so what actions will DLF take?

[skip]

I access the forums from at least 4 different networks in addition to they my cell provider. You cannot police access via IP.

[ImaRounder]

There are things out there called VPNs, virtual private networks.

Or he could use the data on his phone which is all packet based.

Or idk maybe go to a holiday inn and use their network.

Of all the ideas, this is literally the only one that is IMPOSSIBLE.

[Phaded]

I am sure if you blocked his account that would be enough.
Not sure his ego could handle losing his post count.

[Goddard]

I am sure if you blocked his account that would be enough.
Not sure his ego could handle losing his post count.

Was going to say this.

[OhCruelestRanter]

There are things out there called VPNs, virtual private networks.

Or he could use the data on his phone which is all packet based.

Or idk maybe go to a holiday inn and use their network.

Of all the ideas, this is literally the only one that is IMPOSSIBLE.

Fair, but you could ban the IPs he’s used and then if he gets a VPN, okay.

[ninotoreS]

Anything deleted can't serve as a 'cautionary warning'; it warranted archiving. Locking that thread was fine. Deleting it was stupid. Bad moderating.

[bot]

Anything deleted can't serve as a 'cautionary warning'; it warranted archiving. Locking that thread was fine. Deleting it was stupid. Bad moderating.

I agree with this. I have stayed out of this to this point but if a "cautionary warning" was to be achieved how is it cautionary if someone didn't get to read the initial thread listing the transgressions??

[Dynasty DeLorean]

I think we just ban Coogan and ban his IP. That’s much better than any proposed solution I’ve heard.

I agree. It's not a perfect solution but rarely is there one. This PM idea is only serving to distract from the real problems and solutions. Coogan had done more than enough to earn himself a ban in my opinion even before this whole debacle happened. We know DLF can do whatever they want. It's their forum, they make the rules and choose how to enforce them. However you can't have your cake and eat it too. They claim they want a forum where, in the simplest terms i can think of, people are generally friendly and constructive with their discussions. Yet they've been letting an infamous troll run rampant on their website virtually unchecked for years. I've had him blocked for a while now but nearly every quoted post I see of his appears to be breaking one rule or another. They gave him his own sub-forum which subsequently disallowed others from adding him to their "foe's" list in order to block his keyboard vomit until I said something about it. I've never had the pleasure of seeing this particular document but apparently they even posted an article he wrote on their website. When he's accused of sabotaging a league and pocketing the fees by multiple people, they delete the thread. These actions of utter indifference (and some might even mistake them with those of support) don't appear to coincide with any statement made from DLF staff about what they want this place to be, and for that reason I take issue with what they have and have not done. I don't agree with the attitude of "we'll just let things sort itself out on it's own." If someone commits a murder, do you just say "F it, they'll eventually go to hell so everyone just forget about it." Obviously that's an extreme scenario which a motivated individual could surely nitpick to death, but I'm simply trying to point out that the logic doesn't really hold up. To better illustrate my point, let me put it this way. Ultimately, real world problems almost never seem to be solved this way. When's the last time you said, "eh, I have this major problem on my hands but I'll just not do anything about it and i'm sure it'll get better eventually." That course of action just doesn't pass the smell test from a common sense point of view. It makes even less sense from a practical standpoint as you're essentially advocating for an unruly mob of regular forum users to troll the troll. It's going to be a complete mess every time Coogan posts, meaning less useful conversation for us and more work for the mods. Lastly, I don't agree with the people who contend DLF bears zero responsibility for what happens outside this forum. They will be giving a known scammer (of which enough proof was provided for any reasonable person) unfettered access to a sub-forum devoted to people creating/joining leagues together. They'd essentially be what the getaway driver is to a bank robbery. No, you didn't go in and commit the crime, but you did give them the platform to do so. I don't think anyone really faults the DLF staff for Coogan's most recent off-site antics, but because of their inaction here I do believe they should shoulder some blame if it ever happens again with the same individual. I'll also note that there have been several people on this forum that have pissed me off, and I'm sure I've inadvertently pissed others off too. But not one time (aside from the person central to this discussion) have I thought to myself "this person should be banned from the forum." To their credit, DLF has made a pretty good community here. If I didn't care at all I wouldn't be making this post. With that said, in my opinion it still doesn't excuse their behavior on this particular subject.

[clarion contrarion]

well said DD

[teprovich88]

I agree with whoever stated that we should get these forums back to what they were intended for. I have noticed multiple instances and periods of times over the past year or two where certain threads just take on a life of their own. As a result, I myself have started to find that I frequent the site/forums less and less.


Pertaining to the situation triggering this discussion, the whole situation is quite unfortunate. But DLF and the mods are doing their job in keeping the forums from becoming anything targeted at a specific individual regardless of whether or not the targeting is warranted or not. You cannot justify allowing anything to become targeted at a specific person, because these forums would truthfully become a complete sh*tshow. Think about how quickly disagreements can escalate in a league if there is a disagreement. Now allow that league to become a collection of hundreds of people.

So as everyone should do from time to time, let's thank the DLF guys and mods for spending their time and efforts in doing a rather thankless job. And while you are at it, send an email to each of the commissioners of the leagues that you are a part of and just tell them thank you for running a quality and ethical league. The amount of complaints and crap that these guys and commissioners have to deal with, greatly outweighs the times that people randomly tell them thank you for doing a good job. And this situation goes to show that a bad commissioner can really ruin the experience of a league and of this hobby that we all enjoy.


What "we" (as a community) need to do going forward is politely educate owners, new and/or seasoned, about the importance of doing their research prior to joining a league. But truly that is all that can be done. If we see suspicious owners/commissioners then we should call them out (but avoid getting into a pissing match with them) and my suggestion, but I would defer to what the DLF guys would want, would be to then alert one of the mods for that person to be monitored or banned (that specific username). As others have stated, to actually ban someone from a virtually anonymous internet forum is impossible. So to expect that from the DLF guys is quite unfair. If someone wants to go out of their way to create a new username, then honestly they will just create a new username. Eventually, their actions/character will show again and they will get called out again. But in the end we are all adults (or mostly adults, even if some act like spoiled children) the responsibility falls on us to do the research and avoid potentially shady situations.

If you don't do your research and you make a bad trade, who's fault is it? The commissioner's for allowing you to make a stupid trade? Or your own for making that stupid trade?

If you join a league with a shady commish, who's fault is it? Yes it is easy to blame DLF for taking down the post, but the thread was probably becoming more targeted at the individual versus being a Public Service Announcement.

In the future, I think this situation is/can be very easily solved by a quick response to the involved owner's postings of:

"Please be aware that this owner/commissioner has been known to be involved in prior unethical league activities/behavior."

This serves as a clear warning to anyone that the owner is trying to recruit. Beyond that, there really is not a single thing that anyone one of us can do. If someone wants to ignore that then they are assuming the risk involved. Something of that statement is not provoking response, although given the involved individual could trigger a response. But beyond that statement, there should not be any other response made towards that person, regardless of what they might respond back with. It is not worth the time and effort to feed into the situation. To continue to feed into the situation just makes the lives of the DLF guys more complicated.

Just ignore the bully/cheater. Eventually the bully/cheater will have no one to help feed his/her ego. The bully/cheater will then move elsewhere to try and find attention.

Let's Make DLF Great Again.... <-- yes that was targeted sarcasm, but I truly mean it. Let's get back to the fruitful discussions that steered me to this forum in the first place a few years ago.

[CK_]

I access the forums from at least 4 different networks in addition to they my cell provider. You cannot police access via IP.

I did explain this on page one you can easily ban every IP he's used without interfering with others. I know you don't like me but I am right bud . I ran a forum for 5 years and ran servers for 3.

[CK_]

There are things out there called VPNs, virtual private networks.

Or he could use the data on his phone which is all packet based.

Or idk maybe go to a holiday inn and use their network.

Of all the ideas, this is literally the only one that is IMPOSSIBLE.

Fair, but you could ban the IPs he’s used and then if he gets a VPN, okay.

100% exact on what i said on page one. It is easily possible and is of no issue to any forum admin.

[BradysBunch]

I usually stick to team advise on this forum, but just saw this. I don't know any specifics, but for the people who got taken for some money..

In perfect scenario...small claims court. You could have everyone in the league talk about it.
1. Is it worth it financially? You will need to figure out exactly what he actually "stole" and prove it. You will also need to come up with about $500 out of pocket to file the paperwork, but you add that to the claim and you get paid back if you win.
2. You physically need to file it, so someone needs to go to the county courthouse where he lives.
3. You will need to know his name and address.
4. Be prepared to garnish his wages if you win and he doesn't pay. ( There is a legal form you have the courts send that he must fill out and send back).

I did this to renters 13+ years ago, so the process may have changed. It isn't bad, but it is somewhat time consuming. But somethings are just done to prove a point too.

Now if you are only out 100, maybe move on and chalk it up to a life lesson. It is not worth the headache.

Good luck.

[Triton85]

Like the mods and admins have repeated said, by taking a stand here and allowing this they would be setting a precedent for future situations.

Where would you like them to draw the line on determining innocence vs guilt? They let this post, and that one stay up long enough that a large amount of people saw it. But going forward what is to stop me and 4-5 other guys from saying someone like Goddard (no offence, just using a respected regular as an example) is being a big fat meany. At what point does a mob saying "guilty" equal guilt.

I am not defending the actions of Coogan, but those of DLF for taking the stand they did. They need to remain neutral and not allow for mud throwing on a public forum.

[captain howdy]

Like the mods and admins have repeated said, by taking a stand here and allowing this they would be setting a precedent for future situations.

Where would you like them to draw the line on determining innocence vs guilt? They let this post, and that one stay up long enough that a large amount of people saw it. But going forward what is to stop me and 4-5 other guys from saying someone like Goddard (no offence, just using a respected regular as an example) is being a big fat meany. At what point does a mob saying "guilty" equal guilt.

I am not defending the actions of Coogan, but those of DLF for taking the stand they did. They need to remain neutral and not allow for mud throwing on a public forum.

But coogan had the opportunity to reply and defend himself.

He did reply, and offered zero defense or explanation.