The problem with Amari
Re: The problem with Amari
One of my dynasty buddies owned Amari in 2 leagues.
And in both leagues, he sold Cooper straight up for McCaffrery during our rookie drafts in May.
And he's happy with that decision still.
And in both leagues, he sold Cooper straight up for McCaffrery during our rookie drafts in May.
And he's happy with that decision still.
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Re: The problem with Amari
I don't understand the concern surrounding a guy who, at 21 and 22, posted thousand yard seasons. The drops and lack of redzone targets are concerns, but if he never gets better than he was last season, he's going to post top-18 numbers for the next eight years. Barring injury, that's the worst case scenario for Amari.
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Re: The problem with Amari
The frustrating thing for me, and I own him on one of my teams, is that when I watched his college tape he seemed like a guy with good hands (apparently he had some dropsies but I didn't think it was a big deal), good athleticism, good routes. I thought for sure he was going to rack up a ton of catches, possibly even as soon as his rookie year. 72 and 83 receptions is great for anyone's first 2 seasons but my expectations were honestly higher than that. If you told me he wouldn't hit 90 receptions or so by his 3rd season I would be like, well something has gone horribly wrong. It's kind of like how everyone thought Dalvin Cook was this super elusive agile guy and he tested like a turd at the combine agility drills. He's still might be good, but... not really quite what you were expecting.
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Re: The problem with Amari
Sold him last night for Dez+
Not because I'm down on Amari, but I'm higher on Dez than apparently most people.
Not because I'm down on Amari, but I'm higher on Dez than apparently most people.
TEAM A - 12T (22 R/U, 20 R/U, 19 R/U, 18 Champ, 17 R/U)
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
/
TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
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TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
/
TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
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TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA
HERBERT, Baker
BIJAN/KAMARA/MIXON, A Jones
HILL/AJB/DK/G WILSON/D Adams, Pittman, Z Flowers, Evans
KITTLE
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TEAM B - 16T, SF, TEP (22 R/U)
HURTS/MINSHEW, Cousins, D Jones
JT/JACOBS, Mostert, Gus E
HILL/MCLAURIN/DEEBO
KELCE/KITTLE, LaPorta
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TEAM C - 14T, SF (Joined in 22)
GENO
HENRY/A JONES, Gus E
HILL/DIGGS/K ALLEN
WALLER
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TEAM D - 14T, 1QB (Joined in 22)
MAHOMES, Goff
BIJAN/BREECE/POLLARD
CHASE/DIGGS/G WILSON/AIYUK, DJM, Pittman
KITTLE, Goedert
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TEAM E - 14T, SF, 2TE (Started in 22)
MAHOMES/T-LAW, Carr
BIJAN/CMC/SAQUON/POLLARD, Hall
HILL/AIYUK/EVANS/GODWIN, Hollywood, Thielen
MCBRIDE/ENGRAM, Goedert, Chig
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TEAM F - 16T (Joined in 23)
R WILSON, Minshew
SAQUON/KAMARA/MIXON, Monty
DIGGS/GODWIN/AIYUK/EVANS, Thielen, A Cooper
KELCE, Schultz
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TEAM G - 12T, SF & TEP (Joined in 23)
HERBERT/TUA, Kyler
BIJAN/MIXON, Spears, J Warren
JJ/G WILSON/WADDLE/OLAVE, Godwin, J Reed
LAPORTA
Re: The problem with Amari
I agree that at their respective values crabtree is a better buy but he's not an outright better wr... c'mon man.... Cooper is drawing the top corners and double teams making Crab's life easy. If crab is better at anything it's in the redzone which skews numbers but Amari is going to be just fine long term and i still have him as a top 10 dynasty asset.Phaded wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:58 pmIf he wants more targets he should:Raymond1974 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:44 pm he scored last week and put up 17 points in MFL. With more targets he'll put up numbers.
a) Get open more
b) Drop less
c) Do more with what he does get
d) Not get outplayed by Crabtree
Crab only had 1 more target in this game and dramatically outperformed Coop.
Team 1:
2QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 3RWT 0PPR 8Teams
QBs: Brady, Wentz, Prescott, Trubisky
RBs: Gurley, Cook, Lindsay, Henry, Lewis, Hyde, Murray
WRs: Hill, Cooper, ARobinson, Sutton, Fitzgerald, TSmith(NO), Parker, Cain
TEs: Kelce, Burton, Engram
Def: Rams
K:
2019 Picks 3, 4
2020 Picks: 3, 3, 4
Team 2:
2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 2WRT 1PPR 8TEAMS
QBs: Mahomes, Wentz, Lock, Carr, Mariota
WRs: MThomas, DAdams, ACooper, OBJ, Kupp, RAnderson, Renfro, Shepherd, Agholor, JMeyers
RBs: Mixon, Henry, Drake, JK Dobbins, Akers, Howard, McKinnon, Hyde, Pollard, DThompson
TEs: Waller, Engram, Graham, Eifert
K: Zeurlein
2020 Picks: 1.06 (JK Dobbins) acquired 1.09 OTC (Akers) 14 overall, 17 overall
2021 Picks: 2nd, 3rd
2QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 3RWT 0PPR 8Teams
QBs: Brady, Wentz, Prescott, Trubisky
RBs: Gurley, Cook, Lindsay, Henry, Lewis, Hyde, Murray
WRs: Hill, Cooper, ARobinson, Sutton, Fitzgerald, TSmith(NO), Parker, Cain
TEs: Kelce, Burton, Engram
Def: Rams
K:
2019 Picks 3, 4
2020 Picks: 3, 3, 4
Team 2:
2QB 2RB 3WR 1TE 2WRT 1PPR 8TEAMS
QBs: Mahomes, Wentz, Lock, Carr, Mariota
WRs: MThomas, DAdams, ACooper, OBJ, Kupp, RAnderson, Renfro, Shepherd, Agholor, JMeyers
RBs: Mixon, Henry, Drake, JK Dobbins, Akers, Howard, McKinnon, Hyde, Pollard, DThompson
TEs: Waller, Engram, Graham, Eifert
K: Zeurlein
2020 Picks: 1.06 (JK Dobbins) acquired 1.09 OTC (Akers) 14 overall, 17 overall
2021 Picks: 2nd, 3rd
Re: The problem with Amari
Sorry, getting in on this discussion late but I wanted to address something I've seen repeatedly in this thread (and this forum in general). People keep comparing players' production in their Xth season as opposed to their production at age Y. Jones came in to the league a year older than Cooper was when he started. Therefore, in Jones' 3rd year, he was a year ahead in terms of age, physical maturity and experience than Cooper is in his 3rd year. A good example of this is Kupp. The guy is having a tremendous first couple games. But you can't directly compare a 24 year old rookie to a 21 year old rookie. The 24 year old rookie should be better (all things being equal). If you want a true apples to apples comparison, you compare Cooper's 2nd year to Jones' 1st, and this year to Jones' 2nd.
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
As to Cooper, I'm seeing a lot of re-draft mentality applied to this 23 year old receiver who has done very well his first 2 years. While he may never turn into Jones or AB, he's definitely on the short list of 23 and under players that can reasonably be expected to enter that territory. In the midwest I don't get to watch him play a lot but he's looked good when I had the opportunity to see him. I think the Marvin Harrison comparison above was spot on for this kid. I see very good things on the horizon for him. Can't wait to see what he does when he physically peaks in 3-4 years (yes, it's still that far away) and Carr is more seasoned.
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
As to Cooper, I'm seeing a lot of re-draft mentality applied to this 23 year old receiver who has done very well his first 2 years. While he may never turn into Jones or AB, he's definitely on the short list of 23 and under players that can reasonably be expected to enter that territory. In the midwest I don't get to watch him play a lot but he's looked good when I had the opportunity to see him. I think the Marvin Harrison comparison above was spot on for this kid. I see very good things on the horizon for him. Can't wait to see what he does when he physically peaks in 3-4 years (yes, it's still that far away) and Carr is more seasoned.
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
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10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion
10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins
Re: The problem with Amari
Fun Fact: Kupp is exactly one day younger than Watkins.Mefisto wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm Sorry, getting in on this discussion late but I wanted to address something I've seen repeatedly in this thread (and this forum in general). People keep comparing players' production in their Xth season as opposed to their production at age Y. Jones came in to the league a year older than Cooper was when he started. Therefore, in Jones' 3rd year, he was a year ahead in terms of age, physical maturity and experience than Cooper is in his 3rd year. A good example of this is Kupp. The guy is having a tremendous first couple games. But you can't directly compare a 24 year old rookie to a 21 year old rookie. The 24 year old rookie should be better (all things being equal). If you want a true apples to apples comparison, you compare Cooper's 2nd year to Jones' 1st, and this year to Jones' 2nd.
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
As to Cooper, I'm seeing a lot of re-draft mentality applied to this 23 year old receiver who has done very well his first 2 years. While he may never turn into Jones or AB, he's definitely on the short list of 23 and under players that can reasonably be expected to enter that territory. In the midwest I don't get to watch him play a lot but he's looked good when I had the opportunity to see him. I think the Marvin Harrison comparison above was spot on for this kid. I see very good things on the horizon for him. Can't wait to see what he does when he physically peaks in 3-4 years (yes, it's still that far away) and Carr is more seasoned.
(I know you weren't hitting on them in this specific case, but in correlation to age vs time in the league, I thought it was fairly unique enough to bring up) Should be interesting to watch the development of a rookie who is only a day younger than his 'veteran' teammate.
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Re: The problem with Amari
there is nothing wrong with amari. he's really really really good. he's just soft. a finesse wr if you will.
Re: The problem with Amari
Do you watch the Raiders?mclilj wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:42 pmI agree that at their respective values crabtree is a better buy but he's not an outright better wr... c'mon man.... Cooper is drawing the top corners and double teams making Crab's life easy. If crab is better at anything it's in the redzone which skews numbers but Amari is going to be just fine long term and i still have him as a top 10 dynasty asset.Phaded wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:58 pmIf he wants more targets he should:Raymond1974 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 17, 2017 6:44 pm he scored last week and put up 17 points in MFL. With more targets he'll put up numbers.
a) Get open more
b) Drop less
c) Do more with what he does get
d) Not get outplayed by Crabtree
Crab only had 1 more target in this game and dramatically outperformed Coop.
Based off this I can assume the answer is no.
Crab sees plenty of the top corner and double coverages too.
They are not 1 & 2.
They are 1a & 1b.
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Re: The problem with Amari
LOVE this.Mefisto wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
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Re: The problem with Amari
I think the majority of people who say they would rather have Crabs over Coop, are referring to their respected values, I moved Juju and a 2nd for Crabs in the same league I sold Cooper for Gronk Dez ++GridironGuerilla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pmLOVE this.Mefisto wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
Cooper might be the better long term asset. But if you're playing to win this season or even next Crabs should outscore Cooper. And he is significantly cheaper too acquire.
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Re: The problem with Amari
And this is why coopers value has always doubled crabtrees.GridironGuerilla wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 3:31 pmLOVE this.Mefisto wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:57 pm
Next, I see people saying they'd rather have Crabtree over Cooper, even if they were valued the same. I have one question to you, where was Crabtree at this point in his career? Certainly no where near as good as Cooper is right now. Crabtree didn't even have a 1000 yard season until his age 25 season.
Bottom line is his perceived value is AB/Evans/OBJ but he's not that and a lot of people don't see him as that or ever becoming that.
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Re: The problem with Amari
The crazy part is that he's not that far off from becoming that type of player.Space Cowboy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 20, 2017 5:57 pm And this is why coopers value has always doubled crabtrees.
Bottom line is his perceived value is AB/Evans/OBJ but he's not that and a lot of people don't see him as that or ever becoming that.
Sure, the upside is baked into the price, but that's what happens in dynasty when you're a young, highly productive WR who hasn't yet reached his elite upside. You're not going to get Cooper for WR2 prices unless he absolutely craps the bed or suffers a significant injury.
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Re: The problem with Amari
While we're on the subject, is Norman gonna shadow Cooper? If so, can Cooper be started?
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