so what actions will DLF take?

[dlf_kenm]

DLF is here to provide a forum for people to share fantasy football information. Our main website provides articles, tools resources, etc which will hopefully help people find success in fantasy football. Our role is not that of Judge, Jury, or Sheriff. Our role is to provide a platform for a community. Ensuring the stability of that community is not always easy. There is rarely one single perfect solution to every problem.

So, if the question is: What will DLF do to protect the members of this community from potential bad actors? The answer is: nothing. That is simply not our role. For actual financial protection, I would encourage everyone to explore a service like LeagueSafe. But we are not going to render judgement on community members based upon accusations, however credible they may seem. It's simply not our role.

If the question is: Will DLF allow the members of this community to share information about potential bad actors? The answer is: of course, but to a point. Once the discussion crosses the lines of acceptable behavior and turns to messages which are nothing more than personal attacks and threats, then we will pursue the same course of action as we would in any thread on any topic where this behavior occurs.

If the question is: Why did we delete the entire thread instead of just the specific posts? The answer is: We saw an evolving issue and took what we deemed to be appropriate action. Can a case be made for just specific posts having been deleted? Sure. Was deleting the entire thread totally inappropriate? No, I don't think so.

We've been facilitating this community now for almost 12 years. For the most part things have run pretty well. As far as online communities go, this one is pretty civil and hospitable. But occasionally a discussion goes off the rails, and when it does we have to take some form of action. Our response may not always be universally agreeable or even perfect. But we do our level best to keep things running well.

We cannot control the actions of people outside this forum and community. If there are concerns, share them in a civil and appropriate manner, and move on. The moment a discussion descends into attacks and threats, we will take action. All we can control is the shape of the discussions which occur within these walls. We may not always be perfect, you may not always agree with our decisions, but our sole objective is to help ensure a stable, civil forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas.

And finally, if you have concerns about how any of the mods on the forum handle things, or you are interesting in helping to make the forum a better place by volunteering to be a mod yourself, then please PM me directly.

Thanks

KM

[OhCruelestRanter]

You don’t have to protect your users, but this dude committed the two cardinal sins of fantasy football- stealing and cheating- and you deleted the thread where his horrible acts were detailed and confirmed.

I get deleting personal attacks, but you’re allowing a thief in your house.

[skip]

A similar issue/thread appeared on these boards a few years ago. The corrupt individual had a bit of audacity to remain on the forums (though not for too long). Unfortunately the league members who were all members of this forum nearly all left (I believe they all did). I did as well, though returned after a couple of years hiatus. Unless they are here under other usernames, no one else came back. I have zero issue with the airing of grievances. The only thing I don't care for is when it regresses to personal attacks.

[JoshGordonsDealer]

DLF is here to provide a forum for people to share fantasy football information. Our main website provides articles, tools resources, etc which will hopefully help people find success in fantasy football. Our role is not that of Judge, Jury, or Sheriff. Our role is to provide a platform for a community. Ensuring the stability of that community is not always easy. There is rarely one single perfect solution to every problem.

So, if the question is: What will DLF do to protect the members of this community from potential bad actors? The answer is: nothing. That is simply not our role. For actual financial protection, I would encourage everyone to explore a service like LeagueSafe. But we are not going to render judgement on community members based upon accusations, however credible they may seem. It's simply not our role.

If the question is: Will DLF allow the members of this community to share information about potential bad actors? The answer is: of course, but to a point. Once the discussion crosses the lines of acceptable behavior and turns to messages which are nothing more than personal attacks and threats, then we will pursue the same course of action as we would in any thread on any topic where this behavior occurs.

If the question is: Why did we delete the entire thread instead of just the specific posts? The answer is: We saw an evolving issue and took what we deemed to be appropriate action. Can a case be made for just specific posts having been deleted? Sure. Was deleting the entire thread totally inappropriate? No, I don't think so.

We've been facilitating this community now for almost 12 years. For the most part things have run pretty well. As far as online communities go, this one is pretty civil and hospitable. But occasionally a discussion goes off the rails, and when it does we have to take some form of action. Our response may not always be universally agreeable or even perfect. But we do our level best to keep things running well.

We cannot control the actions of people outside this forum and community. If there are concerns, share them in a civil and appropriate manner, and move on. The moment a discussion descends into attacks and threats, we will take action. All we can control is the shape of the discussions which occur within these walls. We may not always be perfect, you may not always agree with our decisions, but our sole objective is to help ensure a stable, civil forum for discussion and the exchange of ideas.

And finally, if you have concerns about how any of the mods on the forum handle things, or you are interesting in helping to make the forum a better place by volunteering to be a mod yourself, then please PM me directly.

Thanks

KM

[dlf_kenm]

You don’t have to protect your users, but this dude committed the two cardinal sins of fantasy football- stealing and cheating- and you deleted the thread where his horrible acts were detailed and confirmed.

I get deleting personal attacks, but you’re allowing a thief in your house.

As I said, we cannot act as judge or jury. The accusations may sound credible, but we cannot definitively confirm their veracity. All we can do is control what happens within the walls of this community. If anyone does something in this forum that is inappropriate, we will respond accordingly.

[dlf_kenm]

A similar issue/thread appeared on these boards a few years ago. The corrupt individual had a bit of audacity to remain on the forums (though not for too long). Unfortunately the league members who were all members of this forum nearly all left (I believe they all did). I did as well, though returned after a couple of years hiatus. Unless they are here under other usernames, no one else came back. I have zero issue with the airing of grievances. The only thing I don't care for is when it regresses to personal attacks.

Agreed Skip. People are certainly allowed to state what they believe to be the facts. We will not censor that. Only when the discussion descends into personal attacks and threats will we take action. The actions we take may not always be agreeable to everyone. In situations like this, I can tell you from experience, no matter what we do, someone will take exception. All we can do is address the situations which occur here in this community that fall outside the boundaries of acceptable behavior. We will always do our best to do so impartially and to the very best of our abilities. No guarantees of perfection are ever offered.

Thanks,

KM

[FiremanEd]

And finally, if you have concerns about how any of the mods on the forum handle things, or you are interesting in helping to make the forum a better place by volunteering to be a mod yourself, then please PM me directly.

Expect Coogan's resume to be in your inbox shortly. It's a role he's been grooming himself towards for years now...though I suggest doing a thorough background check

[Ghosted]

I guess my only concern is why is he allowed to remain? It's a public forum governed by a website. There is no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have all of the preponderance of evidence you need. Owners were taken advantage of by a league that was bred within these very walls. It's really something that can't be allowed to happen.

[Cult of Dionysus]

Do regret not taking a screen shot of The Coogster's line-up in his signature.

[dlf_kenm]

I guess my only concern is why is he allowed to remain? It's a public forum governed by a website. There is no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have all of the preponderance of evidence you need. Owners were taken advantage of by a league that was bred within these very walls. It's really something that can't be allowed to happen.

1. So what do we do if a few people with an axe to grind level seemingly valid, corroborating but entirely manufactured accusations against you? How are we to know what is and is not true? Again, we are not here to act as judge or jury, unless the actions in question occur within the walls of this community. If someone posts, says or does something inappropriate here in this forum or on the website, that's were we can and will take action.

2. What's to prevent the banned person from simply firing up another account, possibly run through a proxy server or from a work account or from a cell phone where the IP address is always changing? Nothing. We'd simply be playing whack a mole.

In the twelve years we've been facilitating this community, I can assure you, these issues tend to be self-correcting.

[FiremanEd]

Definitely inclined to agree that there is no obligation for DLF to take action here, and I feel the need to ensure that people don't turn what one idiot has done into a target on Ken and the DLF team to take the action that will correct it. People may want what would appear as a 'punishment' to be handed out, but there really isn't anything that can be done that doesn't create a difficult precedent. Frankly, it is on commissioners to vet league participants and league members to vet commissioners (and LeagueSafe settings) to avoid such issues. The onus is on them, not DLF to police that. Let's not spin this to a blame DLF or seek for them to be the ones to resolve what happened. They are bystanders.

To be honest, I'm surprised this behavior surprised some given the behavior of the individual over the years, and I know at least one key individual involved in the recent league was in the DLF IDP league as well and was already aware what his behavior could be first hand. I'm surprised they jump in again, as frankly, it was the reason i steered clear of the co-manager league. People need to monitor their leagues and commissioners accordingly. Most won't want any self blame, but then chalk it up to a risk that came out poorly. It happens.

In the end I am just happy that the individual has been outed and many more see what i've seen for some time. We're all a part of the same party now.

[Shoreline Steamers]

I guess my only concern is why is he allowed to remain? It's a public forum governed by a website. There is no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have all of the preponderance of evidence you need. Owners were taken advantage of by a league that was bred within these very walls. It's really something that can't be allowed to happen.

I get where you're coming from, but also see Ken's point of view.

The thing is, owners in the league in question may well have been taken advantage of (I believe they were). However, DLF cannot be expected to contact MFL and research this particular league with the intent of proving/disproving a forum members misconduct in order to allow them to remain in the forum or boot them. It's just not practical, and it doesn't have anything to do with what DLF provides in the first place. Your statement above assumes everything in the deleted thread was absolutely truthful and DLF should act accordingly. But that is opinion, not a fact that has been established, or will be established.

Do I think the Pierson's account is accurate? Yes. I've had it verified to me personally by another member of that league. But because I believe the accusations levied against another forum member doesn't mean I believe it's DLF's responsibility to boot them.

In some ways, it's too bad the thread got deleted in it's entirety. That's DLF's prerogative. But I will acknowledge that some people in the thread were using the OP's post as an excuse to vent their dislike of another forum member and some of the posts got pretty nasty. The public shaming may well lead the subject of this dust-up to leave the forum altogether. I wouldn't be back if I were in his shoes. But should he choose to remain an active member of the forums, I'd wager there will be no shortage of members here who will call out any bad behavior in the future.

[Ghosted]

I guess my only concern is why is he allowed to remain? It's a public forum governed by a website. There is no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have all of the preponderance of evidence you need. Owners were taken advantage of by a league that was bred within these very walls. It's really something that can't be allowed to happen.

1. So what do we do if a few people with an axe to grind level seemingly valid, corroborating but entirely manufactured accusations against you? How are we to know what is and is not true? Again, we are not here to act as judge or jury, unless the actions in question occur within the walls of this community. If someone posts, says or does something inappropriate here in this forum or on the website, that's were we can and will take action.

2. What's to prevent the banned person from simply firing up another account, possibly run through a proxy server or from a work account or from a cell phone where the IP address is always changing? Nothing. We'd simply be playing whack a mole.

In the twelve years we've been facilitating this community, I can assure you, these issues tend to be self-correcting.

I think that's quite a leap to make to justify not taking action at all, really.

As for number 2, yes, I'm sure that would be fairly easy to accomplish. I feel that way with my job sometimes. You arrest someone for robbery, they get out, and then commit more robberies (because of some type of system failure). But at least I feel like I did my job. You do all that you physically can to ensure that you're providing the best service possible to the people that make this site and community great. From my perspective, it's always better than doing nothing at all.

Sorry if it sounded like a mindless complaint. Overall, I believe you guys do an excellent job, and I appreciate the work that you all do for this site.

[dlf_kenm]

I guess my only concern is why is he allowed to remain? It's a public forum governed by a website. There is no need for proof beyond a reasonable doubt, and you have all of the preponderance of evidence you need. Owners were taken advantage of by a league that was bred within these very walls. It's really something that can't be allowed to happen.

1. So what do we do if a few people with an axe to grind level seemingly valid, corroborating but entirely manufactured accusations against you? How are we to know what is and is not true? Again, we are not here to act as judge or jury, unless the actions in question occur within the walls of this community. If someone posts, says or does something inappropriate here in this forum or on the website, that's were we can and will take action.

2. What's to prevent the banned person from simply firing up another account, possibly run through a proxy server or from a work account or from a cell phone where the IP address is always changing? Nothing. We'd simply be playing whack a mole.

In the twelve years we've been facilitating this community, I can assure you, these issues tend to be self-correcting.

I think that's quite a leap to make to justify not taking action at all, really.

As for number 2, yes, I'm sure that would be fairly easy to accomplish. I feel that way with my job sometimes. You arrest someone for robbery, they get out, and then commit more robberies (because of some type of system failure). But at least I feel like I did my job. You do all that you physically can to ensure that you're providing the best service possible to the people that make this site and community great. From my perspective, it's always better than doing nothing at all.

Sorry if it sounded like a mindless complaint. Overall, I believe you guys do an excellent job, and I appreciate the work that you all do for this site.

I understand where you are coming from and your analogy is interesting. It sounds like you work in law enforcement? If so, first and foremost, thank you. Seriously... Thank You.

But applying that analogy to this forum... just like you probably have some realm of jurisdiction within which you can act responsibly, we too have a jurisdiction, and it ends once anything happens outside of the dynastyleaguefootball.com domain. All we can act upon are actions which occur in this domain. If you are working your beat and find out some resident in your area has been accused of theft or whatever in some other country, are you able to arrest them on that accusation? I'm guessing not. But if they go on to steal from the corner gas station, then you have grounds for action. That's in your house.

As far as the league being started here on this forum... a ton of leagues have started on this forum. Are we to be somehow held accountable for the actions of all of those leagues, all of the league participants and all of those commissioners? I cannot see how we possibly could.

I get that it's frustrating and concerning. So like some previous posts have shared, I'd encourage everyone to vet their leagues carefully. Know what you are getting into. Use the tools available to help ensure reliability, like LeagueSafe. And if something does go down, please keep in mind, this is a game, it's supposed to be fun, if it's not, move on from the league or find a hobby that is more enjoyable. Keep it all in perspective.

Thanks again everyone.

KM

[Ghosted]

Thanks for the perspective, and for the kind words. There's no need to thank me, though, really. We all play our own little roles in this world. You guys know far more the complexities of running and governing a site like this with so many unique personalities than I ever will; I don't envy it. And I understand what you're saying. I think some are hyper-focused on the actual "act" itself, and I'm by no means suggesting that you attempt to someone enforce anything in that regard. Sometimes you just have to look at the toxicity that a person brings to a table like this, and think about what is best for all. I understand that it's completely subjective, but there are tangible pieces of evidence floating all around this site. Hopefully now it has at least been highlighted in a way that everyone is aware of it.