Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

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Cowboysfan33
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Wed Sep 13, 2017 9:09 pm

kybourbon wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:47 am
Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 7:03 am
kybourbon wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:59 am
How much of a $1000/season allowance would you bid on him?
Depends on league build....... non-ppr, .5-ppr, and full ppr. The less ppr, the less his potential ceiling is.
Full PPR.

Dynasty.
I don't know if your waivers ran tonight or not but most of my leagues run on Wednesday nights. Anyway, he was available in like six of my leagues and they are all 12 team PPR and he went for either the full amount or 2/3 of our bid dollars so you will need to bid high, I was able to get him in two. Maybe it's a gamble, because I don't like his size either but damn that's a lot of usage and production, I had to take a chance.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby gaz29 » Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:45 am

The thing I see with Cohen is opportunity. He looked like he was being targeted a lot in the first game and this will only continue I feel.

White, Wheaton, Meredith are either injured or on IR so the opportunity will only continue.

I drafted him in the 6th round of a 12 team PPR league with a taxi squad. he is currently sat on my taxi squad and have people after him already.
QB, RB, WR, WR, RB/WR/TE, TE, K, DB, DB, DL, DL, LB, LB

QB: R Wilson, Mariota
RB: Elliott, Gillislee, Mack, Sims, K Dixon, McNicols, D Henderson, Clement
WR: Hopkins, Crabtree, Moncrief, W Fuller, Humphries, M Bryant, T Taylor (SF), Jaron Brown
TE: Graham, Rudolph, Kittle
K: Crosby, Hopkins
DB: Jefferson, Ryan, Bethal, Maye,
DL: Richardson, D Fowler, Garrett, Bosa
LB: Woodyard, Alonso, Brown, Williams, J Smith

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby James McGhee » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:05 am

In my main dynasty league we have real cash waivers and he went for ~ $75
12 team league; 15 man roster; .5 pt PPR;
QB/RB/2 WR/TE/2 FLX/K/DEF

QB: Tom Brady, Jared Goff
RB: Lesean McCoy, Mark Ingram, Samaje Perine, D'Onta Foreman, Ty Montgomery
WR: AJ Green, Keenan Allen, Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, JuJu Smith-Schuster
TE: Rob Gronkowski
K: Dan Bailey, Patrick Murray
DEF: Steelers Defense, Lions Defense

DLF Forum Co-Dynasty League
16 team IDP league - 53 man rosters
http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2017/o ... =07&F=0006

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Reljac » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:16 am

wow, sounds like a lot, I assume its PPR. Whats the yearly buy in?
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby James McGhee » Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:52 am

Reljac wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 9:16 am
wow, sounds like a lot, I assume its PPR. Whats the yearly buy in?
$150 annual buy-in. $50 of that is put into a 10 yr prize pool. $100 + all waiver transactions (cash bid + $1 pick-up fee) put into the annual prize pool. It pays out pretty handsomely if you place in the top 3.
12 team league; 15 man roster; .5 pt PPR;
QB/RB/2 WR/TE/2 FLX/K/DEF

QB: Tom Brady, Jared Goff
RB: Lesean McCoy, Mark Ingram, Samaje Perine, D'Onta Foreman, Ty Montgomery
WR: AJ Green, Keenan Allen, Golden Tate, Marvin Jones, JuJu Smith-Schuster
TE: Rob Gronkowski
K: Dan Bailey, Patrick Murray
DEF: Steelers Defense, Lions Defense

DLF Forum Co-Dynasty League
16 team IDP league - 53 man rosters
http://www61.myfantasyleague.com/2017/o ... =07&F=0006

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby motherlode » Thu Sep 14, 2017 11:34 am

gaz29 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:45 am
The thing I see with Cohen is opportunity. He looked like he was being targeted a lot in the first game and this will only continue I feel.

White, Wheaton, Meredith are either injured or on IR so the opportunity will only continue.
I agree with this. One of the things that drew me to Cohen over the summer was that past Jordan Howard there was very little talent on the Bears roster at the RB position. The Bears drafted him before a bunch of more highly ranked RBs...Joe Willaims, Jamaal Williams, Jeremy McNichols to name a few.... so they obviously saw something and had a plan. IMO this wasnt a case of a team drafting a player and then being surprised by his unexpected ascension up the depth chart. Now with all the offensive injuries, it only increases his value IMO. Whether Cohen can stay healthy enough be a viable player long term is a concern. But for the price i paid for him.... a late 4th, two 5ths, and a 6th round rookie draft picks and two waiver claims across 6 leagues, im as happy as a pig in poop about week 1. In a league where not-so-electric RBs like Theo Riddick and James White can dominate defenses as pass catchers out of the backfield, a guy with Cohens ability in space could be nearly impossible to defend (although this could be somewhat mitigated short term in that the Bears have so few offensive threats that opposing defenses could key on Cohen).

gaz29 wrote:
Thu Sep 14, 2017 4:45 am
I drafted him in the 6th round of a 12 team PPR league with a taxi squad. he is currently sat on my taxi squad and have people after him already.
That said, i have received exactly zero offers for him across those 6 leagues.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Bot101 » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:12 pm

Reljac wrote:
Wed Sep 13, 2017 6:08 am
Bot101 wrote:
Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:01 pm
He took a couple monster hits. Plus he broke several arm tackles and plowed over Trufant (not that Trufant is huge but there is quite a size difference) for his TD.
I don't call this a monster hit. He was able to see it coming and squared his shoulder. it was a hard hit, but very clean hit where the pads take the brunt of the impact. Hardly the type of hit that results in an injury and more likely a standard hit in the NFL.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qaf5Ez9mHnU

Thats a pretty big hit. Maybe monster isnt the right word. He also got hit hard by the LB #59 earlier. Im not arguing that he can take that level of punishment on a 20 touch basis regularly. But it looked to me that the falcons were trying to hit him hard.
QB: Mitchell Trubisky, Patrick Mahomes

WR: Odell Beckham Jr (IR) Stefon Diggs, Josh Gordon Josh Doctson, Corey Coleman, Taywan Taylor, Curtis Samuel, Zay Jones, Cameron Meredith, Carlos Henderson, Tyrell Williams,
Mack Hollins, Chad Williams, Quincy Enunwa

RB: Joe Mixon, D'Onte Foreman Tarik Cohen, Spencer Ware

TE: Hunter Henry, Gerald Everett, Adam Shaheen

2018 1st 1.01
2018 1st 1.02
2018 2nd 2.01
2018 2nd 2.04

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Reljac » Fri Sep 15, 2017 12:37 pm

Howard listed as questionable. If howard goes doubtful or out before game time, Cohen would be a very interesting play this week in dailies. Tampa Bay gave up the 7th most receiving yards to RBs among all teams last year and 11th most rushing yards and an average of 1RB TD per game.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Luck, C Wentz, C Palmer, S Bradford
RB: McCoy, David Johnson, I Crowell, J McKinnon, CJ Procise, D Henderson
WR: Julio, A Robinson, M Evans, M Thomas, B Perriman, M Williams, JuJu, C Samuel
TE: J Thomas, D Njoku
K: Gostkowski
DEF: Zona

2018: 1 1st, 1 2nd, 1 3rd

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby cazzie33 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 3:40 pm

Eliminating a player purely based on some metrics bias is "short"sides (see what I did there)

I guess back in the day you would've downgraded Walter , Barry and anyone else 200lbs or less/5'9" or under as potential workhorse backs. At some point you must trust your eyes and see they are special talents combined with extreme desire and heart.

Tarik is probably going to be playing @ more than the 179 lbs everyone loves to quote. I'd be very surprised if he didn't exceed that now after his first professional training camp. Numerous NFL backs came into the league @ 15-20lbs under their eventual playing weight. I'm going out on a limb to guess the Bears training table and weight program is a bit more intensive than NC A&T .

Ray Rice, Joe Morris, Stump Mitchell, Westbrook, Dunn and Dave Meggett all had relatively long careers as far as nfl RB's go. Today's game isn't as brutal as in their day although today's speed provides violent collisions.

Cohen plays in space which plays nicely off of Howard's power style. Leaving defenses in a quandary when Bears put both on the field. B. Sanders was never a good between the tackles straight ahead power runner but still had many of his best runs on delayed draws up the middle. Tarik can do that 3-5 times a game. Like all smaller backs he will do his damage on the edge/stretch runs or cutback lanes as runner. Up to ten times a game is doable.

Today's game is a passing game more & more so 5 catches is easily within reason. Ten plus points is successful in PPR which is almost a lock . Standard is dicier but around 7-8 makes him usable as a flex or bye week replacement with upside for more if he hits a big play. Same as Tyreek.

I'm happy to have metrics naysayers in my leagues to get those players cheap. Keep them off your radar if you like based on physical profiling. I'll keep watching their unique skills & rare off the charts agility put up useful stats for at least a couple of years to come. That's successful in my book.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sat Sep 16, 2017 6:53 pm

20 lbs is a major difference, you can't really be comparing Peyton and sanders, rice, Westbrook, etc who were all around 200 lbs.

I see the "he will play at a higher weight" argument all the time about many players, but you can't just apply that in a vacuum. That's a standard trope for just about every player in the league, that they added 5-10 lbs of muscle in the offseason. If Cohen adds weight (and that's a big if considering his small frame), you have to assume most other rbs did as well, in which case Cohen is still significantly smaller than most other rbs.

If we look at his production, he did look good but I think we can all agree his rushing in terms of a 13 YPC was a complete fluke. His YPR, derived from a higher volume of touches and what he's supposed to excel at, was poor when compared to other good pass catching rbs. My point being you can't really point to his insane rushing efficiency yet ignore his receiving inefficiency.

Im not taking a stand one way or the other really, he looks like a player, but just be fair with your arguments. Any kind of Sanders comparison or even mentioning the two in the same sentence or even same paragraph is blasphemy.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby cazzie33 » Sat Sep 16, 2017 9:06 pm

I had Barry his whole career and been watching the Lions long before he started. His running style philosophy wasn't any different than Cohen. Yes he was stronger and lasted longer than most but he was an inefficient straight downhill runner. Bobby "The Boss" Ross called for Sanders to run up into the designed play which produced his 2,000 yds season but also left him the most bruised and battered in his career. Played one more year and retired. Ross ran more of a power back offense that wasn't Barry's cup of tea.

Point being you don't ask a player to do things that aren't his strengths. Chicago won't run Cohen in the conventional way like Howard. Or should I say they shouldn't. Use him the way Andy Reid did Westbrook. Tarik has exhibited toughness to pop up from big hits but you don't ask 200 lb or less guys to be battering rams. Only Walter got away playing that style consistently. Rice was the next closest but he had a shorter window of success.

Now the one guy that most closely resembles Tarik and played I believe 13 yrs is Eric Metcalf. I've said it other forums. I truly believe Cohen plays the same kinda game. Metcalf had more pure speed but the stop on a dime change of direction, great hands combined with pure natural football instincts will make him a pro bowl player someday. I took him in every draft starting back in May right up until my last one Sept. 3rd where I took him @ 28th overall in rookie/free agent draft that had Pryor/Tyreek/Crowder/Marshawn available so essentially late 2nd rd. Before Zay/Golladay / Godwin/ Samuel/ Riddick

Everyone thought I was crazy with Howard there but I see Cohen neck & neck with McCaffrey who went 20+ picks earlier. Bears I figured would be in catchup mode most games so Tarik would get his chances as Howard I saw @ Indiana several games. He's no receiver RB. Was more concerned with Cunningham.

Projected over 1000 combined yds (62.5 per GM) w/ 50 catches. Six TD's. 180+ PPR/ 130-140 STD .That may be low with depleted WR corps and his early first game success possibly buying him an even larger role than I initially figured. (8-10 touches per GM)

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Sun Sep 17, 2017 7:55 am

Don't disagree about CMC. If you took away draft pedigree and all that, there isn't much difference between them at all.

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Phaded » Sun Sep 17, 2017 8:56 am

Are you guys ready for round 2?

I am - I have him plugged into both of my starting lineups.
Far too lazy to keep updating my teams on this.. was outdated..

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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby Plank » Sun Sep 17, 2017 9:10 am

As a Buc fan, no .. I want to squish him like a Bug .. Unfortunately TB's DEF is similar in scope to ATL's ..
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Re: Tarik Cohen is too small to be successful

Postby jeffster » Mon Sep 18, 2017 5:51 am

Every comp that people make for Cohen is a bad one, because there aren't any comparable (successful) players. At least not physically.

Everyone people keep picking is maybe similar in one category, but bigger in another. No RB has been 5'6, 179 pounds, with 1st percentile strength, and been successful. Nobody.

I hear Barry Sanders name come up regularly, which is honestly amusing. I mean, other than being taller, heavier, the third overall draft pick, a Heisman Trophy winner, and the possessor of the most absurd college season ever recorded (3,248 total yards, 39 tds), yeah, they're basically identical.

And sure, it's possible that Cohen puts on weight with an NFL workout regime... but isn't that true for literally every player in the NFL? And the figures we have for all of them, as far as I know, come from their combine and pro days. I had to look up Erik Metcalf, because I couldn't remember anything about him, but he's listed at 5'9, 190, and as you said, was apparently even faster than Cohen? That's not a good physical comp.

I mean, I still hope Cohen can be successful, because he's genuinely fun to watch with the ball. But as his value keeps creeping upward, you should really keep in mind that the odds are stacked against him. I'll enjoy hoping he beats the odds from someone elses roster.


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