Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.

Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Goff + Wentz
48
81%
Winston + Mariota
11
19%
 
Total votes: 59

User avatar
Kaz
Starter
Starter
Posts: 588
Joined: Sun Jun 13, 2010 9:00 am

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Kaz » Sat Nov 18, 2017 2:38 am

It is honestly crazy how reversed the poll is from what it would be last year. That being said, I'm taking Wentz to the bank. The growth and poise he's showing on the field puts him a solid length above the others. I like Mariota quite a bit as well, but it looks like he's the second coming of Alex Smith right now. I don't think we'll be able to accurately evaluate him until he has a system change, which could be a while given that the Titans are actually showing some decent progression. I just think Winston is a sub-par QB.
QB: Ryan, Simian, Bridgewater
RB: McCoy, Lynch, McKinnon, R.Kelley
WR:D. Thomas, D.Adams, T.Hill, A.Rob, Sanders, Edelman, Lockett, Anderson, Gentry, K. Willams, Malone
TE: Olsen, Clay, Kittle
DL: Jordan, Wilkerson, Cox, Tuitt, Ngakoue, C.Harris
LB: Mosley, D.Jones, Wright, Treviathan, V.Williams, McMillan
DB: Weddle, S.Davis, Killebrew, J.Evans, Geathers, Bell[

User avatar
Tsunami
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1659
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Tsunami » Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:20 am

Goff is improving but he's still not good. I think Wentz is playing well because of his o-line and team, he doesn't look spectacular to me. He has the lowest completion rate of the four, but this could be the WRs fault I suppose. I got some guff here when I compared Winston unfavorably to Bortles this off-season but I think he's never going to be good.

Five years from now I think Mariota and Goff will be the best QBs, but Wentz could have a few good years before that so is probably worth most right now.

User avatar
Servo
Captain
Captain
Posts: 788
Joined: Tue Sep 29, 2015 4:17 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Servo » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:29 am

It's completely fair to start questioning Winston and Mariota, probably Winston more than anything.

People just were expecting these two to play at a bigger level this year, shake up the playoff race and from a fantasy perspective they are sitting:
- MM QB ~18
- JW QB ~24

We'll see if Mariota can take his team into the postseason and if Tennessee finishes strong but Winston and Tampa have just completely imploded. Fitzmagic has as many wins as Winston now :sick:

But what Wentz and Goff are doing with their teams is pretty incredible, granted they are only a piece of the puzzle:
- Improved Gurley, OL and WR for LA
- Improved running game, WR, defense for PHI

It's hard not to sway with the recency bias because these two QBs and their teams are legitimate contenders....we'll learn more about LAR and Goff's legitimate development over these next few weeks as they face a pretty tough schedule.
Trucking Through The Fantasy Mud, One Year At a Time.

12-Man, 0.5PPR, Superflex, Start 9
2016 - Runner Up
2017 - Champion

User avatar
ayrichieb
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 445
Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:50 am

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby ayrichieb » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:33 am

Wentz
Mariota
Goff

*Massive Gap*

Winston
2014 est. 12 team (22 Keepers), 1QB,2RB,3WR,1TE,1Flex (non ppr)
Dezed and Confused: 6-7, 2016-6th, 2015-5th, 2014-2nd
QB- D.Prescott, P.Rivers, M.Trubisky,
RB- K.Hunt, D.Murray, J.Mixon, M.Gillislee, K.Drake, J.Williams, D.Lewis, D.Williams
WR- D.Thomas, S.Diggs, J.Gordon, A.Robinson, R.Cobb, C.Coleman, R.Matthews, C.Meredith, C.Samuel
TE- D.Walker, J.Smith
2018- 1.5, 1.6, 1, 3.2, 3, 4, 5

pvillebiker
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 395
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2013 2:25 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby pvillebiker » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:00 pm

Tsunami wrote:
Sat Nov 18, 2017 9:20 am
Goff is improving but he's still not good. I think Wentz is playing well because of his o-line and team, he doesn't look spectacular to me. He has the lowest completion rate of the four, but this could be the WRs fault I suppose. I got some guff here when I compared Winston unfavorably to Bortles this off-season but I think he's never going to be good.

Five years from now I think Mariota and Goff will be the best QBs, but Wentz could have a few good years before that so is probably worth most right now.
Fascinating take on Goff. Just curious, what do you attribute the team's success to this year (highest scoring offense in league thru week 10), the coaching?

User avatar
Jason3123
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:15 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Jason3123 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 4:20 pm

I voted Mariota/Winston because I don't give up on QB's after 3 seasons and I thought they were superior coming out of college. Neither is even close to their ceilings right now, far better days ahead for those 2. Everything is roses for Wentz and Goff right now, and they will have darker days ahead. I would also be trying to trade Goff for either Mariota/Winston if possible, as I don't think he's anywhere close to those 2 long term.
10 Team Superflex / 23 Man Salary / 7 Taxi / PPR / 5pt RB 100 yd Bonus
QB - Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins
RB - Todd Gurley, Carlos Hyde, Lamar Miller, Ty Montgomery, Doug Martin, Eddie Lacy, T.J. Yeldon, Peyton Barber, Kenneth Dixon (TS), C.J. Prosise (TS), D'Onta Foreman (TS)
WR - Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, Brandin Cooks, Jordan Matthews, Keenan Allen, Demaryius Thomas, Willie Snead
TE - Jimmy Graham, Charles Clay, Jason Witten, Vernon Davis, Erik Swoope, Maxx Williams (TS)
2018: 1st (top 3) 2019: 4th, 4th

User avatar
JFever
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby JFever » Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:51 pm

Wentz easily the most valuable and most talented of that group. Not at all sure how anyone could say with confidence that Goff is the superior asset out of these four. SMH.... Not close comparison for me at all. Watched Vikings defense put that Rams offense in its place. Bout time we see the Rams play some decent competition. As far as Mariota, I've been hopeful but hesitant to go all in on him and I've always had my doubts on Winston and what he has / or doesn't have going on between the ears and his maturity.
Truth is found through Evidence and Evidence alone.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

User avatar
Jason3123
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:15 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Jason3123 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:04 pm

Considering most of these guys are 4-5 years and possibly multiple coordinator changes away from their peak this is a silly debate.
10 Team Superflex / 23 Man Salary / 7 Taxi / PPR / 5pt RB 100 yd Bonus
QB - Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins
RB - Todd Gurley, Carlos Hyde, Lamar Miller, Ty Montgomery, Doug Martin, Eddie Lacy, T.J. Yeldon, Peyton Barber, Kenneth Dixon (TS), C.J. Prosise (TS), D'Onta Foreman (TS)
WR - Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, Brandin Cooks, Jordan Matthews, Keenan Allen, Demaryius Thomas, Willie Snead
TE - Jimmy Graham, Charles Clay, Jason Witten, Vernon Davis, Erik Swoope, Maxx Williams (TS)
2018: 1st (top 3) 2019: 4th, 4th

User avatar
Jason3123
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2203
Joined: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:15 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby Jason3123 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:13 pm

Not to mention everyone will just flip flop their stance when Goff/Wentz are struggling and Mariota/Winston are hot again lol. Typical.
10 Team Superflex / 23 Man Salary / 7 Taxi / PPR / 5pt RB 100 yd Bonus
QB - Andrew Luck, Andy Dalton, Philip Rivers, Kirk Cousins
RB - Todd Gurley, Carlos Hyde, Lamar Miller, Ty Montgomery, Doug Martin, Eddie Lacy, T.J. Yeldon, Peyton Barber, Kenneth Dixon (TS), C.J. Prosise (TS), D'Onta Foreman (TS)
WR - Amari Cooper, Mike Evans, Brandin Cooks, Jordan Matthews, Keenan Allen, Demaryius Thomas, Willie Snead
TE - Jimmy Graham, Charles Clay, Jason Witten, Vernon Davis, Erik Swoope, Maxx Williams (TS)
2018: 1st (top 3) 2019: 4th, 4th

jtd1387
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1226
Joined: Sat Jun 27, 2015 6:26 pm
Location: Nagoya, JP

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby jtd1387 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:22 pm

I get the excitement with Wentz and Goff, but the poll results seem a little excessive. Wentz and Goff are going to hit rough patches too after a couple more years in the league. Save for Dan Marino, show me a QB who came in lighting the league on fire and kept it up for a long stretch of seasons.
Oldest- 12tm PPR QRRWWWT (est. 2002)
Q: Cousins, Bridgewater
R: Zeke, Kamara, Henry, D. Murray, Lynch, McGuire, Hill
W: OBJ, AR15, Cooks, Fuller, Mike Williams, John Ross, R. Anderson, T. Taylor, DJax, Tyrell Williams
TE: Walker, Everett
2013, 2014, 2016 Champ :dance:

User avatar
dm1129
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby dm1129 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm

JFever wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:51 pm
Wentz easily the most valuable and most talented of that group. Not at all sure how anyone could say with confidence that Goff is the superior asset out of these four. SMH.... Not close comparison for me at all. Watched Vikings defense put that Rams offense in its place. Bout time we see the Rams play some decent competition. As far as Mariota, I've been hopeful but hesitant to go all in on him and I've always had my doubts on Winston and what he has / or doesn't have going on between the ears and his maturity.
Ill informed Viking homer comment aside, yes Goff is better than Wentz. It is amusing to see so many fawn over Wentz and speak about what an amazng run he is on while he just completed barely over 50% of his passes against a Cowboy defense missing it's best player in addition to a starting safety. In the past 5 weeks, Wentz has completed 56% of his passes against the 17th, 19th, 25th, 27th, and 28th ranked defenses in terms of opponent passer rating. Undoutedly the Eagles as a team are on a roll, but it is not because of the sterling ability of Wentz. He is good, but not special. The media that are proclaiming Wentz as a superstar are the same fools who said Goff was a bust....

It is easy to forget, but this is Goff's first year in this offense. He is improving his grasp of the offense each week. He is very decisive in his progressions and can make throws anywhere on the field into tight windows. He makes throws over the middle into tight windows that I believe only 3 or 4 other QBs in the league can make. Goff has the potential to be the best QB in the league. I have no problem saying that. I base this not on his team's record or points scored, I base this on his ability.

User avatar
49ersFaithful80
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1678
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 12:21 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby 49ersFaithful80 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:03 am

Wentz and Goff by a mile, very surprised anyone voted for Winston & Mariota.

Wentz is any easy top 5 dynasty QB if not the #1 overall at this point. Extremely young and productive. Goff has had a very solid season and clearly is not a bust at this point.

This trade pretty much comes down to the fact that Winston is flat out awful despite having probably the best weapons in the league.

And apparently he's been sexually assaulting Uber drivers so we could possibly see a suspension down the line.

I still like Mariota quite a bit but he's clearly behind Wentz at this point and I'd easily take Goff over Winston.

User avatar
JFever
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby JFever » Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:17 am

dm1129 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm
JFever wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:51 pm
Wentz easily the most valuable and most talented of that group. Not at all sure how anyone could say with confidence that Goff is the superior asset out of these four. SMH.... Not close comparison for me at all. Watched Vikings defense put that Rams offense in its place. Bout time we see the Rams play some decent competition. As far as Mariota, I've been hopeful but hesitant to go all in on him and I've always had my doubts on Winston and what he has / or doesn't have going on between the ears and his maturity.
Ill informed Viking homer comment aside, yes Goff is better than Wentz. It is amusing to see so many fawn over Wentz and speak about what an amazng run he is on while he just completed barely over 50% of his passes against a Cowboy defense missing it's best player in addition to a starting safety. In the past 5 weeks, Wentz has completed 56% of his passes against the 17th, 19th, 25th, 27th, and 28th ranked defenses in terms of opponent passer rating. Undoutedly the Eagles as a team are on a roll, but it is not because of the sterling ability of Wentz. He is good, but not special. The media that are proclaiming Wentz as a superstar are the same fools who said Goff was a bust....

It is easy to forget, but this is Goff's first year in this offense. He is improving his grasp of the offense each week. He is very decisive in his progressions and can make throws anywhere on the field into tight windows. He makes throws over the middle into tight windows that I believe only 3 or 4 other QBs in the league can make. Goff has the potential to be the best QB in the league. I have no problem saying that. I base this not on his team's record or points scored, I base this on his ability.

Classic.... Nice to see consistency.

Ill informed Vikings homer comment? SNARKY MUCH? wondering now if you watched that game....

Goff looked like a 2016 version of himself vs the Vikings defense. You can say that you are basing your opinion of Goff on what you believe his talent to be - that is all fine as we all do that. But... in some sense, you are basing it off of the production that offense has put out on the field this year (how can you not?) - as that is the sole reason he is included in this discussion with Wentz, Mariota, and Winston this thread. You and I and everyone else would have a difficult time ignoring the production from him and that offense. Actually, we shouldn't ignore it. We should look at it and figure out precisely how and why he is performing & producing what we've been seeing. What many are ignoring is the lack of high level defensive competition they have faced while putting that production up. I agree that it is a touch too early to be definitive while comparing these two, and frankly, they are closer in talent than even I recognized / commented on. I agree that there will be ups and downs and shifting in our rankings and opinions on them, and it is simply too early to dig the heels in like myself & dm1129 have done in this thread. Wentz for me, but, I'll digress - I wouldn't fault someone for leaning one way or the other. Considering the Rams record and opponents - I'd simply lean toward Wentz as I beleive he has all the intangibles that a top 3 qb in fantasy requires. Goff, I'm simply not as confident in and - I own shares of each.
Truth is found through Evidence and Evidence alone.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.

User avatar
dm1129
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1096
Joined: Sat Jul 28, 2012 4:10 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby dm1129 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:30 am

JFever wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:17 am
dm1129 wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:42 pm
JFever wrote:
Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:51 pm
Wentz easily the most valuable and most talented of that group. Not at all sure how anyone could say with confidence that Goff is the superior asset out of these four. SMH.... Not close comparison for me at all. Watched Vikings defense put that Rams offense in its place. Bout time we see the Rams play some decent competition. As far as Mariota, I've been hopeful but hesitant to go all in on him and I've always had my doubts on Winston and what he has / or doesn't have going on between the ears and his maturity.
Ill informed Viking homer comment aside, yes Goff is better than Wentz. It is amusing to see so many fawn over Wentz and speak about what an amazng run he is on while he just completed barely over 50% of his passes against a Cowboy defense missing it's best player in addition to a starting safety. In the past 5 weeks, Wentz has completed 56% of his passes against the 17th, 19th, 25th, 27th, and 28th ranked defenses in terms of opponent passer rating. Undoutedly the Eagles as a team are on a roll, but it is not because of the sterling ability of Wentz. He is good, but not special. The media that are proclaiming Wentz as a superstar are the same fools who said Goff was a bust....

It is easy to forget, but this is Goff's first year in this offense. He is improving his grasp of the offense each week. He is very decisive in his progressions and can make throws anywhere on the field into tight windows. He makes throws over the middle into tight windows that I believe only 3 or 4 other QBs in the league can make. Goff has the potential to be the best QB in the league. I have no problem saying that. I base this not on his team's record or points scored, I base this on his ability.

Classic.... Nice to see consistency.

Ill informed Vikings homer comment? SNARKY MUCH? wondering now if you watched that game....

Goff looked like a 2016 version of himself vs the Vikings defense. You can say that you are basing your opinion of Goff on what you believe his talent to be - that is all fine as we all do that. But... in some sense, you are basing it off of the production that offense has put out on the field this year (how can you not?) - as that is the sole reason he is included in this discussion with Wentz, Mariota, and Winston this thread. You and I and everyone else would have a difficult time ignoring the production from him and that offense. Actually, we shouldn't ignore it. We should look at it and figure out precisely how and why he is performing & producing what we've been seeing. What many are ignoring is the lack of high level defensive competition they have faced while putting that production up. I agree that it is a touch too early to be definitive while comparing these two, and frankly, they are closer in talent than even I recognized / commented on. I agree that there will be ups and downs and shifting in our rankings and opinions on them, and it is simply too early to dig the heels in like myself & dm1129 have done in this thread. Wentz for me, but, I'll digress - I wouldn't fault someone for leaning one way or the other. Considering the Rams record and opponents - I'd simply lean toward Wentz as I beleive he has all the intangibles that a top 3 qb in fantasy requires. Goff, I'm simply not as confident in and - I own shares of each.
Haha, the 2016 version of himself? Not remotely. The Rams as a team made a few critical errors or the result would have been very different homer. Winston has the great intangible in terms of leadership, however his skill as a QB is mediocre. Intangibles alone don't make a qb. What I am referring to is actual analysis of QB skill. Goff makes throws into windows that Wentz cannot, on this I feel completely confident. Goff's game is more cerebral in terms of pre snap anlaysis of the defense and his progressions post snap and not nearly as easy for the masses to recognize while they can easily watch Wentz scramble around. QB is by far the most cerebral position in football. By the way, your argument fits better for Wentz, you do realize that? The level of passing defenses Goff has faced is better than what Wentz has faced and it is his first year in this offense.

User avatar
JFever
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5179
Joined: Sun Dec 04, 2011 6:19 pm

Re: Better Dynasty Assets: Goff + Wentz or Winston + Mariota?

Postby JFever » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:27 am

The Rams as a team made a few critical errors or the result would have been very different homer? What does that mean? The Rams as a TEAM - a healthy Gurley - and - S.Watkins & Your Goff qb as that teams leader - mustered 7 total points in 4 quarters of play.

Goffs pts opponent pass def rank
16.44 Colts 26
10.86 Redskins 25
23.58 at 49ers 14
18.10 at Cowboys 19
7.72 vs Seahawks 7
9.86 at Jaguars 3
18.70 vs Cardinals 24
Bye
28.44 at Giants 29
26.50 vs Texans 27
9.80 at Vikings 11

Give me a break. You can look at the opponents pass def rank and see a direct correlation with Goff's lack of production & Wentz's production. Not too tough to do and the results actually disprove what it is you are taking a stand on. Just sayin.

Wentz pts opponent pass def rank
18.88 at Redskins 24
24.82 at Chiefs 26
13.24 vs Giants 6
15.08 at Chargers 6
27.26 vs Cardinals 21
21.38 at Panthers 7
31.02 vs Redskins 19
17.14 vs 49ers 24
24.76 vs Broncos 4
Bye
20.02 at Cowboys 14

:whistle:
Last edited by JFever on Tue Nov 21, 2017 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Truth is found through Evidence and Evidence alone.

Science is the poetry of reality.

* Reality (as defined by Webster's dictionary) - A word for things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional ideal of them.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Kramer and 8 guests