The problem with Amari

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jordanzs
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby jordanzs » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:06 pm

One of my dynasty buddies owned Amari in 2 leagues.

And in both leagues, he sold Cooper straight up for McCaffrery during our rookie drafts in May.

And he's happy with that decision still.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby ZPalmtree » Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:36 pm

jordanzs wrote: Tue Sep 19, 2017 6:06 pm One of my dynasty buddies owned Amari in 2 leagues.

And in both leagues, he sold Cooper straight up for McCaffrery during our rookie drafts in May.

And he's happy with that decision still.
I think that guy is crazy if he happily sold him twice for CMC

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby JoshGordonsDealer » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:17 pm

I don't understand the concern surrounding a guy who, at 21 and 22, posted thousand yard seasons. The drops and lack of redzone targets are concerns, but if he never gets better than he was last season, he's going to post top-18 numbers for the next eight years. Barring injury, that's the worst case scenario for Amari.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:25 pm

The frustrating thing for me, and I own him on one of my teams, is that when I watched his college tape he seemed like a guy with good hands (apparently he had some dropsies but I didn't think it was a big deal), good athleticism, good routes. I thought for sure he was going to rack up a ton of catches, possibly even as soon as his rookie year. 72 and 83 receptions is great for anyone's first 2 seasons but my expectations were honestly higher than that. If you told me he wouldn't hit 90 receptions or so by his 3rd season I would be like, well something has gone horribly wrong. It's kind of like how everyone thought Dalvin Cook was this super elusive agile guy and he tested like a turd at the combine agility drills. He's still might be good, but... not really quite what you were expecting.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby lukkynumber13 » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:39 pm

Sold him last night for Dez+

Not because I'm down on Amari, but I'm higher on Dez than apparently most people.
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
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HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
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TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby mclilj » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:42 pm

Phaded wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:58 pm
Raymond1974 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:44 pm he scored last week and put up 17 points in MFL. With more targets he'll put up numbers.
If he wants more targets he should:

a) Get open more
b) Drop less
c) Do more with what he does get
d) Not get outplayed by Crabtree

Crab only had 1 more target in this game and dramatically outperformed Coop.
I agree that at their respective values crabtree is a better buy but he's not an outright better wr... c'mon man.... Cooper is drawing the top corners and double teams making Crab's life easy. If crab is better at anything it's in the redzone which skews numbers but Amari is going to be just fine long term and i still have him as a top 10 dynasty asset.
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2QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 3RWT 0PPR 8Teams
QBs: Brady, Wentz, Prescott, Trubisky
RBs: Gurley, Cook, Lindsay, Henry, Lewis, Hyde, Murray
WRs: Hill, Cooper, ARobinson, Sutton, Fitzgerald, TSmith(NO), Parker, Cain
TEs: Kelce, Burton, Engram
Def: Rams
K:
2019 Picks 3, 4
2020 Picks: 3, 3, 4

Team 2:
2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 2WRT 1PPR 8TEAMS
QBs: Mahomes, Wentz, Lock, Carr, Mariota
WRs: MThomas, DAdams, ACooper, OBJ, Kupp, RAnderson, Renfro, Shepherd, Agholor, JMeyers
RBs: Mixon, Henry, Drake, JK Dobbins, Akers, Howard, McKinnon, Hyde, Pollard, DThompson
TEs: Waller, Engram, Graham, Eifert
K: Zeurlein
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Sorry, getting in on this discussion late but I wanted to address something I've seen repeatedly in this thread (and this forum in general). People keep comparing players' production in their Xth season as opposed to their production at age Y. Jones came in to the league a year older than Cooper was when he started. Therefore, in Jones' 3rd year, he was a year ahead in terms of age, physical maturity and experience than Cooper is in his 3rd year. A good example of this is Kupp. The guy is having a tremendous first couple games. But you can't directly compare a 24 year old rookie to a 21 year old rookie. The 24 year old rookie should be better (all things being equal). If you want a true apples to apples comparison, you compare Cooper's 2nd year to Jones' 1st, and this year to Jones' 2nd.

Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.

As to Cooper, I'm seeing a lot of re-draft mentality applied to this 23 year old receiver who has done very well his first 2 years. While he may never turn into Jones or AB, he's definitely on the short list of 23 and under players that can reasonably be expected to enter that territory. In the midwest I don't get to watch him play a lot but he's looked good when I had the opportunity to see him. I think the Marvin Harrison comparison above was spot on for this kid. I see very good things on the horizon for him. Can't wait to see what he does when he physically peaks in 3-4 years (yes, it's still that far away) and Carr is more seasoned.
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QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby whodunnit » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:10 pm

Mefisto wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm Sorry, getting in on this discussion late but I wanted to address something I've seen repeatedly in this thread (and this forum in general). People keep comparing players' production in their Xth season as opposed to their production at age Y. Jones came in to the league a year older than Cooper was when he started. Therefore, in Jones' 3rd year, he was a year ahead in terms of age, physical maturity and experience than Cooper is in his 3rd year. A good example of this is Kupp. The guy is having a tremendous first couple games. But you can't directly compare a 24 year old rookie to a 21 year old rookie. The 24 year old rookie should be better (all things being equal). If you want a true apples to apples comparison, you compare Cooper's 2nd year to Jones' 1st, and this year to Jones' 2nd.

Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.

As to Cooper, I'm seeing a lot of re-draft mentality applied to this 23 year old receiver who has done very well his first 2 years. While he may never turn into Jones or AB, he's definitely on the short list of 23 and under players that can reasonably be expected to enter that territory. In the midwest I don't get to watch him play a lot but he's looked good when I had the opportunity to see him. I think the Marvin Harrison comparison above was spot on for this kid. I see very good things on the horizon for him. Can't wait to see what he does when he physically peaks in 3-4 years (yes, it's still that far away) and Carr is more seasoned.
Fun Fact: Kupp is exactly one day younger than Watkins.
(I know you weren't hitting on them in this specific case, but in correlation to age vs time in the league, I thought it was fairly unique enough to bring up) Should be interesting to watch the development of a rookie who is only a day younger than his 'veteran' teammate.
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby ImaRounder » Wed Sep 20, 2017 1:30 pm

there is nothing wrong with amari. he's really really really good. he's just soft. a finesse wr if you will.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Phaded » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:01 pm

mclilj wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:42 pm
Phaded wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:58 pm
Raymond1974 wrote: Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:44 pm he scored last week and put up 17 points in MFL. With more targets he'll put up numbers.
If he wants more targets he should:

a) Get open more
b) Drop less
c) Do more with what he does get
d) Not get outplayed by Crabtree

Crab only had 1 more target in this game and dramatically outperformed Coop.
I agree that at their respective values crabtree is a better buy but he's not an outright better wr... c'mon man.... Cooper is drawing the top corners and double teams making Crab's life easy. If crab is better at anything it's in the redzone which skews numbers but Amari is going to be just fine long term and i still have him as a top 10 dynasty asset.
Do you watch the Raiders?
Based off this I can assume the answer is no.

Crab sees plenty of the top corner and double coverages too.

They are not 1 & 2.
They are 1a & 1b.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby GridironGuerilla » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pm

Mefisto wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby ZPalmtree » Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:38 pm

GridironGuerilla wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pm
Mefisto wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
LOVE this.
I think the majority of people who say they would rather have Crabs over Coop, are referring to their respected values, I moved Juju and a 2nd for Crabs in the same league I sold Cooper for Gronk Dez ++
Cooper might be the better long term asset. But if you're playing to win this season or even next Crabs should outscore Cooper. And he is significantly cheaper too acquire.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:57 pm

GridironGuerilla wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pm
Mefisto wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm

Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
LOVE this.
And this is why coopers value has always doubled crabtrees.

Bottom line is his perceived value is AB/Evans/OBJ but he's not that and a lot of people don't see him as that or ever becoming that.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Cameron Giles » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:05 pm

Space Cowboy wrote: Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:57 pm And this is why coopers value has always doubled crabtrees.

Bottom line is his perceived value is AB/Evans/OBJ but he's not that and a lot of people don't see him as that or ever becoming that.
The crazy part is that he's not that far off from becoming that type of player.

Sure, the upside is baked into the price, but that's what happens in dynasty when you're a young, highly productive WR who hasn't yet reached his elite upside. You're not going to get Cooper for WR2 prices unless he absolutely craps the bed or suffers a significant injury.

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Re: The problem with Amari

Postby Space Cowboy » Wed Sep 20, 2017 6:59 pm

While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?


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