Kirk Cousins Discussion Thread

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
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general mills
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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby general mills » Tue Sep 16, 2014 9:24 am

Coaches want a player who fits their system not change their system to fit a player.

Dalton improved every year under Gruden. I think he could improve Cousins.

If Cousins is above .500 and they are in line to make the playoffs I think it will tough to switch back to RG3. I fear Washington will fall in that sink hole ATL did when they had Vick. There was so up and down and it was all based on if the QB remained healthy.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby nrwegman » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:30 am

So in a 16 man league, I have cousins and the RGIII owner offered me RGIII and a second for Cousins.

Which side do you like? (Second team in signature)
TEAM 1: 10 team Dynasty NON PPR 1QB 2WR 1RB 1TE 2FLEX
QB: Mahomes, Newton, Darnold
WR: 'Nuk, C Ridley, Thielen, C Davis, R Woods, John Brown, P Williams, Higgins, Sims Jr
RB: Mixon, Kamara, Akers, Scott, Harris, McFarland
TE: Ertz, Henry, Alie-Cox

TEAM 2: 10 team Dynasty 1 pt PPR, Full IDP,1QB,3WR,2RB,1TE,1FLEX,K,2LB,2DE,1DT,2CB,2S
QB: Newton, Trubisky, Smith
WR: Evans, Watkins, Robinson, J Gordon, Garcon, Hogan, Kupp, Coleman, Treadwell, Godwin, Cobb
RB:Gurley, Mixon, Guice, Ingram
TE: Kelce, Ertz, Howard
DL: Donald, Flowers
LB: K Alexander,A Ogletree, Z Brown
CB: Fuller,Bradburry
S: R Jones, Collins

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby adpar87 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:42 am

It's a no brainer in my opinion. Some already pointed out that Cousins was far from impressive last year and he's just the backup to Griffin. I doubt that he'll have success and think that RGIII will start again when he's healthy. I agree that talent-wise, Griffin is head and shoulders above Cousins. So you're getting the better talent AND a 2nd pick for the backup. You don't need Cousins with Brees and Palmer. At worst, you can flip Griffin again after his comeback since his value should then be higher than right now and especially in a 16 team-league.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby thebeast » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:53 am

adpar87 wrote:It's a no brainer in my opinion. Some already pointed out that Cousins was far from impressive last year and he's just the backup to Griffin. I doubt that he'll have success and think that RGIII will start again when he's healthy. I agree that talent-wise, Griffin is head and shoulders above Cousins. So you're getting the better talent AND a 2nd pick for the backup. You don't need Cousins with Brees and Palmer. At worst, you can flip Griffin again after his comeback since his value should then be higher than right now and especially in a 16 team-league.
I would pass and ask for a 1st. RG3 is done, at least in Washington -sure maybe he comes back in week 8 but how effective do you think he's going to be? He just got his confidence back from the ACL injury now he's going to be on egg shells again due to the ankle. And how long is it until he's hurt again? Hurt in college and now constantly hurt in the pros. RG3 is far more talented than Cousins, but I think Cousins is more valuable right now.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby Lotto4Life » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:06 am

Get what you can out of Griffin while you can. I wouldn't trade for him.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby adpar87 » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:34 am

Maybe I'm too high on Griffin, but I'd go with talent all the time, even in this circumstances. Of course, Cousins holds a higher value right now because he's playing and Griffin isn't, but that is redraft mentality in my opinion. In dynasty, Cousins will never be a quality fantasy QB1 and I doubt that he will even be one in reality. Griffin is frustrating to own, but the upside is immense. That's my thinking behind getting him AND a pick for his backup when you don't need him. Of course, I wouldn't trade my only QB for him right now, but times can't get really better to buy him low and I'd definitely do that. Cousins was WW fodder in 12 team leagues prior to week 2 and now you can get a pick and a potential stud for him? I take that all day. But it's just me...

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby thebeast » Thu Sep 18, 2014 7:40 am

adpar87 wrote:Maybe I'm too high on Griffin, but I'd go with talent all the time, even in this circumstances. Of course, Cousins holds a higher value right now because he's playing and Griffin isn't, but that is redraft mentality in my opinion. In dynasty, Cousins will never be a quality fantasy QB1 and I doubt that he will even be one in reality. Griffin is frustrating to own, but the upside is immense. That's my thinking behind getting him AND a pick for his backup when you don't need him. Of course, I wouldn't trade my only QB for him right now, but times can't get really better to buy him low and I'd definitely do that. Cousins was WW fodder in 12 team leagues prior to week 2 and now you can get a pick and a potential stud for him? I take that all day. But it's just me...
You might be right, I just think the NFL passes guys by quickly and RG3's health is now a concern for any team that would want to build around him. He's a read option guy who they were trying to stuff into the pocket. If you want to maximize RG3s value you need to run a read option system, but how can you implement that knowing how often and easily he gets injured? Personally I think the only way RG3 becomes valuable again is if Cousins falls on his face (which is possible) and he (RG3) gets another shot with Washington. If Cousins plays well RG3 probably ends up somewhere like Cleveland.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby ericanadian » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:28 am

First, I think it would be hilarious if St. Louis picked up Griffin given that they traded the pick to Washington in the first place. I can't see Washington picking up anything beyond maybe a 2nd if they choose to go with Cousins.

As for Cousins, he profiles very similar to Dalton and Dalton way outperformed everyone's expectations, so I don't think it's completely impossible.

One comment I've seen a few times is that teams want someone that fits the scheme and don't want to build around a guy with a bad injury history for this reason. Cutler is fairly injury prone as well, but never in a million years would someone suggest a team wouldn't want to build around him for that reason. If it's an issue of transition to the backup, how hard is it to pick up someone like Tyrod Taylor, Josh Johnson, Dennis Dixon or even Pat White? It's not like there aren't guys out there at the backup level that would fit the zone read scheme.

I think it's unbelievable that a guy is on the fence about trading Cousins for a 2nd and Griffin. Cousins value is high second, maybe low first. To suggest RGIII doesn't make up that difference makes no sense. The guy is going to get another shot and even if you don't think he'll succeed, you'd be an idiot not to think he'll see a massive value spike when he does and all the glowing reports start flowing out of camp. Trade him then and make a nice clean gain if you like.
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QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby thebeast » Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:39 am

ericanadian wrote:First, I think it would be hilarious if St. Louis picked up Griffin given that they traded the pick to Washington in the first place. I can't see Washington picking up anything beyond maybe a 2nd if they choose to go with Cousins.

As for Cousins, he profiles very similar to Dalton and Dalton way outperformed everyone's expectations, so I don't think it's completely impossible.

One comment I've seen a few times is that teams want someone that fits the scheme and don't want to build around a guy with a bad injury history for this reason. Cutler is fairly injury prone as well, but never in a million years would someone suggest a team wouldn't want to build around him for that reason. If it's an issue of transition to the backup, how hard is it to pick up someone like Tyrod Taylor, Josh Johnson, Dennis Dixon or even Pat White? It's not like there aren't guys out there at the backup level that would fit the zone read scheme.

I think it's unbelievable that a guy is on the fence about trading Cousins for a 2nd and Griffin. Cousins value is high second, maybe low first. To suggest RGIII doesn't make up that difference makes no sense. The guy is going to get another shot and even if you don't think he'll succeed, you'd be an idiot not to think he'll see a massive value spike when he does and all the glowing reports start flowing out of camp. Trade him then and make a nice clean gain if you like.
You have to be a very good athlete to be able to run the read option , there aren't many who can do it successfully and there are few backups that would be capable winning games if thrust into that role as they just aren't dangerous enough compared to the starter. However, McCown proved that when a guy like Cutler goes down that you can win games with a capable backup. We saw this when Brady went down that Cassell was able to support the team.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby OhCruelestRanter » Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:12 pm

nrwegman wrote:So in a 16 man league, I have cousins and the RGIII owner offered me RGIII and a second for Cousins.

Which side do you like? (Second team in signature)
I'd trade away Cousins for the 2nd straight up. This is a steal.
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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby ericanadian » Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:32 pm

thebeast wrote:
ericanadian wrote:First, I think it would be hilarious if St. Louis picked up Griffin given that they traded the pick to Washington in the first place. I can't see Washington picking up anything beyond maybe a 2nd if they choose to go with Cousins.

As for Cousins, he profiles very similar to Dalton and Dalton way outperformed everyone's expectations, so I don't think it's completely impossible.

One comment I've seen a few times is that teams want someone that fits the scheme and don't want to build around a guy with a bad injury history for this reason. Cutler is fairly injury prone as well, but never in a million years would someone suggest a team wouldn't want to build around him for that reason. If it's an issue of transition to the backup, how hard is it to pick up someone like Tyrod Taylor, Josh Johnson, Dennis Dixon or even Pat White? It's not like there aren't guys out there at the backup level that would fit the zone read scheme.

I think it's unbelievable that a guy is on the fence about trading Cousins for a 2nd and Griffin. Cousins value is high second, maybe low first. To suggest RGIII doesn't make up that difference makes no sense. The guy is going to get another shot and even if you don't think he'll succeed, you'd be an idiot not to think he'll see a massive value spike when he does and all the glowing reports start flowing out of camp. Trade him then and make a nice clean gain if you like.
You have to be a very good athlete to be able to run the read option , there aren't many who can do it successfully and there are few backups that would be capable winning games if thrust into that role as they just aren't dangerous enough compared to the starter. However, McCown proved that when a guy like Cutler goes down that you can win games with a capable backup. We saw this when Brady went down that Cassell was able to support the team.
The vast majority of backups offer a serious drop off from the starter. You've cherry picked two situations that don't happen often and I'd say that it speaks a lot more to the systems of those teams than it does the competenct of the backup QBs (though Cassell at least isn't straight up terrible). Most teams don't have a system that they can slide guys in and out without much dropoff. Do you think Weeden would pick up from Romo without missing a beat? He might, but the odds are highly against it.
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QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
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TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby thebeast » Fri Sep 19, 2014 6:07 am

ericanadian wrote:Do you think Weeden would pick up from Romo without missing a beat? He might, but the odds are highly against it.
At this point he might be an upgrade.

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby TXPackFan » Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:48 am

Still not sold on Cousins just yet, but regardless, assuming he does play well, RGIII will start when he comes back.

From everything I've read, RGIII is more important to Snyder than his first born, taking his side over anyone else's including couches. Even if Cousins outplays him and they get a few wins, RGIII will start regardless of what Gruden or anyone else thinks because the guy signing the checks is going to make sure of it.
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WR-Green, Mike Thomas, Demaryius Thomas, Thielen, R. Matthews, Higgins, Ross, A. Steweart
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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby the_future » Fri Sep 19, 2014 9:46 am

ericanadian wrote:First, I think it would be hilarious if St. Louis picked up Griffin given that they traded the pick to Washington in the first place. I can't see Washington picking up anything beyond maybe a 2nd if they choose to go with Cousins.

As for Cousins, he profiles very similar to Dalton and Dalton way outperformed everyone's expectations, so I don't think it's completely impossible.

One comment I've seen a few times is that teams want someone that fits the scheme and don't want to build around a guy with a bad injury history for this reason. Cutler is fairly injury prone as well, but never in a million years would someone suggest a team wouldn't want to build around him for that reason. If it's an issue of transition to the backup, how hard is it to pick up someone like Tyrod Taylor, Josh Johnson, Dennis Dixon or even Pat White? It's not like there aren't guys out there at the backup level that would fit the zone read scheme.

I think it's unbelievable that a guy is on the fence about trading Cousins for a 2nd and Griffin. Cousins value is high second, maybe low first. To suggest RGIII doesn't make up that difference makes no sense. The guy is going to get another shot and even if you don't think he'll succeed, you'd be an idiot not to think he'll see a massive value spike when he does and all the glowing reports start flowing out of camp. Trade him then and make a nice clean gain if you like.
There is one simple flaw in your statement: Cutler can actually throw the ball...

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Re: If Cousins plays well...

Postby qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj » Thu Sep 25, 2014 10:41 pm

I didn't get to see the game tonight, but just got home from work to see Cousins crushed my hopes of winning this week in the one league I played him over Newton. I knew it was a bit of a gamble of course, as unproven guys tend to be, but I definitely did not imagine anything this bad could happen.

I'm just curious to hear from people what happened tonight. Was it all on Cousins? Terrible O-line? Messed up routes? Or was the Giants D just that good in putting him under pressure tonight? I know it's probably a mix off all of the above, but as I don't think I'll have the time to watch any replays I'd appreciate some input.

Thanks!


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