let go of did not fit that bill, and hopefully the new hires will.

When you have the penalty issues Seattle had in 2017 it points to a lack of discipline. Both on the offensive line and on defense. This team needs a figure who will come in and say, "This is WHAT you're expected to do. This is HOW you're expected to do it. If you can't, we'll find someone who can." Under Carroll, the Hawks have been a very player friendly organization and I think that can work well with the general personality of today's athletes. However, when you cede too much control to the players it leads to infighting, sideline dust-ups, and dysfunction. All things we've seen in Seattle the last couple of seasons.

I also once heard an interesting interview with Mike Holmgren after he'd left the Seahawks, discussing the coaching cycle. It was his belief that a coach comes in with a method and message, imparting change to an organization. While hopefully it's effective in it's infancy, as core players return year-after-year things get to a point where they've heard it all before, and the message becomes stale. They tune-out. It's harder to keep them energized and motivated, and that spills over to the younger players. If/when that happens, he believed it's time for a coaching change to reset the dynamic. His belief was that 6-years was about the average length of time before the cycle needs a reboot FWIW.

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

I also once heard an interesting interview with Mike Holmgren after he'd left the Seahawks, discussing the coaching cycle. It was his belief that a coach comes in with a method and message, imparting change to an organization. While hopefully it's effective in it's infancy, as core players return year-after-year things get to a point where they've heard it all before, and the message becomes stale. They tune-out. It's harder to keep them energized and motivated, and that spills over to the younger players. If/when that happens, he believed it's time for a coaching change to reset the dynamic. His belief was that 6-years was about the average length of time before the cycle needs a reboot FWIW.

Unless you're Bill Belichick or Marvin Lewis

[ericanadian]

I also once heard an interesting interview with Mike Holmgren after he'd left the Seahawks, discussing the coaching cycle. It was his belief that a coach comes in with a method and message, imparting change to an organization. While hopefully it's effective in it's infancy, as core players return year-after-year things get to a point where they've heard it all before, and the message becomes stale. They tune-out. It's harder to keep them energized and motivated, and that spills over to the younger players. If/when that happens, he believed it's time for a coaching change to reset the dynamic. His belief was that 6-years was about the average length of time before the cycle needs a reboot FWIW.

Unless you're Bill Belichick or Marvin Lewis

Belichick just cycles the players every six years. Works out to the same effect.

[ArrylT]

I think a lot has to do with having a healthy QB, having coaching continuity and some luck. Winning makes it a lot easier to listen to the same message for 6+ years and winning has a strong correlation to having healthy and good QBing and coaching continuity..

So I think that it is is always a good idea to invest in your O-Line. Belichick and Lewis arent the only coaches that have been around a long time - you also have Tomlin, Reid, Payton, McCarthy & Harbaugh - and they all have either a healthy QB or QB continuity as part of it.

Part of what killed Baltimore this year was that Flacco wasnt fully healthy at first - heck had they won against the Bears earlier in the season - it is the Ravens who make the playoffs as they'd be 10-6 even with a Week XVII loss to Cincinnati. And obviously the Rodgers injury led to the Packers seasons demise.

So I think Carroll knows that if he wants to stick around as long as them - then having an o-line that protects your QB from all but fluke injuries is a key part as well. And if the current OC and OLine coach arent making that happen then I guess they needed to be replaced.

[Shoreline Steamers]

So it looks like everything is coming into focus with the coaching staff, though my initial reaction is "meh". Which is disappointing.

Ken Norton Jr - D. Coordinator - He's worked with Carroll and the Hawks in the past, and did some good things with their linebacker corps. However, we all know how his stint as the DC in Oakland ended up. Not too pretty. Will getting back together with Carroll produce better results? At least he seems likely to bring a little discipline, which is a quality I was looking for in an effort to cut down on some of the penalties. Overall though, didn't have me fist-pumping with excitement.

Mike Solari - O-Line Coach - Another coach who was once with the Hawks returns for a second stint. At first glance it seems likely that he'd want to employ a heavy zone-blocking scheme, though I don't think that fits Seattle's personnel very well and hopefully doesn't come to pass. I'm really not sure what to expect here, but cutting down on penalties is again job #1a with this group while keeping Russell upright is #1b. We'll see if he's up to the task.

Brian Schottenheimer - O. Coordinator - Uninspiring hire at first glance, though I did hear an interesting interview with a NYJ beat writer who was there when Schotty held this position with the Jets. The QB's he oversaw were Chad Pennington (whip-smart, noodle arm), Brett Favre (played through in injured shoulder that season), and Mark Sanchez (enough said).

It was pointed out that the offense they ran with Pennington took advantage of spread formations and lots of pre-snap movement to expose the defense's intent. The passing game was predicated on getting the ball out quickly, and shorter throws to maximize Pennington's strengths and hide his deficiencies as much as possible. When Favre came in, he basically told Schottenheimer that he didn't want those spread formations. "Put a WR on each side and line up a TE and let's go!" Again, the offense was changed to fit the style of play of his QB. With Sanchez, the Jets tried to have a balanced offense until they realized that their best WR's were Santonio Holmes (in his last somewhat productive season) and Jeremy Kerley. Additionally, Sanchez just wasn't very good at reading a defense. When they tried to go run-heavy, they found that Shonn Greene was a mediocre option at best. Overall, the offense tanked.

The "silver lining" takeaway from all this? At least Schottenheimer tried to tailor his offenses to the strengths of his personnel, and his schemes were markedly different for each QB he worked with. Additionally, he never really had a great QB at his disposal, and now he does in Russell Wilson. So there is at least hope that the offense will improve in 2018, though I don't feel confident in predicting that now.

[ArrylT]

Thanks for piecing it all together and sharing your take - I had only heard about the Norton signing.