The problem with Amari

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StableOfRBs
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby StableOfRBs » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:11 pm

Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm
While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?
Generally when there are 2 good receivers on a team Norman tends to stay to one side of the field but even if they did have him shadow Cooper I wouldn't be worried, Cooper plays Jason Verrett twice a year (and gets shadowed by him most of the game against the Chargers) and averages about 75 yards and .5 a TD against the Chargers over the past two years. Granted I've always thought Norman was pretty overrated and benefited from hitting FA after a year where he enjoyed a very high-powered defense when Carolina was playing above their heads but at worst he's as good as Verrett and Cooper hasn't really had any issues with him.
12 Team .5 PPR, .2 PPCarry, TE 1PPR, 6 pt passing TDs, -3.5 per Int, 1pt/20 Return Yds
25 Player Rosters, keep 20, start 1QB 2RB 2WR 1FLEX 1TE 1DST

QBs: Andrew Luck, Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater
RBs: David Johnson, Melvin Gordon, Ty Montgomery, Doug Martin, Rob Kelley, De'Angelo Henderson, Mike Gillislee, James Conner, Austin Ekeler
WRs: Amari Cooper, OBJ, Alshon Jeffery, Demaryius Thomas, Josh Doctson, Jeremy Maclin, Cooper Kupp, Rashard Higgins
TEs: Jordan Reed, Jack Doyle, David Njoku, Jonnu Smith
DSTs: Cardinals

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 pm

StableOfRBs wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:11 pm
Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm
While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?
Generally when there are 2 good receivers on a team Norman tends to stay to one side of the field but even if they did have him shadow Cooper I wouldn't be worried, Cooper plays Jason Verrett twice a year (and gets shadowed by him most of the game against the Chargers) and averages about 75 yards and .5 a TD against the Chargers over the past two years. Granted I've always thought Norman was pretty overrated and benefited from hitting FA after a year where he enjoyed a very high-powered defense when Carolina was playing above their heads but at worst he's as good as Verrett and Cooper hasn't really had any issues with him.
First off, Verrett isnt in the same class as Norman.

Second, Verrett missed almost all of last year with an ACL and he didn't face Cooper once.
14 team PPR TE premium. 1 QB 1 TE Start 5 --- 0-3 RB 0-5 WR 0-5 TE + IDP
QB: Rivers, Winston
RB: Cohen, Conner, Henderson, McGuire
WR: Evans, Diggs, Baldwin, Landry, Cooper, Treadwell, Hollins, Meredith (IR)
TE: Engram, Henry, Howard, Kroft, Doyle, Ebron, Swoope

16 team TE premium 2 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB/WR flex 1 WR/TE flex + IDP
QB: Prescott, Trubisky, Glennon, Beathard, C Jones, Foles, Rush
RB: Gurley, Howard, Collins, Darkwa, Mack Brown
WR: Crowder, Ty Williams, J Matthews, Maclin, Richardson, Rogers, Butler, Malone
TE: Hooper, ASJ, Kroft, O'Leary, Heuremann, Travis, Hollister
IR: David Johnson, J Williams, C Henderson

DE: S Lawson, Spence, Peppers, Curry, Lynch, C Lawson
DT: Jones, A Robinson
LB: Marshall, Toomer, Schobert, R Wilson, Onwuasor, M Kendricks, Simon, Lee, Riley
CB: Smith, Trufant
S: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, Simmons, Kindred, Gibson

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby ImaRounder » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:29 pm

Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 pm
StableOfRBs wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:11 pm
Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm
While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?
Generally when there are 2 good receivers on a team Norman tends to stay to one side of the field but even if they did have him shadow Cooper I wouldn't be worried, Cooper plays Jason Verrett twice a year (and gets shadowed by him most of the game against the Chargers) and averages about 75 yards and .5 a TD against the Chargers over the past two years. Granted I've always thought Norman was pretty overrated and benefited from hitting FA after a year where he enjoyed a very high-powered defense when Carolina was playing above their heads but at worst he's as good as Verrett and Cooper hasn't really had any issues with him.
First off, Verrett isnt in the same class as Norman.

Second, Verrett missed almost all of last year with an ACL and he didn't face Cooper once.
Lol^^

I don't think Norman shadows amari. However, if he does amari might get two catches. I'd explore other options.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby StableOfRBs » Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:59 pm

Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:19 pm
StableOfRBs wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 7:11 pm
Space Cowboy wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm
While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?
Generally when there are 2 good receivers on a team Norman tends to stay to one side of the field but even if they did have him shadow Cooper I wouldn't be worried, Cooper plays Jason Verrett twice a year (and gets shadowed by him most of the game against the Chargers) and averages about 75 yards and .5 a TD against the Chargers over the past two years. Granted I've always thought Norman was pretty overrated and benefited from hitting FA after a year where he enjoyed a very high-powered defense when Carolina was playing above their heads but at worst he's as good as Verrett and Cooper hasn't really had any issues with him.
First off, Verrett isnt in the same class as Norman.

Second, Verrett missed almost all of last year with an ACL and he didn't face Cooper once.
My bad about the ACL, forgot how early he injured it, but Verrett's 2015 PFF grade was an 81.5, Norman's 2016 in his first season with the Skins was an 83.9 so I don't think they're that far off.

Either way I'm not worried about Norman, he may have only allowed a 50% catch rate last year but he gave up 13.3 yards per catch and 4 TDs (and factoring in the league high 14 penalties he drew it's closer to a 60% catch rate since some of those targets were held/interfered with) and even in week 1 this year with Alshon the clear #1 in Philly, Norman didn't even shadow him.

If you look at Ike Taylor's end of the year CB rankings he put Josh Norman at 5 but in the blurb he mentions how Norman didn't really shadow anybody and had a stupid amount of penalties, the only good thing he had to say about him and the reason he put him at 5 was because he played every snap, so that's something I guess (he also inexplicably put him ahead of CBs who are just clearly better than he is like Jenkins and Talib so I'd take those rankings with a huge grain of salt).
12 Team .5 PPR, .2 PPCarry, TE 1PPR, 6 pt passing TDs, -3.5 per Int, 1pt/20 Return Yds
25 Player Rosters, keep 20, start 1QB 2RB 2WR 1FLEX 1TE 1DST

QBs: Andrew Luck, Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater
RBs: David Johnson, Melvin Gordon, Ty Montgomery, Doug Martin, Rob Kelley, De'Angelo Henderson, Mike Gillislee, James Conner, Austin Ekeler
WRs: Amari Cooper, OBJ, Alshon Jeffery, Demaryius Thomas, Josh Doctson, Jeremy Maclin, Cooper Kupp, Rashard Higgins
TEs: Jordan Reed, Jack Doyle, David Njoku, Jonnu Smith
DSTs: Cardinals

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:38 am

Yet another pathetic no show from a soft WR. .8 points.
14 team PPR TE premium. 1 QB 1 TE Start 5 --- 0-3 RB 0-5 WR 0-5 TE + IDP
QB: Rivers, Winston
RB: Cohen, Conner, Henderson, McGuire
WR: Evans, Diggs, Baldwin, Landry, Cooper, Treadwell, Hollins, Meredith (IR)
TE: Engram, Henry, Howard, Kroft, Doyle, Ebron, Swoope

16 team TE premium 2 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB/WR flex 1 WR/TE flex + IDP
QB: Prescott, Trubisky, Glennon, Beathard, C Jones, Foles, Rush
RB: Gurley, Howard, Collins, Darkwa, Mack Brown
WR: Crowder, Ty Williams, J Matthews, Maclin, Richardson, Rogers, Butler, Malone
TE: Hooper, ASJ, Kroft, O'Leary, Heuremann, Travis, Hollister
IR: David Johnson, J Williams, C Henderson

DE: S Lawson, Spence, Peppers, Curry, Lynch, C Lawson
DT: Jones, A Robinson
LB: Marshall, Toomer, Schobert, R Wilson, Onwuasor, M Kendricks, Simon, Lee, Riley
CB: Smith, Trufant
S: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, Simmons, Kindred, Gibson

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Phaded » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:43 am

Space Cowboy wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:38 am
Yet another pathetic no show from a soft WR. .8 points.
lol yep.

Given, the Raiders as a whole just got physically dominated.
Far too lazy to keep updating my teams on this.. was outdated..

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:44 am

Phaded wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:43 am
Space Cowboy wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:38 am
Yet another pathetic no show from a soft WR. .8 points.
lol yep.

Given, the Raiders as a whole just got physically dominated.
Yes, and as you and I agree on, Cooper doesn't step up above anything and make plays. He takes what's there and seems content. There's 0 fight in him. He looks uninterested most times.
14 team PPR TE premium. 1 QB 1 TE Start 5 --- 0-3 RB 0-5 WR 0-5 TE + IDP
QB: Rivers, Winston
RB: Cohen, Conner, Henderson, McGuire
WR: Evans, Diggs, Baldwin, Landry, Cooper, Treadwell, Hollins, Meredith (IR)
TE: Engram, Henry, Howard, Kroft, Doyle, Ebron, Swoope

16 team TE premium 2 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB/WR flex 1 WR/TE flex + IDP
QB: Prescott, Trubisky, Glennon, Beathard, C Jones, Foles, Rush
RB: Gurley, Howard, Collins, Darkwa, Mack Brown
WR: Crowder, Ty Williams, J Matthews, Maclin, Richardson, Rogers, Butler, Malone
TE: Hooper, ASJ, Kroft, O'Leary, Heuremann, Travis, Hollister
IR: David Johnson, J Williams, C Henderson

DE: S Lawson, Spence, Peppers, Curry, Lynch, C Lawson
DT: Jones, A Robinson
LB: Marshall, Toomer, Schobert, R Wilson, Onwuasor, M Kendricks, Simon, Lee, Riley
CB: Smith, Trufant
S: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, Simmons, Kindred, Gibson

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Oddball456 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:45 am

So, after last nights game are people still going to put Cooper into their line-ups week 4 against Denver? Clearly it depends on what options you have but in a PPR I could use Snead or JMatt instead. At the start of the year I figured Cooper was the one guy for sure I would be able to play each and every week regardless of match-up.

Long term I am not too worried, but that one drop he had last night was just ugly.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:49 am

Oddball456 wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 7:45 am
So, after last nights game are people still going to put Cooper into their line-ups week 4 against Denver? Clearly it depends on what options you have but in a PPR I could use Snead or JMatt instead. At the start of the year I figured Cooper was the one guy for sure I would be able to play each and every week regardless of match-up.

Long term I am not too worried, but that one drop he had last night was just ugly.
He's never done anything vs Denver. They're too smart and physical for him.

2015 4/47
2015 0/0 on 8 targets
2016 6/56 (wow!)
2016 4/39/1 (week 17 Denver probably sat their CBs hence the TD)
14 team PPR TE premium. 1 QB 1 TE Start 5 --- 0-3 RB 0-5 WR 0-5 TE + IDP
QB: Rivers, Winston
RB: Cohen, Conner, Henderson, McGuire
WR: Evans, Diggs, Baldwin, Landry, Cooper, Treadwell, Hollins, Meredith (IR)
TE: Engram, Henry, Howard, Kroft, Doyle, Ebron, Swoope

16 team TE premium 2 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB/WR flex 1 WR/TE flex + IDP
QB: Prescott, Trubisky, Glennon, Beathard, C Jones, Foles, Rush
RB: Gurley, Howard, Collins, Darkwa, Mack Brown
WR: Crowder, Ty Williams, J Matthews, Maclin, Richardson, Rogers, Butler, Malone
TE: Hooper, ASJ, Kroft, O'Leary, Heuremann, Travis, Hollister
IR: David Johnson, J Williams, C Henderson

DE: S Lawson, Spence, Peppers, Curry, Lynch, C Lawson
DT: Jones, A Robinson
LB: Marshall, Toomer, Schobert, R Wilson, Onwuasor, M Kendricks, Simon, Lee, Riley
CB: Smith, Trufant
S: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, Simmons, Kindred, Gibson

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Phaded » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:11 am

I would bench Cooper against the Broncos.
As Space Cowboy said, he is historically unimpressive.

Even "if" he gets open; with the way he is trending there is a high chance of him dropping the ball.

10 receptions and 6 drops on the season.
Yikes.
Far too lazy to keep updating my teams on this.. was outdated..

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:54 am

Put Cooper on the block and got an instant offer. Bortles, breida, Lockett and rd 3 lol lol lol

Funny thing is in redraft that's about right for Cooper.
14 team PPR TE premium. 1 QB 1 TE Start 5 --- 0-3 RB 0-5 WR 0-5 TE + IDP
QB: Rivers, Winston
RB: Cohen, Conner, Henderson, McGuire
WR: Evans, Diggs, Baldwin, Landry, Cooper, Treadwell, Hollins, Meredith (IR)
TE: Engram, Henry, Howard, Kroft, Doyle, Ebron, Swoope

16 team TE premium 2 QB 2 RB 3 WR 1 TE 1 RB/WR flex 1 WR/TE flex + IDP
QB: Prescott, Trubisky, Glennon, Beathard, C Jones, Foles, Rush
RB: Gurley, Howard, Collins, Darkwa, Mack Brown
WR: Crowder, Ty Williams, J Matthews, Maclin, Richardson, Rogers, Butler, Malone
TE: Hooper, ASJ, Kroft, O'Leary, Heuremann, Travis, Hollister
IR: David Johnson, J Williams, C Henderson

DE: S Lawson, Spence, Peppers, Curry, Lynch, C Lawson
DT: Jones, A Robinson
LB: Marshall, Toomer, Schobert, R Wilson, Onwuasor, M Kendricks, Simon, Lee, Riley
CB: Smith, Trufant
S: Bethea, Reid, Tartt, Simmons, Kindred, Gibson

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby perkinsrooster » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:17 am

Cooper was on my bench last week and that is where I expect him to remain for much of the rest of the season.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby IR1 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:26 am

Space Cowboy wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:54 am
Put Cooper on the block and got an instant offer. Bortles, breida, Lockett and rd 3 lol lol lol

Funny thing is in redraft that's about right for Cooper.
Last year, in the last year of the keeper cycle, Cooper got traded for Cole Beasley
10Team PPR-QB/RB/WR/WR/TE/PK/flex-DT/DE/DE/LB/LB/LB/CB/CB/S/S/flex
Winston, Cousins/ Mixon, Ingram, Murray,Crowell, Foreman, Kamara /AJG, Arob, Hopkins, CDavis,Allen, Treadwell, Agholor/Kelce, Ertz, Howard/ Crosby
Dareus, Buckner, Jackson/Vernon, Heyward, Fowler, Barnett/TSmith, Collins, EKendricks, DJones,Marshall, Reddick/Jenkins, King,Ramsey, Poole/Burnett, Peppers, HSmith 18 1stx3

10 team QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/WR/TE/Flex
Winston,Wentz/ Ingram, Crowell,Lynch,Ellington, Smallwood, Clement, Vereen, Brown, Darkwa/ Evans, OBJ, Allen, Nelson, Watkins, Godwin, Shepard, Woods, Agholor, Allison/ Gronk, Bennet

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby dynastyninja » Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 am

I haven't watched any of Amari this year. Seems like people are down on him. Where is his value now? Is he still definitely three 1sts like most studs, or has he dipped below that?
Bye Every Week (14 team PPR, 1QB, 2 RB, 3WR, 1TE)
QB: Rodgers, Luck, Winston
RB: Bell, Lacy, Anderson, Ingram, Spiller, Miller
WR: Brown, Julio, DT, Dez, Evans, Jordy, Perriman, Randle, Tampa Mike
TE: Graham, Gronk

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby lukkynumber13 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 11:00 am

dynastyninja wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 10:31 am
I haven't watched any of Amari this year. Seems like people are down on him. Where is his value now? Is he still definitely three 1sts like most studs, or has he dipped below that?
I bet you could get him for 2 Firsts, if one of them is from a poor team
T1
ELI, Flacco
ZEKE/LYNCH, Foreman, Ellington, Darkwa, D Williams, M Jones, Yeldon
WATKINS/ALSHON/THIELEN/MACLIN, J-Matt, Wallace, Humphries, Dorsett, Rudolph, Hansen (AROB/Marshall)
KELCE, Engram, Watson, Shaheen, Maxx
-
DL: JORDAN/FLOWERS/ANSAH, Hughes, Addison, Short, M Jackson, Okafor
LB: CUNNINGHAM/GOODSON/E KENDRICKS, N Vigil, Schobert, James, Morrison, Simon, Nick K, C. Jones, Pullard (FREEMAN)
DB: ADDAE, FARLEY, POYER, Maye, Heath, Amos, Simmons

T2
MARIOTA, Cousins, McCown
GORDON/GURLEY/AJAYI, Mixon, Gore, T West, Hill, D Williams, Dayes
DEZ/CRABS/PARKER, Fitz, Pryor, M Bryant, M Williams, J-Matt, T Smith, Wallace, Zay, Reynolds, Rudolph, Strong, Hansen (AROB, Meredith)
DOYLE, Engram, Watson, Swoope, Dickson
-
DL: GRIFFEN/BUCKNER/HEYWARD, Leo W, Wilkerson, Ogbah, Okafor, Zettel, Tomlinson, Covington
LB: WRIGHT/GOODSON/HUMBER/KIKO, Klein, Hightower, Ford, Simon, McPhee, C Jones, Judon, Scarlett, Pullard, Mayo
DB: CHURCH/WARD/ADDAE, T Wilson, Simmons, Farley, C Davis


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