Worried about? Sammy edition...

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lukkynumber13
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby lukkynumber13 » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:52 am

nathanq42 wrote: Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:46 am I wonder if Sammy Watkins believes in this math...
Hahaha :lol: :lol:
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Plank » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:56 am

Yeah, I've been trying to buy him everywhere I can, I keep seeing Goff taking deep shots to him no matter who is covering him and damn near hitting him .. the pass protection is good in LAR, so there will be more opportunity to hit those deep shots .. when they start connecting, that offense will be the best in the League ..
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby steelman » Fri Oct 27, 2017 10:09 pm

nathanq42 wrote: Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:27 pm Watkins 'frustrated' about lack of targets in Rams' offense
https://www.thescore.com/news/1396165

"He's happy to be with a Rams squad that appears to be on the rise."

Noooooooooooo
I wouldn't put too much into those comments. He's clearly frustrated but is saying the right things. If he continues to be ignored on the field, he's unlikely to agree to a new deal with them, unless they overpay, which they probably won't

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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Generic Username » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:07 am

A TD...on just 2 targets...yay?

I'm bumping again due to genuine intrigue/curiosity in the enigma that is Sammy Watkins as a NFL WR. The Bills invested heavy draft capital to acquire him and proceeded to use him sparingly (granted, injuries played a role). Then the Rams use what I'd consider sizable draft capital for him in a trade (due to his being a UFA) and proceed to, again, use him sparingly.

The arguments prior were developmental hinderance due to injuries and team/game script limitations. Now on a new team, with the #1 offense in the league, the arguments range from learning a new system/QB to decoy.

I'm not at all coming from a "he sucks, time to come around to it" angle, because I don't believe that. But something is amiss. Maybe he is being misused by 2 different teams, maybe he isn't a WR1 in fantasy and real life application (even when drawing top coverage, they'd get more targets as a rule), maybe he says screw all of you and picks a new team in the off season...can his body of work command much other than an Alshon Jeffery type deal?

Anywho, as both an owner in some leagues and buyer in others, can Sammy honestly command much more than a mid 1st right now?

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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby btv802 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:33 am

Generic Username wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:07 am The Bills invested heavy draft capital to acquire him and proceeded to use him sparingly (granted, injuries played a role).
I see the part where you mention the Bills using him sparingly, and the part about injuries playing a role. In his first two seasons in the NFL Sammy was the 33rd most targeted receiver of all time, had 23rd most yards of all time, 29th most TDs of all time. Then he broke his foot and missed most of 2016. Just want to make sure we are talking about facts here. He wasn't used sparingly by the Bills.

As far as his dynasty value...if you believe in him it's not a great time to be selling. If you don't I doubt anybody willing to pay much more than a mid 1st. McDowell and Curtis were recommending buying him for a late 1st this week on their podcast.
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QB: R. Wilson, T. Brady, K. Cousins
RB: M. Gordon, D. Cook, T. Coleman, J. McKinnon, I. Smith
WR: B. Cooks, J. Jones, A.J. Green, S. Watkins, M. Williams, M. Valdes-Scantling, J. Ross, M. Lee, T. Taylor, P. Richardson
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby maxhyde » Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 am

btv802 wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:33 am
Generic Username wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:07 am The Bills invested heavy draft capital to acquire him and proceeded to use him sparingly (granted, injuries played a role).
I see the part where you mention the Bills using him sparingly, and the part about injuries playing a role. In his first two seasons in the NFL Sammy was the 33rd most targeted receiver of all time, had 23rd most yards of all time, 29th most TDs of all time. Then he broke his foot and missed most of 2016. Just want to make sure we are talking about facts here. He wasn't used sparingly by the Bills.

As far as his dynasty value...if you believe in him it's not a great time to be selling. If you don't I doubt anybody willing to pay much more than a mid 1st. McDowell and Curtis were recommending buying him for a late 1st this week on their podcast.
Good luck with that...pay as little as you can but I am confident he isn't coming that cheap most places. Lets not pretend his #'s are great or that you can count on him as a starter but seriously I would be shocked if you can buy Watkins in dynasty leagues for a single late 1st.

I would recommend buying Cooper/Diggs for a late 1st's too but that doesn't mean they are being sold anywhere for that
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby btv802 » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:48 am

maxhyde wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 amGood luck with that...pay as little as you can but I am confident he isn't coming that cheap most places. Lets not pretend his #'s are great or that you can count on him as a starter but seriously I would be shocked if you can buy Watkins in dynasty leagues for a single late 1st.

I would recommend buying Cooper/Diggs for a late 1st's too but that doesn't mean they are being sold anywhere for that
Haha yeah I agree with you 100%. One of my league mates pointed out the advice on the pod and I was kinda surprised. I listened to that pod this morning and was also mentioned we can be buying Hopkins for a pair of '18 1sts...that's all fine and dandy but like you said good luck with that. Maybe you'll find somebody who is new to this and will make a bad decision based on the success of the 2017 rookie class, but this is my 2nd year of playing dynasty and I've read/seen enough to decide that I'm totally off of over-valuing rookie picks.
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WR: B. Cooks, J. Jones, A.J. Green, S. Watkins, M. Williams, M. Valdes-Scantling, J. Ross, M. Lee, T. Taylor, P. Richardson
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Plank » Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 am

This is where you can really look at a guys roster and make a decision .. if Sammy is extra, meaning that owner has 4 very viable starters, than no, you are not going to get him cheap ..

But if an owner is struggling with start/sit, through bye weeks, and/or WR's not quite working out (ie, needs production), than I would think you might be able to get him, if you package a decent starter with a late 1st .. and/or needs a RB or TE more than a WR .. situations like this are great opportunities to add talent .. an owner could be incredibly aggravated if they are trying to "depend" on Sammy at the moment .. boom/bust, last few years of injuries ..

But again, if he's hanging out on a well developed roster, you can probably forget about it, that guy has a barrel and would love to drag it out ....

As there are many ways to play fantasy, I'm consistently baffled by other owners who think because Sammy or Doctson are my WR7 or 8, that I don't need them and can get plucked cheap? .. It is quite annoying, if you want my WR7, 8, 9, 10 .. they still cost the same silly people .. :P
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Life of Pablo » Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:10 pm

Plank wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:54 am This is where you can really look at a guys roster and make a decision .. if Sammy is extra, meaning that owner has 4 very viable starters, than no, you are not going to get him cheap ..

But if an owner is struggling with start/sit, through bye weeks, and/or WR's not quite working out (ie, needs production), than I would think you might be able to get him, if you package a decent starter with a late 1st .. and/or needs a RB or TE more than a WR .. situations like this are great opportunities to add talent .. an owner could be incredibly aggravated if they are trying to "depend" on Sammy at the moment .. boom/bust, last few years of injuries ..

But again, if he's hanging out on a well developed roster, you can probably forget about it, that guy has a barrel and would love to drag it out ....

As there are many ways to play fantasy, I'm consistently baffled by other owners who think because Sammy or Doctson are my WR7 or 8, that I don't need them and can get plucked cheap? .. It is quite annoying, if you want my WR7, 8, 9, 10 .. they still cost the same silly people .. :P
Lmao I just had to comment because Sammy and Doctson are literally my #7 and #8 WR's..... AJG Evans Nuk Diggs KAllen ARob Sammy Doctson. I got lucky to end up with that situation, but as a result I have lost count of all the extreme lowball offers I've received for everyone besides AJG Evans and (sometimes) Nuk. "Dude you're never gonna start him anyway, at least [insert aging RB3 here] can help you win a ship!" No, no he can't.
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Cameron Giles » Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:47 pm

Generic Username wrote: Tue Nov 07, 2017 8:07 am A TD...on just 2 targets...yay?

I'm bumping again due to genuine intrigue/curiosity in the enigma that is Sammy Watkins as a NFL WR. The Bills invested heavy draft capital to acquire him and proceeded to use him sparingly (granted, injuries played a role). Then the Rams use what I'd consider sizable draft capital for him in a trade (due to his being a UFA) and proceed to, again, use him sparingly.

The arguments prior were developmental hinderance due to injuries and team/game script limitations. Now on a new team, with the #1 offense in the league, the arguments range from learning a new system/QB to decoy.

I'm not at all coming from a "he sucks, time to come around to it" angle, because I don't believe that. But something is amiss. Maybe he is being misused by 2 different teams, maybe he isn't a WR1 in fantasy and real life application (even when drawing top coverage, they'd get more targets as a rule), maybe he says screw all of you and picks a new team in the off season...can his body of work command much other than an Alshon Jeffery type deal?

Anywho, as both an owner in some leagues and buyer in others, can Sammy honestly command much more than a mid 1st right now?
Sammy wasn't misused by Buffalo. Sure, there were stretches where they could've used him more, but he was constantly targeted and very productive:

2014: 128 targets, 65/982/6
2015: 96 targets, 60/1047/6 (13 games)
2016: Injured, played eight games.

The Rams are using him as a decoy. Their top three receivers in Woods, Kupp and Gurley, are all running routes in the short/intermediate area of the field. Watkins going deep opens that game up for them, because you have to respect Sammy. He takes away the teams best CB and allows competent receivers to have favorable matchups.

They don't really give Sammy any easy routes to get going. Those plays go to Woods, Kupp and Gurley.

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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby Plank » Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:22 pm

I don't mind less targets for Sammy right now, I'd like to see him get the volume that keeps him healthy .. right now since the Rams are doing so well in Pass Pro, I have them ranked 3rd in the League in Pass Blocking EFF, I don't mind him getting explosive plays and being match-up proof a bit, they really are throwing to him no matter who is in coverage .. his ceiling can be really outrageous if it starts clicking, and that's kind of what I'm in for .. I already have Nuk, Evans, target hog monsters seeing 10 to 11 looks a game, I need a guy that's going to go for 3 explosive plays for 167 and 2 TDs from time to time :)

You call him a decoy, I call him a very good deep threat. Good thing about Sammy though, is that we've seen him get a ton of targets in the past, so its like a deep threat +, real possession ability also which separates from other 9 route guys, the DJax, Goodwin, et al
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby hjernazian » Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 am

skip wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:21 pm
lukkynumber13 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:03 pm
lilpuppy99 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 12:57 pm Perriman has a better chance at this point than Sammy. Sammy is not a good football player. Wasn't in college, hasn't been in the pros. Athletic advantage can make you look like something you are not when you are running go routes past everyone in college. I don't think even A Rodgers would make him fantasy relevant. Can't believe 10 points per game last year and 8 points per game thus far this year and guys expect a 1st rd pick in return for that garbage. You can never start him confidently, and more likely than not by acquiring him he will make your team worse. I'd be interested to see how many games he alone would lose for you with his 0 or 3 fantasy point weeks in your lineup while you could've instead started an Adam Humphries or Nelson Agholor, or Jeremy Kerley type player and won.
OMGosh the troll is strong with you, grasshopper
I have to say the idea that he wasn't a good football player in college is a bit insane seeing as he holds Clemson's single season receiving records in both receptions and yardage. Couple that with him being the #5 WR over the 2nd half of 2015 when he was with the Bills and healthy, this post was filled with bias not facts.
agreed. he's undeniably talented. combine with a top 10 QB, and someone not named J. Goff, and he has a chance. There's a real problem there when he's not the clear #1 on a team with a horrendous WR core. I own him in dynasty, paid a decent price for him, but when it came down to cuts for salary purposes, held on strong. There's no reason to dump him now if you are invested, or to think an owner is going to give him up for peanuts.
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Superflex, 1.0 point PPR

QB: P. Mahomes $5, C. Newton $20, B. Mayfield $2, D. Brees
RB: D. Johnson $54, N. Chubb $4, T. Coleman $4, D. Henry $14, I. Crowell $3, J. Richard $9, J. Adams $3
WR: A. Robinson $41, T.Y. Hilton $24, J. Landry $25, C. Davis $4, C. Godwin $4, D. Hamilton $3, K. Cole, S. Shephard $10
TE: E. Engram $4, D. Njoku $2, K. Rudolph $3, V. McDonald $4
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QB: T. Brady, M. Ryan, N. Foles
RB: K. Hunt, C. McCaffrey, D. Johnson, T. Coleman, S. Ware, D. Williams, Ito Smith, D. Sproles
WR: AJ Green, A. Robinson, A. Thielen, E. Sanders, G. Tate, S. Roberts
TE: J. Reed, J. Butt, M. Roberts, V. Davis, M. Williams
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby StableOfRBs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:06 am

hjernazian wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:13 am
skip wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:21 pm
lukkynumber13 wrote: Tue Oct 17, 2017 1:03 pm
OMGosh the troll is strong with you, grasshopper
I have to say the idea that he wasn't a good football player in college is a bit insane seeing as he holds Clemson's single season receiving records in both receptions and yardage. Couple that with him being the #5 WR over the 2nd half of 2015 when he was with the Bills and healthy, this post was filled with bias not facts.
agreed. he's undeniably talented. combine with a top 10 QB, and someone not named J. Goff, and he has a chance. There's a real problem there when he's not the clear #1 on a team with a horrendous WR core. I own him in dynasty, paid a decent price for him, but when it came down to cuts for salary purposes, held on strong. There's no reason to dump him now if you are invested, or to think an owner is going to give him up for peanuts.
Are we sure the problem just isn't Sammy? I believe he's got talent but I don't know if it's the kind of talent that requires a QB to force feed them targets like OBJ or Antonio Brown. As for the WR corps itself it's really not that bad compared to a lot of the other teams in the NFL right now, Woods isn't your typical #1 wideout and certainly hasn't played like it before but he's got as many yards as Crabtree right now and more than guys like Landry and Dez (side note, he has fewer catches and targets than each of those three) so it isn't like he's not putting up numbers and as a slot receiver there are a lot worse options than Kupp out there and the kid is still just a rookie. Not to mention that Goff is playing like a top 8 QB right now, he's 10th in passing yards, tied for 8th in TDs, tied for 8th in QB rating and 3rd in yards per attempt, dude is out there straight dealing right now.

The argument for Watkins has always been filled with asterisks and ifs, *if he could just stay healthy, *if he was on a better offense, *if he had a better QB (although I think Tyrod is much better than people give him credit for, but not the point). This is it. Watkins is healthy, he has a QB who is playing in the top quarter of the position and he's on the best offense in the NFL, all while averaging 4 targets, 2.5 catches, 41.5 yards and .4 TDs per game and there's literally 0 reason for LA to change what they're doing right now. So, what's the "real problem" here?
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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby trc » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:09 am

StableOfRBs wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:06 am
The argument for Watkins has always been filled with asterisks and ifs, *if he could just stay healthy, *if he was on a better offense, *if he had a better QB (although I think Tyrod is much better than people give him credit for, but not the point). This is it. Watkins is healthy, he has a QB who is playing in the top quarter of the position and he's on the best offense in the NFL, all while averaging 4 targets, 2.5 catches, 41.5 yards and .4 TDs per game and there's literally 0 reason for LA to change what they're doing right now. So, what's the "real problem" here?
They don't care about fantasy - they win games with the current game plan. Why should they change that?
If opponents start to focus on the short game instead, see Watkins become a targethog.

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Re: Worried about? Sammy edition...

Postby StableOfRBs » Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:28 am

trc wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:09 am
StableOfRBs wrote: Wed Nov 08, 2017 3:06 am
The argument for Watkins has always been filled with asterisks and ifs, *if he could just stay healthy, *if he was on a better offense, *if he had a better QB (although I think Tyrod is much better than people give him credit for, but not the point). This is it. Watkins is healthy, he has a QB who is playing in the top quarter of the position and he's on the best offense in the NFL, all while averaging 4 targets, 2.5 catches, 41.5 yards and .4 TDs per game and there's literally 0 reason for LA to change what they're doing right now. So, what's the "real problem" here?
They don't care about fantasy - they win games with the current game plan. Why should they change that?
If opponents start to focus on the short game instead, see Watkins become a targethog.
Yea that's 100% my point, the fantasy owners don't understand why Watkins isn't getting more work when what the Rams are already doing is working for them
Greek Mythology League - Heracles - 2QB/3RB/4WR/2TE/2Flex/2DT/2DE/4LB/2CB/2S/1DFlex:
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Marvel vs. DC League - Lords of Order - 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/1SFlex/2Flex/1DT/2DE/3LB/1CB/2S/1DFlex:
https://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2022/home/58114#1


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