Vision

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
AussieMate
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Vision

Postby AussieMate » Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:06 pm

Are RBS born with it... Can they develop it.....
Do athletic players rely to much on their natural abilities to really develop it or is it just luck. How much of it is confidence in themselves or oline.
I'd like to start a discussion on the trait known as vision, what players just have "it", who was successful with/without it, can you be unathletic but still seem it with that extra second of comprehension etc.

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Re: Vision

Postby Vcize » Fri Sep 15, 2017 5:35 pm

AussieMate wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 4:06 pm
Are RBS born with it... Can they develop it.....
Do athletic players rely to much on their natural abilities to really develop it or is it just luck. How much of it is confidence in themselves or oline.
I'd like to start a discussion on the trait known as vision, what players just have "it", who was successful with/without it, can you be unathletic but still seem it with that extra second of comprehension etc.
I would think it is both. There are few enough great athletes that also have great vision that I have to think a lot of guys are failing to learn it at a younger age when their athletic abilities are so dominant that they don't need it, as you described above.

Sort of the same reason there are so few running QBs that are great pocket passers. When they can just run around in the backfield at lower levels they never need to learn to throw from the pocket, and it becomes a weakness when they get to the NFL and they can no longer dance around as easily.
Team 1 (12 team standard, q/r/r/w/w/f/t/k/d)
QB: Brees, Dak
RB: Bell, D Johnson, Fournette, Lynch, Peterson, Conner, Foreman, Drake, Hightower
WR: Brown, Diggs, Dez, Lockett
TE: Gronk, Graham
K: Tucker
Def: Jags, Texans

Team 2 (12 team PPR TE Premium, q/r/r/w/w/f/f/t/k/d)
QB: Luck, Wentz, Garropolo
RB: Hunt, Ajayi, Thompson, White, Foreman, Charles, Rodgers
WR: Beckham, Cooks, ARob, Benjamin, Moncrief, Richardson, Amendola
TE: Fiedorowicz, Watson, Miller, Fells
K: Lutz
Def: Denver

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AzTheCrow
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Re: Vision

Postby AzTheCrow » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:06 pm

High-level athletes sometimes talk about being in "the zone". A state of physical and mental being where you do everything right. The game slows down in front of you and everything clicks and every decision you make is the right one. You easily stay a step ahead of your competitors.
While most amateur athletes say this has maybe happened to them once or twice, it obviously happens more often for the most successful athletes. I think great vision is tied to "the zone". Of course, preparation, physical gifts, heart, and confidence play a big part in success. The greatest of superstars seem to be in the zone more often than not and I think great vision is a direct result of being in the zone. I don't think anyone can make themselves be in the zone, I think it just happens more often to some, for whatever reason.

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Re: Vision

Postby Mjvb5 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:56 pm

To me it's something that you naturally have but also something that can be developed. Like if you run the same play over and over eventually you get a feel for where you should end cutting and the like, to me this is like demarco kinda why he only succeeds in some schemes in my opinion because he has a feel for those schemes. But there are some people born with a natural feel for football and it just comes natural to them knowing where to be and such, to me bell seems like someone like this who just sits and waits for the hole and knows when to go.
12 team ppr 1qb 2rb 2wt 1te 1 flex 2lb 2db 2dl 1dflex
Eli manning,
A. Brown, Dez, TY Hilton,Crabtree, K. Aiken
D. Free, Howard, Ingram, demarco, AP, Powell
Kelce
Cam Jordan,Calais Campbell, Suh, Heyward, Sheard
Ogletree, Davis, Poz,Ragland, Woodyard, Misi, Demario Davis, Casillas
, Cyprien, Chancellor,

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Re: Vision

Postby Hottoddies » Fri Sep 15, 2017 7:31 pm

AzTheCrow wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:06 pm
High-level athletes sometimes talk about being in "the zone". A state of physical and mental being where you do everything right. The game slows down in front of you and everything clicks and every decision you make is the right one. You easily stay a step ahead of your competitors.
While most amateur athletes say this has maybe happened to them once or twice, it obviously happens more often for the most successful athletes. I think great vision is tied to "the zone". Of course, preparation, physical gifts, heart, and confidence play a big part in success. The greatest of superstars seem to be in the zone more often than not and I think great vision is a direct result of being in the zone. I don't think anyone can make themselves be in the zone, I think it just happens more often to some, for whatever reason.
Nailed it. The Zen of sports. If you have to think about it, it's too late.

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Re: Vision

Postby KMA » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:47 pm

I feel like Leveon Bell has this in bunches. The way he effortlessly picks and chooses his spots, accelerates and slows down at will. He is special. His vision is evident.
Sentenced to Redraft Duty

Tom Brady / Jameis Winston / Jay Cutler
Leveon Bell / Todd Gurley / Tarik Cohen / Doug Martin / Rob Kelley
Keenan Allen / Devante Parker / Corey Coleman / Corey Davis / Marvin Jones Jr.
Jasson Witten / Evan Engram

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Re: Vision

Postby sugbear65 » Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 am

I think that unfortunately it can't be taught, it's an instinct you either have or you don't. If you could teach it guys like C. Michael, J. McKinnon, or Bryce Brown could have been superstars, instead of athletic freaks who can only bump runs toward the sidelines every play.

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Re: Vision

Postby steelman » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:24 pm

sugbear65 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 am
I think that unfortunately it can't be taught, it's an instinct you either have or you don't. If you could teach it guys like C. Michael, J. McKinnon, or Bryce Brown could have been superstars, instead of athletic freaks who can only bump runs toward the sidelines every play.
Mostly this. Any skill can be improved with practice, but there are limits. Some guys just naturally have great vision. They see the game at a different speed than others do. LeVeon Bell is a great example of that. He clearly sees things that many other RB's simply dont' have the ability to see and never will. It can be taught and can be improved, but only to a certain degree.

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Re: Vision

Postby CK_ » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:26 am

It can be improved if you have it. But no it most certainly cannot be taught.
14 Team .5 PPR Return yards
QB: Mariota, Kizer, Jimmy G
RB: Elliot, Kelley, Prosise, Mixon, Carson
WR: C. Davis, J. Brown, M. Bryant, Lockett, Maclin, P. Rich, M. Mitchell(IR), Westbrook(IR)
TE: Gronk, Graham, Engram
K: Gostkowski
D/ST: NYG, JAX

2014: 2nd Place | 2015: 2nd | 2016: 7th :sick:

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Re: Vision

Postby Reljac » Mon Sep 18, 2017 7:59 am

AzTheCrow wrote:
Fri Sep 15, 2017 6:06 pm
High-level athletes sometimes talk about being in "the zone". A state of physical and mental being where you do everything right. The game slows down in front of you and everything clicks and every decision you make is the right one. You easily stay a step ahead of your competitors.
While most amateur athletes say this has maybe happened to them once or twice, it obviously happens more often for the most successful athletes. I think great vision is tied to "the zone". Of course, preparation, physical gifts, heart, and confidence play a big part in success. The greatest of superstars seem to be in the zone more often than not and I think great vision is a direct result of being in the zone. I don't think anyone can make themselves be in the zone, I think it just happens more often to some, for whatever reason.
This. I think there is a lot happening very quickly and it's a matter of how quick a player can observe and react to it. I don't think it's easily developed in a veteran. I think rookie's vision may not have always peaked, however, as they adapt to a faster game with even quicker decision making.

I know it can be developed in children, however. My daughters are in competitive gymnastics and it's very true there to. They teach mental reaction time from a very early age, by playing a game of assigning different poses to numbers and then quickly calling out the numbers. Winner of the game is quickest into each pose. This later helps in moving between skills in different events since there is little time to think through the process. That is when it has become 'natural'.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: Vision

Postby maxhyde » Mon Sep 18, 2017 8:09 am

For me this is part of being an athlete and is the ability to see the whole game and predict where guys will be at specific times. I call it mental processing and vision is a part of it. Every position and every team sport require some element of vision or ability to see your teammates and opponents. For some guys it is so natural they always seem to make the right play/move and others really struggle.

Some guys do it well enough they don't need to be great athletes to have success

I do think you can train yourself to be better at it but never be the same level as those guys that just have it naturally
DLF HOF League 16 team PPR
QB: Brees, Hackenberg
RB: David Johnson, Bernard, Blount, DMC, Ellington, Logan(IR), MLynch** JWilliams (2.14), McNichols(2.15), Tolbert
WR: DT, Jeffery,Cooper, MFloyd, Josh Gordon, Peake, Brice Butler, Switzer, KCole, Chester Rogers, Tommylee Lewis
TE: Rudolph, Hollister

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Re: Vision

Postby Kcarr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:23 am

sugbear65 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 am
I think that unfortunately it can't be taught, it's an instinct you either have or you don't. If you could teach it guys like C. Michael, J. McKinnon, or Bryce Brown could have been superstars, instead of athletic freaks who can only bump runs toward the sidelines every play.
Just because something can be taught does not mean everyone can learn it. Advanced calculus can be learned but there are those who cannot learn it. It goes back to this idea that people tend to have that athletic ability = potential at all times. It assumes that athletic ability cannot be improved but every thing else can be learned and therefore will be improved. Just because something can be learned does not mean it will be.
4th and long: ppr, 10 team, qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, dl, dl, lb, lb, db, db, dflex, dflex

QB: Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor, Jared Goff
RB: Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Theo Riddick, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Jamal Williams
WR: Alshon Jeffrey, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Keenan Allen, Jordan Matthews, Cole Beasley, Robby Anderson, Corey Davis, Breshad Perriman, Eli Rogers
TE: Eric Ebron, , David Njoku, Jack Doyle
K: Will Lutz
DL: Frank Clark, Danielle Hunter
LB: Luke Kuechley, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Mark Barron, Darron Lee
DB: Sean Davis, Morgan Burnett,

IR: Clayton Geathers, Quincy Enunwa, Raekwon McMillan

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Re: Vision

Postby Stevens61310 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 10:12 am

I think it can be taught or developed to a certain degree--but I think most of it is natural. This may be an imperfect example. But I liken vision among athletes with vision among drivers. Any lunkhead with the ability to get a car to DMV can probably get a license. Should they? Most people on the freeway shouldn't have a license--I have seen some fairly atrocious driving. I have driven a truck for the USMC. I have driven a truck for a Fortune 500 company. I driven my own personal car to deliver messages, letters, and small packages. And at one point I taught driving for a living. When it comes right down to it I am a good driver--probably the best I know. That being said there's a difference between getting in your car and going to work without paying attention to anything but what's right in front of you--and-- Making deliveries, delivering troops to a specific location, being aware of what's around you. When I am in the driver's seat my focus is always shifting. Front, left, right, behind me. If you are sitting in the truck with me and you ask me how many vehicles are on my right within 500 ft--I will be able to tell you. And you won't have even seen my eyes move--

With my example anybody can get a car and a license. But not everyone is fully aware of what's around them--. Some of that can be developed but a significant portion of that is just natural awareness--

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Re: Vision

Postby sugbear65 » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:17 pm

Kcarr wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:23 am
sugbear65 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 am
I think that unfortunately it can't be taught, it's an instinct you either have or you don't. If you could teach it guys like C. Michael, J. McKinnon, or Bryce Brown could have been superstars, instead of athletic freaks who can only bump runs toward the sidelines every play.
Just because something can be taught does not mean everyone can learn it. Advanced calculus can be learned but there are those who cannot learn it. It goes back to this idea that people tend to have that athletic ability = potential at all times. It assumes that athletic ability cannot be improved but every thing else can be learned and therefore will be improved. Just because something can be learned does not mean it will be.
But this isn't something as tangible as mathematic equations. I'd say it's more akin to a baseball swing. Sure you can improve technical aspects and improve what you already have. But when it comes to consistently putting wood to ball, some people just have a better natural instinct than others that can't be taught. Same for a golf swing, basketball shot, etc. So while sure some things can be taught HOW to do, actual execution may be a different story. For example, I have tried bowling. I have been taught how, with lessons even. I joined a league years back even and was bowling every weekend. And guess what? My A$$ stinks at bowling. I know what I'm supposed to do, how to hold the ball, where to stand, how to release. But it doesn't matter because I just don't have the natural inclination for it, and with practice and time the best I've ever been or will be is average. I have no Bowling Vision, and even with a willingness to learn and practice, it has not been taught to me.

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Re: Vision

Postby Kcarr » Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:42 pm

sugbear65 wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 4:17 pm
Kcarr wrote:
Mon Sep 18, 2017 9:23 am
sugbear65 wrote:
Sun Sep 17, 2017 5:48 am
I think that unfortunately it can't be taught, it's an instinct you either have or you don't. If you could teach it guys like C. Michael, J. McKinnon, or Bryce Brown could have been superstars, instead of athletic freaks who can only bump runs toward the sidelines every play.
Just because something can be taught does not mean everyone can learn it. Advanced calculus can be learned but there are those who cannot learn it. It goes back to this idea that people tend to have that athletic ability = potential at all times. It assumes that athletic ability cannot be improved but every thing else can be learned and therefore will be improved. Just because something can be learned does not mean it will be.
But this isn't something as tangible as mathematic equations. I'd say it's more akin to a baseball swing. Sure you can improve technical aspects and improve what you already have. But when it comes to consistently putting wood to ball, some people just have a better natural instinct than others that can't be taught. Same for a golf swing, basketball shot, etc. So while sure some things can be taught HOW to do, actual execution may be a different story. For example, I have tried bowling. I have been taught how, with lessons even. I joined a league years back even and was bowling every weekend. And guess what? My A$$ stinks at bowling. I know what I'm supposed to do, how to hold the ball, where to stand, how to release. But it doesn't matter because I just don't have the natural inclination for it, and with practice and time the best I've ever been or will be is average. I have no Bowling Vision, and even with a willingness to learn and practice, it has not been taught to me.
Once again this is an example where it can be learned, I am not going to believe the best bowlers in the world just naturally were that good at it and I know I am better at it than when I started but just like my math example, just like recognizing and processing information on a football field at full speed, just like shooting free throws just like anything your natural coordination, mental processing ability, whatever skills are required to execute that task limit how far you can improve
4th and long: ppr, 10 team, qb, rb, rb, wr, wr, wr, flex, flex, te, k, dl, dl, lb, lb, db, db, dflex, dflex

QB: Kirk Cousins Tyrod Taylor, Jared Goff
RB: Melvin Gordon, Ezekiel Elliot, Theo Riddick, D'Onta Foreman, James Conner, Jamal Williams
WR: Alshon Jeffrey, Amari Cooper, Sammy Watkins, Keenan Allen, Jordan Matthews, Cole Beasley, Robby Anderson, Corey Davis, Breshad Perriman, Eli Rogers
TE: Eric Ebron, , David Njoku, Jack Doyle
K: Will Lutz
DL: Frank Clark, Danielle Hunter
LB: Luke Kuechley, Bobby Wagner, Jordan Hicks, Mark Barron, Darron Lee
DB: Sean Davis, Morgan Burnett,

IR: Clayton Geathers, Quincy Enunwa, Raekwon McMillan


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