Diggs value

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SkinZ187
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Re: Diggs value

Postby SkinZ187 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:29 am

I just acquired him. Gave Demarco + Henry + Martavis for Diggs + CJA + Charles + Booker
10 Team 2QB Dynasty - 2QB 3RB 4WR 1TE 1FLEX(RB/WR/TE) K DST
1pt PPR, 4pts for Passing TD, 32 man roster
QB: Brees, Cousins, Flacco
RB: Hunt, CJA, Gillislee, Charles, Booker, Burkhead, West,
WR: Antonio, Julio, Diggs, Demaryius, Hogan, Arob, Edelman, Doctson, Amendola, John Brown, Jaron Brown, Roberts, Ellington, Mitchell
TE: Reed, ASJ, Davis, Jesse James, Vance Macdonald, Swoope

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Reljac
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Reljac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:47 am

Oddball456 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:27 am
This article is very good at breaking down WR1/WR2 weeks

https://dynastyleaguefootball.com/2017/ ... receivers/

Breaks it down to WR1 = 20.1 PPG and WR2 = 15.0 PPG where WR1 = top 12 and WR2 = top 13-24
Great Article, and affirms much of what several of were trying to say about his all or none gaming, ie streakiness at this point in his career, and despite the heavy GroupThink here.... Diggs may be #15 in % of WR1 performances, but he drops to #32 in % of WR2 or better appearances
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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dm1129
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Re: Diggs value

Postby dm1129 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:49 am

I traded for Diggs this past offseason. He was my #1 priority. In a very knowledgeable 32 team( 2 copy) league I initially offered a 1st and 2nd to both owners, both instantly rejected. I then offered 2 1sts, one owner instant reject and the second owner eventually accepted. Since the trade, I have spoken to the owner who gave up Diggs and he has clearly said he would not do the deal now....fwiw

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Re: Diggs value

Postby dm1129 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:55 am

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 11:47 am
Oddball456 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:27 am
This article is very good at breaking down WR1/WR2 weeks

https://dynastyleaguefootball.com/2017/ ... receivers/

Breaks it down to WR1 = 20.1 PPG and WR2 = 15.0 PPG where WR1 = top 12 and WR2 = top 13-24
Great Article, and affirms much of what several of were trying to say about his all or none gaming, ie streakiness at this point in his career, and despite the heavy GroupThink here.... Diggs may be #15 in % of WR1 performances, but he drops to #32 in % of WR2 or better appearances
There is nothing groupthink about Diggs' talent. Trying to say Diggs is streaky without context of the offense he has been playing in is pointless. No matter what spreadsheet you look at, Diggs has the talent to dominate a game. There are very few WRs entering their third season that you can say that about. What the future holds for the offense he is playing in, no one knows for certain, but the same can be said about any player including AB.

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Reljac
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Reljac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm

Oh lord, devolving into the Melvin Gordon thread, where we just reference "talent" and blame the rest of the offense.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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rubber_duck
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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:08 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm
Oh lord, devolving into the Melvin Gordon thread, where we just reference "talent" and blame the rest of the offense.
No. This is evolving from a box score generalization to a contextual analysis.

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Reljac
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Reljac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:25 pm

Using the word talent is not context, it's generalization unless you put substance around it. So what talent does he have that is significantly better than his peers, can be demonstratively proven as fact, and will allow him to beat the top CBs in the league to establish himself as a player that would actually be worth multiple 1sts?
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:31 pm


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Quint
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Quint » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm

SELL HIGH. He did the same thing last year. Started fast and ended slow. I'd move him for a 2nd rounder. I highly doubt someone would give up a 1st. Thielen is the dude I want to own. He's a target monster.

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Mefisto
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:55 pm

What talent does he have? Reljac, I'm sorry but you either don't watch him play or don't see talent in anything other than size/speed freaks. He regularly beats top corners on his routes. Even as a rookie he was making CB's look foolish with his route running. If you watched Monday's game he clearly displayed body control that is some of the best in the league. I think he made at least 2 contested catches on the sidelines, being fully aware of where the line was and keeping his feet in bounds.

Quint... see comments regarding Reljac's arguments. There is more to football than box scores.
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Mariota, Stafford, Tannehill, Kaaya
RB: L. Miller, D. Murray, K. Dixon, Rawls, D. Foreman, C. Michael, K. Drake, A. Blue, R. Turbin, A. Collins
WR: Hopkins, ARob, D. Park, S. Diggs, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, M. Wheaton
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins

10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Newton, Prescott, Tannehill, Goff, Trubisky
RB: Gurley, Lacy, Abdullah, K. Dixon, D. Foreman
WR: J. Jones, A. Cooper, D. Parker, C. Davis, T. Lockett, Doctson, W. Fuller
TE: T. Eiffert, E. Ebron
DL: R. Quinn, E. Ansah, O. Vernon
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, A. Barr, R. Foster, S. Anthony, Z. Orr, L. Floyd
DB: Clinton-Dix, J. Cyprien, M. Jenkins, K. Chancellor

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Re: Diggs value

Postby Mefisto » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm

I remember seeing video somewhere of Diggs juking I think it was Talib out of his shoes basically, as well as other examples of his route running, but am struggling to find it right now.
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Mariota, Stafford, Tannehill, Kaaya
RB: L. Miller, D. Murray, K. Dixon, Rawls, D. Foreman, C. Michael, K. Drake, A. Blue, R. Turbin, A. Collins
WR: Hopkins, ARob, D. Park, S. Diggs, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, M. Wheaton
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins

10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Newton, Prescott, Tannehill, Goff, Trubisky
RB: Gurley, Lacy, Abdullah, K. Dixon, D. Foreman
WR: J. Jones, A. Cooper, D. Parker, C. Davis, T. Lockett, Doctson, W. Fuller
TE: T. Eiffert, E. Ebron
DL: R. Quinn, E. Ansah, O. Vernon
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, A. Barr, R. Foster, S. Anthony, Z. Orr, L. Floyd
DB: Clinton-Dix, J. Cyprien, M. Jenkins, K. Chancellor

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dm1129
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Re: Diggs value

Postby dm1129 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:06 pm
Oh lord, devolving into the Melvin Gordon thread, where we just reference "talent" and blame the rest of the offense.
Not at all. Diggs started off last season with over 300 yards receiving in the first three games after an extremely impressive rookie season. The MIN O-line became decimated by injury. It was truly a mess to watch, it was that bad. Norv Turner did not adjust his vertical offense and Bradford was absolutely getting killed every week. Turner resigned, and in mid season MIN began adopting a new offensive scheme. That is called context.

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Re: Diggs value

Postby rubber_duck » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:27 pm

Obviously much of Diggs' short term value will depend upon how effective the rebuilt offensive line performs. Week 1 was a nice warm-up game to get things rolling, but it didn't look like much of a test.

Week 2 the game is at Pittsburgh. This should be a nice early indicator of what is to come. The NFL scheduling worked out very nicely for Minnesota here, and for us to make a decent value call going forward.

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Reljac
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Re: Diggs value

Postby Reljac » Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:43 pm

dm1129 wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:03 pm
Not at all. Diggs started off last season with over 300 yards receiving in the first three games after an extremely impressive rookie season. The MIN O-line became decimated by injury. It was truly a mess to watch, it was that bad. Norv Turner did not adjust his vertical offense and Bradford was absolutely getting killed every week. Turner resigned, and in mid season MIN began adopting a new offensive scheme. That is called context.
Interesting theory or narrative, but it completely fails to address why the Vikings offense was more productive in weeks 4-7 against tougher defenses when Diggs missed a game and otherwise had 65 yards. Andre Smith & Matt Kahlil were injured for the better performances in weeks 4-7. Mike Harris missed all games including the early weeks...

Also Diggs had a huge game in 9 prior to Jake Long's injury or Norv Turner being fired.

Don't forget that Diggs first two games last year occured against the #30, #31 pass defenses. I'm sure New Orleans will be near the bottom this year and last year they were the league worst.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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IBall2
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Re: Diggs value

Postby IBall2 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 2:41 pm

Quint wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:42 pm
SELL HIGH. He did the same thing last year. Started fast and ended slow. I'd move him for a 2nd rounder. I highly doubt someone would give up a 1st. Thielen is the dude I want to own. He's a target monster.
Which 2017 rookie consensus second round players would you trade straight up to get with your share of Diggs? I'm curious because this is definitely not the norm.

Right now the average second round 2017 rookie consists of the follow in a 12 team league:
D. Njoku
Z. Jones
J. Smith-Schuster
C. Samuel
D. Foreman
M. Mack
K. Golladay
Jamaal Williams
Joe Williams
C. Godwin
C. Kupp
J. Conner


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