Vetoing Drops

[Quinty]

It sounds like the commish will have to spend the year educating the newbie. Hopefully he's a quick learner, or he leaves after the first year.

You said you are all IRL friends. Make sure that everyone has a little fun ribbing the guy as well.

You have 12 people that are ok with the settings. Keep the settings as they are. Just don't be surprised when people start cutting good players once the bye weeks start.

[sugbear65]

it takes a small edit, but this falls under my often used line that Bad trades(in this case drops) don't ruin leagues, bad owners do.
Educate the new owner, or find a replacement. Simply giving him Williams back or not doesn't solve the overlying problem, and doesn't prevent this sort of scenario from popping back up.

[dlf_jules]

If this is a decent money league, you need to educate the owner or cut him loose. If not, let him make his mistakes and then ridicule him, especially if you're all friends and you know he can take it.

[BigBawseRoss]

who gets the 3rd? you just skip his pick in the 3rd round? strange. id give him the player back and explain about player worth...unless you have short benches and/or most of the league is new to dynasty. hell im in year 4 of my one league and its incredibly irritating how dumb some of these guys are but it still seems like a balanced league

[jeaton6]

I can't believe all the posts that are pointing the finger at the commish for taking away the 3rd. Absolutely assinine. The guy should be hit with some penalty so he learns his lesson. Frankly, a 3rd is very kind. I'd probably have hit him up with a minimum of a 2nd.

1) He still loses less value than if he dropped Williams.
2) One individual in the league isn't given significant advantage due to the egregious drop.

People always trying to slam commish' around here rather than the owners who create the problem to begin with.

Signed, someone who isn't a commish.

[palevermilion]

I can't believe all the posts that are pointing the finger at the commish for taking away the 3rd. Absolutely assinine. The guy should be hit with some penalty so he learns his lesson. Frankly, a 3rd is very kind. I'd probably have hit him up with a minimum of a 2nd.

1) He still loses less value than if he dropped Williams.
2) One individual in the league isn't given significant advantage due to the egregious drop.

People always trying to slam commish' around here rather than the owners who create the problem to begin with.

Signed, someone who isn't a commish.

Here's the problem: if you want to give the guy a penalty, isn't the penalty of cutting a valuable rookie asset enough? Instead, in this scenario the owner essentially gets punished twice (from that owner's point of view): He's forced to keep a player he doesn't want AND he loses a draft pick. Also, it seems like in this case the commish just decided on a random penalty. If it's not in the rules, you can't randomly assign a penalty like docking a rookie pick.

[onetwothree]

Here's the problem: if you want to give the guy a penalty, isn't the penalty of cutting a valuable rookie asset enough? Instead, in this scenario the owner essentially gets punished twice (from that owner's point of view): He's forced to keep a player he doesn't want AND he loses a draft pick. Also, it seems like in this case the commish just decided on a random penalty. If it's not in the rules, you can't randomly assign a penalty like docking a rookie pick.

^Yep. Exactly this.

[The Vich]

This thread has become in my opinion two separate topics:
1. What to do with the Mike Williams drop? I'd have probably taken it to the league for a vote as whether to OFFER the waiver reversal after having a discussion about value, but not forcing the waiver to be reversed. The league may have decided to not make that reversal offer and let the newbie learn the hard way. Is there anything in the rules that states you can reverse a drop that wasn't accidental or did you just decide that on your own and feel that you can make rules up as you go along?
2. Is there something in your league rules that allows for penalizing a team/owner for what you feel is a stupid move? In this case it may very well be a stupid move, but if there is no rule about this you are way out of line penalizing an owner for running their team! Again, making you rules as you go along? How are you coming up with the penalty of the 3rd round pick? Arbitrarily? What if a contending team did this exact same move and Mike Williams is the last man on his roster and he needed a bye week fill in? Would you force him to keep Mike Williams and start a player on their bye week? Or would you arbitrarily fine him a first round pick?

I understand your thought process on this in that this owner is losing value on his team and he most certainly is. Numerous posts have said that he could have received a third round pick for him. That's crazy - Mike Williams was probably the 1.06 in most leagues this year and his value has not dropped anywhere near a 3rd round pick. He certainly could have received good value by trading him and at this point the whole league should talk to him about value in a dynasty league and send him some Dynasty League 1.01 articles. Unless you have these rules covered in your league bylaws, I feel you've gone way off the reservation by making the decisions that you've made.

[Weeman]

The Vich thank you for coming up with solutions. I have read this thread 2-3x & it generally infuriates me.

I understand the Commissioners frustration but dont deviate from rules/laws. It should be a rule to let people learn from their mistakes. I would merely tell the owner to monitor Mike Williams value on forums prior to the injury & moving forward, give him reputable sites, calculators, podcasts, twitter anything!! To not make this mistake again. Educate your competition if you want a successful league. I understand the guy who picked him up profits a free player, that's also part of the game. No one has a crystal ball. This guy can make/win in the playoffs & probably the league. Give rainman a chance. Let him suffer the mistake, it'll make him stronger. If it doesn't replace him.

[jgoodie24]

As the commish of my league, I would find out if the guy understood what he was doing and then reverse the move or let it ride based on that. If it's a noob move based in ignorance, that's a reversal without giving it a second thought. I do the same thing with all the guys in my league whenever we add a new mechanic. We're trying a taxi squad mechanic this year (I'm calling them redshirts) - had one of my league members botch it up week 1. Totally would have let him reverse it but it was Kareem Hunt getting the highest single player point total for the week and winning our weekly contest soooo redshirt burned in a blaze of glory.

[jeaton6]

I can't believe all the posts that are pointing the finger at the commish for taking away the 3rd. Absolutely assinine. The guy should be hit with some penalty so he learns his lesson. Frankly, a 3rd is very kind. I'd probably have hit him up with a minimum of a 2nd.

1) He still loses less value than if he dropped Williams.
2) One individual in the league isn't given significant advantage due to the egregious drop.

People always trying to slam commish' around here rather than the owners who create the problem to begin with.

Signed, someone who isn't a commish.

Here's the problem: if you want to give the guy a penalty, isn't the penalty of cutting a valuable rookie asset enough? Instead, in this scenario the owner essentially gets punished twice (from that owner's point of view): He's forced to keep a player he doesn't want AND he loses a draft pick. Also, it seems like in this case the commish just decided on a random penalty. If it's not in the rules, you can't randomly assign a penalty like docking a rookie pick.

Well no I don't think he's being penalized twice since Williams clearly has value and if he doesn't want the player he can go ahead and put him on the block and trade him away for more than the 2018 3 penalty.

I agree there needs to be some kind of rule in place for the penalty or at least something like is in most of my league bylaws that says the bylaws can't cover every scenario and the commish may need to invoke a unilateral ruling if necessary.

[sloth8u]

Well no I don't think he's being penalized twice since Williams clearly has value and if he doesn't want the player he can go ahead and put him on the block and trade him away for more than the 2018 3 penalty.

the problem with this thought process is that every drop would/could have value. no 1 person can determine value. williams could be k white. williams could be cp....you get the idea. somebody could have dropped lacy for carson.

[jman3134]

I'm not sure I would reverse it because I don't think it totally disrupts the competitive balance. That is the only time I would veto a drop (but I would try to avoid this whenever possible).

We had a similar situation emerge in the first year of my dynasty league a few years back. The concept of dynasty was new to all the owners and we hadn't voted on how many players we would keep. One of the teams was co-managed and one of the other managers dropped Jamaal Charles after he tore his ACL. He was immediately picked up off waivers, but I received a message that one co-manager wasn't aware of the format. Because I thought that it would disrupt competitive balance (this was before Charles' fall off), I allowed the team to retain its star RB. To the team that bid, I protected their pick top three in the randomized (not so random in this case) order draft and made this clear to owners.

[sloth8u]

^^^^are you saying that you locked in the guy grabbing charles off waivers....a top 3 pick?

[Samhain34]

If you're all friends in real life, it's one thing. Your friend needs to SUBSCRIBE to DLF and probably a couple others. I'm with you if he's a true newbie, but he needs to educate himself for the good of the league. I read about some of the trades on here and I just cringe. Leagues are better when everybody is a good owner.

Also, I'd consider going FAAB; I'm in one dynasty league with waivers (and a small bench) and somebody can literally wind up with a game changer of a player early in the season just for losing a couple games.