Kaepernick vs NFL - Collusion

[Never Veto1]

My very simple point is this - He has more ability than some that are taking snaps in the NFL right now.

I agree with you here, he's probably good enough to be a back up somewhere, but when he first hit the market he wanted starter money. No one is going to pay him that, cause he's not a starter. Also no one is going to want a back up that brings a fire storm of media with them, ala Tim Tebow. By his own doing, he has created that storm, whether he had good intentions or not. He neither deserves or is entitled to play in the NFL.

You really think 32 teams (you can't say owners cause many teams are owned by several people, or a collective like the Packers) all got together and said "hey guys you know that Kaepernick fellow, lets stick it to him and nobody sign him"? So then you must think they also collude against Ray Rice? Different circumstance but the result is the same. He created a storm that no team wanted to touch. There isn't always a conspiracy, sometimes the squeeze isn't worth the juice.

So can he play, sure, as I back up I would say so, but does he deserve to? No, no team is obligated to work him out, let alone sign him.

[Reljac]

You really think 32 teams (you can't say owners cause many teams are owned by several people, or a collective like the Packers) all got together and said "hey guys you know that Kaepernick fellow, lets stick it to him and nobody sign him"? So then you must think they also collude against Ray Rice? Different circumstance but the result is the same. He created a storm that no team wanted to touch. There isn't always a conspiracy, sometimes the squeeze isn't worth the juice.

Don't forget:
Greg Hardy
Ryan Matthews
RGIII
Tim Teabow

Same was said about Vince Young a few seasons ago

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Also no one is going to want a back up that brings a fire storm of media with them, ala Tim Tebow.

You say that but Tim Tebow was brought into Eagles camp and given a chance to compete for a roster spot.

[Reljac]

Also no one is going to want a back up that brings a fire storm of media with them, ala Tim Tebow.

You say that but Tim Tebow was brought into Eagles camp and given a chance to compete for a roster spot.

Not sure that is substantially different that the teams that have reached out to Kaepernick. Seattle Brought him in in May.


I'm confident if he didn't protest publicly during the Anthem. You wouldn't see so many people out there trying to carry the water for a 30yr old QB with a career losing record, whose metrics got worse and whom was benched for Blaine Gabbert and later opted out of his contract in lieu of being cut.

[Concept Coop]

Is it collusion? Yes
Will he be able to prove it? No

It absolutely the rich white owners making a stand, but they also have the very best lawyers who will be able to make this go away, and with it, Kaps potential of every signing again. His NFL career is done, and we won't fully appreciate what he did for years to come.

This isn't rich white owners taking a stand. This is venture capitalists making a business decision. He's not worth the headache.

I personally applaud Kaepernick for standing up for what he believes in, and find the backlash pretty silly. I think he's a smart, quality guy. But it's just plain bad business to sign the guy, based on the sizable portion of the customer base who would feel alienated by it (whether that's justified or not).

[Concept Coop]

Also no one is going to want a back up that brings a fire storm of media with them, ala Tim Tebow.

You say that but Tim Tebow was brought into Eagles camp and given a chance to compete for a roster spot.

Not sure that is substantially different that the teams that have reached out to Kaepernick. Seattle Brought him in in May.


I'm confident if he didn't protest publicly during the Anthem. You wouldn't see so many people out there trying to carry the water for a 30yr old QB with a career losing record, whose metrics got worse and whom was benched for Blaine Gabbert and later opted out of his contract in lieu of being cut.

I think it is. A camp signing is still a signing. "Signing" is all the headline writers will care about, because that's all those against it will care about.

Look at the offense Denver had to run with Tebow at QB. There's no comparison between the two as players. Kaepernick is an NFL caliber QB, Tim Tebow is not.

[Never Veto1]

Also no one is going to want a back up that brings a fire storm of media with them, ala Tim Tebow.

You say that but Tim Tebow was brought into Eagles camp and given a chance to compete for a roster spot.

Fair enough, but he wasn't signed was he? Also Tebow's "fire storm" has pretty much subsided, apparently so much that I didn't even know he got a tryout. If Kaepernick were to get a tryout or signed the media would have a field day. ESPN would probably call in Kaepernick day and play a week straight of it on loop. So they can be partially to blame for him not getting signed. You can also blame everyone that seems to be so worried on whether or not he gets a job.

[Reljac]

Look at the offense Denver had to run with Tebow at QB. There's no comparison between the two as players. Kaepernick is an NFL caliber QB, Tim Tebow is not.

I disagree, he's quite unaccomplished when you really look at what he did do. I don't disagree that Tebow was not an NFL QB. He moreso goes back to the gimmicky period of the QBs are better runners than passers. He only broke 20 TDs passing once, and was near league bottom in ability to complete passes. There are plenty of Quarterbacks with strong arms that don't become great NFLers.

49ers acknowledged that their future was not with him, so they benched him to see what they had in Gabbert.


Is he better than a backup QB in the NFL? No, in my opinion, being non-divisive and not a media circus is incredibly important to being a backup in the NFL. The role is more of an assistant coaches role in many teams as they are not supposed to see the field.

[Jfever]

Seems logical to rank all 32 NFL starters and 32 backups and see where Kaep realistically slots in when you factor in the system and cost to sign. Several comments above that insist he'd be starting ahead of 1/3rd of the league so let's see where he fits. I think when you start to really analyze that, you'll find just a handful of spots he might make sense in.

I agree with this. The thing I don't know is the cost to sign, his expectations, or what his minimum would be to sign. So, I guess that makes it tough. But. Skill level wise, I think a few on this thread are a bit down on Kaep. I myself was never really high on him and only owned him in one league briefly. I've never been a SF fan and even when Kaep was lighting up NFL defenses, I personally wasn't a fan of his. I did however recognize his game changing skill set. I like the Carolina back up idea. It makes a lot of sense from a skill set perspective and scheme perspective. (nice take on that one).

I get it and yeah, I understand where the skill set negativity comes from. He never was an elite pocket passer. Some of that is explainable due to the situation around him, the system, and the coaching staff, etc. Some of it is on his experience level, habits and tendencies. But... thinking through the current and up to date NFL starting 32 Qb's. Who is Kaep definitely behind based off of skill set, passing ability, and ONLY ON the field factors.

In no specific ranking order.

NFC W AFC W
1.R.Wilson 13.P.Rivers
2.C.Palmer 14. A.Smith
3.J.Goff 15. D.Carr
NFC E 16.Siemian (meh) - I'm not high on him at all but could understand him over Kaep
4. Dak
5.Eli AFC E
6.Cousins 17.Brady
7.Wentz 18.T.Taylor
NFC S AFC S
8.Brees 19.Mariota
9.Winston 20.Watson
10.M.Ryan AFC N
11.Cam 21. Ben
NFC N 22. Dalton
12.Stafford

So. In my opinion Kaep is equally as, or in some cases more talented on the field at this point (assuming he is in shape / I'm not sure about that at this point) (not looking too hard at specific systems btw) (Tebow was n ever an NFL caliber qb)- than starters Cutler, Hoyer, Bortles, Minnesota Qb, Huntley, Brissett, McCown, Kizer or Hogan, and Flacco. As far as current NFL backups - I'm assuming that Kaep would be an improvement over a majority of them.

Again, to be clear, I've never been a fan. I'm not biased by ownership or by being a fan of SF or even ever cheering for him when he was playing. I'm just calling it as I see it. Right or wrong, ability is ability and the 9 qbs that are currently starters that I listed are imo JAGs. Kaep would be in that tier for me. I'm simply surprised that in today's NFL an owner with some Balls hasn't stepped up.

[Reljac]

I like the Carolina back up idea. It makes a lot of sense from a skill set perspective and scheme perspective. (nice take on that one).

He would not be wanted here in Carolina. The players on this team are all about team first and have always worked hard to not center the attention on themselves. That's why the team leaders are some of the most respected players in the league like Kuechly and Thomas Davis.

And the fans here love Derek Anderson who's accepted less money to continue to play as a panther.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports ... 31736.html

[Never Veto1]

I like the Carolina back up idea. It makes a lot of sense from a skill set perspective and scheme perspective. (nice take on that one).

He would not be wanted here in Carolina. The players on this team are all about team first and have always worked hard to not center the attention on themselves.

Cam Newton

[dynastyninja]

There's not a single team that would benefit (all things considered) by signing Kaepernick. He will not win games for you. Simple as that.

Talent-wise, yes, he should have a job. Unfortunately for him, there are too many things not related to talent that make signing him a losing proposition. Regardless of what you think about him, any team that signs him would take a major hit and lose a lot of fans. Why on earth would they want to do that?

[Concept Coop]

Look at the offense Denver had to run with Tebow at QB. There's no comparison between the two as players. Kaepernick is an NFL caliber QB, Tim Tebow is not.

I disagree, he's quite unaccomplished when you really look at what he did do. I don't disagree that Tebow was not an NFL QB. He moreso goes back to the gimmicky period of the QBs are better runners than passers. He only broke 20 TDs passing once, and was near league bottom in ability to complete passes. There are plenty of Quarterbacks with strong arms that don't become great NFLers.

49ers acknowledged that their future was not with him, so they benched him to see what they had in Gabbert.

Is he better than a backup QB in the NFL? No, in my opinion, being non-divisive and not a media circus is incredibly important to being a backup in the NFL. The role is more of an assistant coaches role in many teams as they are not supposed to see the field.

Kaepernick is clearly better than a few guys currently starting and a lot of guys who are not. That makes him NFL caliber. If you want to argue that he's not worth the media attention--that's a differnt conversation. If it wasn't for his protest, he'd have a job playing QB in the NFL right now.

[Concept Coop]

I like the Carolina back up idea. It makes a lot of sense from a skill set perspective and scheme perspective. (nice take on that one).

He would not be wanted here in Carolina. The players on this team are all about team first and have always worked hard to not center the attention on themselves.

Cam Newton

Steve Smith or Cam Newton have been the face of the franchise going back a decade plus.

[Reljac]

If it wasn't for his protest, he'd have a job playing QB in the NFL right now.

If it wasn't for his protest, No one would would be talking about him or demanding he be given a job.

Before he lost his job in SF, tons of posts on these forums about what a bad QB he was. Yeah he worked in Fantasy because of his running, but that was it...