Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
User avatar
Ghosted
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:54 am

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Ghosted » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:26 am

I can't speak for others, and I don't want to typecast myself as being "anti-Landry," but any information that I contrived was not just generated from this season (it was the exact opposite, in fact). Some may believe that it's too small of a sample size, and that's fine, but it's almost 4 years of data - and it's literally all we have. Maybe when it gets closer to f/a, I'll throw some comparison tables together. And I, for one, do watch the games. I don't just sit around crunching numbers all day haha. Just a normal guy who's a cop for a living, not an analytics major or mathematician, who loves watching sports. So I don't really think "common sense" is lacking on one side or the other. "Evidence" while factual in it's purest form, can also be completely subjective in how it's applied in this hobby of ours, and that's what makes conversations like these fun to me (and hopefully others, as well).
Team 1 High stakes 12 team PPR 1 QB 1 RB 3 WR 1 TE 2 Flex
Q M. Mariota | J. Garoppolo
R L. Bell | A. Jones | Ja. Williams
W O. Beckham | A.J. Green | J. Landry | D. Thomas | M.Evans | L. Fitzgerald | M. Williams | B. Perriman | G. Allison
T R. Gronkowski | G. Kittle | J. Smith

'18 1.1, 1.9

Team 2 Team Name Coogan's Cup 94 Team PPR 1 QB 1 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 Flex
Q A. Rodgers | C. Wentz | Jaws (the shark, not QB) | 30 year old Tom Brady | Shane Falco/Johnny Utah hybrid
R L. Bell | T. Gurley | D. Johnson | Zeke | B. Sanders | A faster Jim Brown | GoT's Ice Dragon | Batman | Braveheart
W OBJ | Nuk | 6'6 Jerry Rice | Randy Moss vs the Cowboys on thxgiving | Spider-Man | The sticky hand kid from the Little Giants | The Flash
T Gronk | Kellen Winslow | Godzilla | Mike Ditka | What Vernon Davis should have been
K S. Gostkowski | Chuck Norris | Morten Anderson kicking from The Karate Kid's "crane" stance
DST '85 Bears/'00 Ravens super-hybrid
'18 1.1 - 1.94

User avatar
Phaded
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9429
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Phaded » Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:58 am

My big problem with a lot of these arguments is that they are basically based on unofficial statistics that use formulas. It is why I hate Harmons reception perception, he literally comes up with statistics based on what his opinions (ie. when someone is open or has beaten coverage).

They all have massive flaws (even the basic stats have flaws). You can interpret and manipulate stats however you want to make your argument. You can pick stats that support your argument and ignore those that don't.

Stats have some meaning - but these complex ones should all be taken with a grain of salt.

There is no statistic that provides the perfect formula to predict success.
Do not join a league that has a veto option, it will be your funeral.
:boohoo:

User avatar
Cult of Dionysus
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1603
Joined: Sat Jun 29, 2013 2:02 am

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Cult of Dionysus » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:13 pm

So what's a fair value for Mr. Landry at this point, assuming full PPR?

I'm trying to acquire him, and I've offered Foreman and a late 2018 1st. That got turned down quick. Counter was Deshaun Watson and 1.01. Think actually 1.01 is about right... but not sure about that. lol
PSA re Tucorex
:arrow: Tucrorex is a tool and a troll. Don't humor him, don't encourage him, don't enable him. It's that simple folks. It really is.

DLF Forum Threads:
:arrow: "The Popcorn Thread: Dust-ups, catfights and other drama
:arrow: "New to Dynasty - What to look for in a league"

League Links:
:arrow: DLF Premium League (16 team, PPR, QB/2RBs/2WRs/2Flex/TE)
:arrow: USFL Superflex (12 team, 0.5 PPR, salary cap / contracts)

User avatar
Phaded
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9429
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Phaded » Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:17 pm

Cult of Dionysus wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 5:13 pm
So what's a fair value for Mr. Landry at this point, assuming full PPR?

I'm trying to acquire him, and I've offered Foreman and a late 2018 1st. That got turned down quick. Counter was Deshaun Watson and 1.01. Think actually 1.01 is about right... but not sure about that. lol
Depending how you feel about Barkley; 1.01 is probably a little bit high.
I would say in that early 1st range is fair though, or 2 mid-to-lates.
Do not join a league that has a veto option, it will be your funeral.
:boohoo:

User avatar
Phaded
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9429
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:32 pm
Location: Canada

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Phaded » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:12 pm

So - it is obviously very early into the year, but three weeks in he currently has an average per catch of 13.9; a whopping 5+ more yards per catch than last year in Miami. He is consistently being used down the field.

Things should only get better with Baker soon to be running the show as well.

Do we still think it was Landry or can we agree that the Miami coaching staff is just that awful?
Do not join a league that has a veto option, it will be your funeral.
:boohoo:

Cameron Giles
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7177
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:34 pm

Phaded wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:12 pm
So - it is obviously very early into the year, but three weeks in he currently has an average per catch of 13.9; a whopping 5+ more yards per catch than last year in Miami. He is consistently being used down the field.

Things should only get better with Baker soon to be running the show as well.

Do we still think it was Landry or can we agree that the Miami coaching staff is just that awful?
It's definitely encouraging that they're using him more downfield, though I'm hesitant to dismiss four years of sample size to three games despite a team change

Online
User avatar
skip
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 18363
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby skip » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:06 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:34 pm
Phaded wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:12 pm
So - it is obviously very early into the year, but three weeks in he currently has an average per catch of 13.9; a whopping 5+ more yards per catch than last year in Miami. He is consistently being used down the field.

Things should only get better with Baker soon to be running the show as well.

Do we still think it was Landry or can we agree that the Miami coaching staff is just that awful?
It's definitely encouraging that they're using him more downfield, though I'm hesitant to dismiss four years of sample size to three games despite a team change
I don't agree that it's a 4 year sample size. Every year saw Landry have an increased ypr except last season when Tannehill was hurt and they had garbage at QB. I fully expect 12-13 ypr as a lock as a minimum for this year.
Casinos Aren't Built on the Backs of the Winners

nathanq42
Player of the Year
Player of the Year
Posts: 2156
Joined: Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:40 am

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby nathanq42 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 4:30 pm

Nope, Miami had him run super shallow route all day every day because he clearly lacks the ability to do the exact same thing but 5 yards further down field. Obviously these 3 games are outliers, Landry has a low ypr because he physically can't make a cut or catch more than 5 yards down field. Idk how or why Landry has all of a sudden been able to catch the ball further down field.. it's as if the plays are designed to have him run a bit further down field or something.. but Miami the super team with a great offensive coaching staff and players, know how to better use Landry than the Browns, He cAn OnLy RuN rEaLlY sHaLlOw RoUtEs AnD iS iNcApAbLe oF gOiNg DeEp
12 Team 20 man roster 4 reserve slots 1 ppr .2 points per carry
Air Force IV
1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 1WR/RB/TE 1K 1DEF
QB Case Keenum, Ben Roethlisberger
RB David Johnson, Jerick Mckinnon IR, Radhaad Penny, Chris Carson, Royce Freeman, Kalen Ballage, Gio, Alfred Morris
WR Mike Evans, Odell Beckham Junior, Arob, Dede Westbrook, Nelson Agholor, Marvin Jones
TE Kyle Rudolph, Jack Doyle, Trey Burton
K Matt Prater
DEF Eagles

Cameron Giles
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7177
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:48 pm

skip wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:06 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:34 pm
Phaded wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:12 pm
So - it is obviously very early into the year, but three weeks in he currently has an average per catch of 13.9; a whopping 5+ more yards per catch than last year in Miami. He is consistently being used down the field.

Things should only get better with Baker soon to be running the show as well.

Do we still think it was Landry or can we agree that the Miami coaching staff is just that awful?
It's definitely encouraging that they're using him more downfield, though I'm hesitant to dismiss four years of sample size to three games despite a team change
I don't agree that it's a 4 year sample size. Every year saw Landry have an increased ypr except last season when Tannehill was hurt and they had garbage at QB. I fully expect 12-13 ypr as a lock as a minimum for this year.
Yards Per Reception wasn't the focus, since that includes YAC. It was Yards at the Catch, which Landry has usually ranked low in for four seasons. I'm not sure what the number is this year, but I'd assume it's higher so far. That's encouraging. I'm happy to be wrong about it though.

Online
User avatar
thebeast
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4667
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby thebeast » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:13 pm

Omg. The metrics cited in this thread are ridiculous. You guys take this too far. Landry is a baller, it’s that simple and thankfully CLE is using him better than Miami. This thread has been like watching a bunch of clowns get out of a tiny car.
2017 Champion - DLF Hall of Fame League - 16 Team | 1 PPR | 1QB-2WR/2RB/1TE/2FL

User avatar
Goddard
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 18932
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:21 am

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Goddard » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:46 pm

Some people were still convinced that Parker was better than Landry just less than a year ago.

Online
User avatar
skip
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 18363
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 1:35 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby skip » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:33 pm

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:48 pm
Yards Per Reception wasn't the focus, since that includes YAC. It was Yards at the Catch, which Landry has usually ranked low in for four seasons. I'm not sure what the number is this year, but I'd assume it's higher so far. That's encouraging. I'm happy to be wrong about it though.
That's a rather strange stat to use... Jerry Rice made his living on the 5-7 yard slant and was long considered the best WR ever. Why are we dismissing yac... Isn't that solely on the WR and doesn't factor in the kind of route they were asked to run?
Casinos Aren't Built on the Backs of the Winners

Cameron Giles
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7177
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:42 am

skip wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:33 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:48 pm
Yards Per Reception wasn't the focus, since that includes YAC. It was Yards at the Catch, which Landry has usually ranked low in for four seasons. I'm not sure what the number is this year, but I'd assume it's higher so far. That's encouraging. I'm happy to be wrong about it though.
That's a rather strange stat to use... Jerry Rice made his living on the 5-7 yard slant and was long considered the best WR ever. Why are we dismissing yac... Isn't that solely on the WR and doesn't factor in the kind of route they were asked to run?
Because yards at the catch is a result of the route ran. It's not much different than targeted air yards, which just adds up the yards a ball travelled to get to the receiver on each target. These aren't strange stats at all. If a player has 111 receptions in a season, but his air yards and yards at the catch are low, then his production is influenced a lot by high volume.

I'm not saying yac doesn't matter at all but it can bloat yards per reception. None of this has been a problem so far in Cleveland, though it's just 3 games.

ericanadian
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4255
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby ericanadian » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:47 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:42 am
skip wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:33 pm
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:48 pm
Yards Per Reception wasn't the focus, since that includes YAC. It was Yards at the Catch, which Landry has usually ranked low in for four seasons. I'm not sure what the number is this year, but I'd assume it's higher so far. That's encouraging. I'm happy to be wrong about it though.
That's a rather strange stat to use... Jerry Rice made his living on the 5-7 yard slant and was long considered the best WR ever. Why are we dismissing yac... Isn't that solely on the WR and doesn't factor in the kind of route they were asked to run?
Because yards at the catch is a result of the route ran. It's not much different than targeted air yards, which just adds up the yards a ball travelled to get to the receiver on each target. These aren't strange stats at all. If a player has 111 receptions in a season, but his air yards and yards at the catch are low, then his production is influenced a lot by high volume.

I'm not saying yac doesn't matter at all but it can bloat yards per reception. None of this has been a problem so far in Cleveland, though it's just 3 games.
So are you using this to evaluate the talent of the receiver or just the expected production levels in the given offense?
The Jolly Rodgers - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Carr, Kelly
RB - Gordon, Martin, Montgomery, Penny, Foreman, Booker, Guice, Darkwa
WR - Julio, Landry, C. Davis, Watkins, C. Williams
TE - Kelce, Henry, Andrews
LB - Kuechly, Lee
DL - Ansah, Suh, Hunter
DB - D. James, Berry, Baker
K - Just a stupid kicker

Cameron Giles
Legend
Legend
Posts: 7177
Joined: Sat Sep 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Re: Jarvis Landry - Should You Care?

Postby Cameron Giles » Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:56 am

ericanadian wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 6:47 am
Cameron Giles wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 5:42 am
skip wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:33 pm


That's a rather strange stat to use... Jerry Rice made his living on the 5-7 yard slant and was long considered the best WR ever. Why are we dismissing yac... Isn't that solely on the WR and doesn't factor in the kind of route they were asked to run?
Because yards at the catch is a result of the route ran. It's not much different than targeted air yards, which just adds up the yards a ball travelled to get to the receiver on each target. These aren't strange stats at all. If a player has 111 receptions in a season, but his air yards and yards at the catch are low, then his production is influenced a lot by high volume.

I'm not saying yac doesn't matter at all but it can bloat yards per reception. None of this has been a problem so far in Cleveland, though it's just 3 games.
So are you using this to evaluate the talent of the receiver or just the expected production levels in the given offense?
Landry is a good receiver. The purpose was to ask if it was concerning that his four years in the NFL have been super-reliant on low target depth. And if it was, what happens if the volume of those targets decreases in the same role.

So far the numbers are day and night, and Cleveland is using him as a completely different player.


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: btv802, davingill91, Google Adsense [Bot], juke05, skip, SteveMaddensShoes, thebeast and 10 guests