Jamaal Williams GB RB

[Sterling Archer]

Haha, people already quitting him before week 1. I am still cautiously optimistic, as I don't think Ty is the answer and Jamaal is the most versatile RB on the roster and was already getting 1st team reps. He's no world class athlete, but you don't have to be in order to put up good numbers in an offense with Aaron Rodgers. Lacy was a top 10 RB twice. If Lacy can do it, I like Jamaal's odds should he get a chance.

I know it is popular to pick the undrafted guy as your sleeper or the quicker, smaller guy who dominated Conference USA competition, but give me the guy who will get goal line touches and who they trust to pass block for Rodgers. That's the guy who will matter in the end.

[Novacane]

Haha, people already quitting him before week 1. I am still cautiously optimistic, as I don't think Ty is the answer and Jamaal is the most versatile RB on the roster and was already getting 1st team reps. He's no world class athlete, but you don't have to be in order to put up good numbers in an offense with Aaron Rodgers. Lacy was a top 10 RB twice. If Lacy can do it, I like Jamaal's odds should he get a chance.

I know it is popular to pick the undrafted guy as your sleeper or the quicker, smaller guy who dominated Conference USA competition, but give me the guy who will get goal line touches and who they trust to pass block for Rodgers. That's the guy who will matter in the end.

Let's not forget that Lacy was dominant in the most pro-like division of college football. Jamal Williams is a less athletic version of James Starks. If you drafted him, I agree you should not be giving up but I have a hard time seeing any meaningful long-term role. If I owned him and he got some play due to injury, I would be trying hard to sell asap.

[StableOfRBs]

Haha, people already quitting him before week 1. I am still cautiously optimistic, as I don't think Ty is the answer and Jamaal is the most versatile RB on the roster and was already getting 1st team reps. He's no world class athlete, but you don't have to be in order to put up good numbers in an offense with Aaron Rodgers. Lacy was a top 10 RB twice. If Lacy can do it, I like Jamaal's odds should he get a chance.

I know it is popular to pick the undrafted guy as your sleeper or the quicker, smaller guy who dominated Conference USA competition, but give me the guy who will get goal line touches and who they trust to pass block for Rodgers. That's the guy who will matter in the end.

Considering the starter is a guy who used to play another position I wouldn't call Williams the most versatile guy and of all the backs on the roster I think Ty is the only one that offers 10-catch upside on any given week and the only reason Williams got first team reps is because he's the backup, all backups get first team reps in case something happens to the starter

Also what makes you think Williams would get the GL work even if Ty got hurt, Mays has like 30 pounds on Williams and Aaron Ripkowski is still on the team (and Ty actually has 20-25 pounds on Williams too)

[Coogan Football]

I think Williams is a beast and I think sooner or later he'll win the GB job. He can pound it and is great in pass pro, which is huge for Rodgers advocating his playing time.


He's not the sexiest RB talent wise, but he is more than good enough to have some sustained success in the NFL.

[Sterling Archer]

Haha, people already quitting him before week 1. I am still cautiously optimistic, as I don't think Ty is the answer and Jamaal is the most versatile RB on the roster and was already getting 1st team reps. He's no world class athlete, but you don't have to be in order to put up good numbers in an offense with Aaron Rodgers. Lacy was a top 10 RB twice. If Lacy can do it, I like Jamaal's odds should he get a chance.

I know it is popular to pick the undrafted guy as your sleeper or the quicker, smaller guy who dominated Conference USA competition, but give me the guy who will get goal line touches and who they trust to pass block for Rodgers. That's the guy who will matter in the end.

Considering the starter is a guy who used to play another position I wouldn't call Williams the most versatile guy and of all the backs on the roster I think Ty is the only one that offers 10-catch upside on any given week and the only reason Williams got first team reps is because he's the backup, all backups get first team reps in case something happens to the starter

Also what makes you think Williams would get the GL work even if Ty got hurt, Mays has like 30 pounds on Williams and Aaron Ripkowski is still on the team (and Ty actually has 20-25 pounds on Williams too)

So to you catching passes = versatile? You seem to be confusing "specialist" with "versatile".

Sorry, but I take a more literal meaning to the word. Williams, while not used in this phase a lot in college, is a very capable pass catcher, as can be seen in his preseason week 3 plays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvC7Ud0KbQQ). But he also is very capable between the tackles, has very few fumbles, is powerful enough for short yardage, and last but certainly not least - he's the best pass blocking RB on the team. That's versatile. Ty Montgomery can catch passes, is still learning how to follow his blocks, and is a very poor pass blocker. That's a specialist.

And no, he didn't get 1st team reps because he's the backup. He got 1st team reps because they liked his pass blocking. If Ty gets Rodgers hit a few times or fumbles, Jamaal will be stepping in and I doubt he let's go of the job once he has it.

I'm not saying he's the best pass catcher in the world, I'm just saying that he opens up the playbook more. I think the team would be very wary to call plays that require the RB to block when Ty is on the field, but if Williams is out there they would feel just as comfortable with Williams blocking as they would with him running out in the flat to catch a pass.

As for why I think he'll get the goal line touches, his scouting reports indicated he played bigger than his weight in short yardage situations and also he fumbles very rarely. Two things are important at the goal line: positive yardage and holding onto the ball. Being heavy doesn't matter if you don't actually move the pile or if you fumble.

The funniest part of all the Ty apologists is they think he's some sort of stud at catching the ball, but I remember scouting reports ripping him for his drops. A couple people even said he'd be a better RB prospect than WR because his hands weren't good enough to be a WR.

[StableOfRBs]

Haha, people already quitting him before week 1. I am still cautiously optimistic, as I don't think Ty is the answer and Jamaal is the most versatile RB on the roster and was already getting 1st team reps. He's no world class athlete, but you don't have to be in order to put up good numbers in an offense with Aaron Rodgers. Lacy was a top 10 RB twice. If Lacy can do it, I like Jamaal's odds should he get a chance.

I know it is popular to pick the undrafted guy as your sleeper or the quicker, smaller guy who dominated Conference USA competition, but give me the guy who will get goal line touches and who they trust to pass block for Rodgers. That's the guy who will matter in the end.

Considering the starter is a guy who used to play another position I wouldn't call Williams the most versatile guy and of all the backs on the roster I think Ty is the only one that offers 10-catch upside on any given week and the only reason Williams got first team reps is because he's the backup, all backups get first team reps in case something happens to the starter

Also what makes you think Williams would get the GL work even if Ty got hurt, Mays has like 30 pounds on Williams and Aaron Ripkowski is still on the team (and Ty actually has 20-25 pounds on Williams too)

So to you catching passes = versatile? You seem to be confusing "specialist" with "versatile".

Sorry, but I take a more literal meaning to the word. Williams, while not used in this phase a lot in college, is a very capable pass catcher, as can be seen in his preseason week 3 plays (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvC7Ud0KbQQ). But he also is very capable between the tackles, has very few fumbles, is powerful enough for short yardage, and last but certainly not least - he's the best pass blocking RB on the team. That's versatile. Ty Montgomery can catch passes, is still learning how to follow his blocks, and is a very poor pass blocker. That's a specialist.

And no, he didn't get 1st team reps because he's the backup. He got 1st team reps because they liked his pass blocking. If Ty gets Rodgers hit a few times or fumbles, Jamaal will be stepping in and I doubt he let's go of the job once he has it.

I'm not saying he's the best pass catcher in the world, I'm just saying that he opens up the playbook more. I think the team would be very wary to call plays that require the RB to block when Ty is on the field, but if Williams is out there they would feel just as comfortable with Williams blocking as they would with him running out in the flat to catch a pass.

As for why I think he'll get the goal line touches, his scouting reports indicated he played bigger than his weight in short yardage situations and also he fumbles very rarely. Two things are important at the goal line: positive yardage and holding onto the ball. Being heavy doesn't matter if you don't actually move the pile or if you fumble.

The funniest part of all the Ty apologists is they think he's some sort of stud at catching the ball, but I remember scouting reports ripping him for his drops. A couple people even said he'd be a better RB prospect than WR because his hands weren't good enough to be a WR.

What? No, to me a versatile running back is one that can play effectively and efficiently either catching or running the ball.

I just figured that his abilities as a rusher didn't need to be mentioned which is why I only brought up his receiving chops. He was the most elusive running back in the NFL after week 7 (when he officially transitioned to RB) and had the highest YPC of any RB with at least 75 carries, not only that but on the 7 carries he had inside the 10 yard line he scored 3 TDs and he gained positive yardage on 5 of them and fumbled on none of them.

As for his hands, he fumbled once last year on 77 carries (that's a lower rate than DJ, Zeke, Ajayi, RWilson, Tyrod, Rodgers, Ware, JStew, etc.) and once on 44 receptions (less than Jimmy Graham, DT, Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, Adams, OBJ, Michael Crabtree, etc.) with only 1 drop on 56 targets.

If you look at the draft profile for him it says he might not be great as part of a 3-wide set but "might be best-utilized in a dynamic, open-minded offensive system that gets the ball in his hands quickly and allows him to use his run after catch talents" which fits the Packers offense and what ARodg likes to do to a T.

You're right though, Williams is a better pass blocker than Ty is right now, and he should definitely see a few carries a week off that alone until Ty can get better at the finer points of it but I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that Williams would ever supplant Montgomery as the starter (especially given how poor of a rusher Williams has been in the preseason) and IF that should ever happen he'd still be losing work to Jones on passing downs simply because Jones is much better in space than Williams and is as competent, if not better, at pass protection.

[Sterling Archer]

What? No, to me a versatile running back is one that can play effectively and efficiently either catching or running the ball.

I just figured that his abilities as a rusher didn't need to be mentioned which is why I only brought up his receiving chops. He was the most elusive running back in the NFL after week 7 (when he officially transitioned to RB) and had the highest YPC of any RB with at least 75 carries, not only that but on the 7 carries he had inside the 10 yard line he scored 3 TDs and he gained positive yardage on 5 of them and fumbled on none of them.

As for his hands, he fumbled once last year on 77 carries (that's a lower rate than DJ, Zeke, Ajayi, RWilson, Tyrod, Rodgers, Ware, JStew, etc.) and once on 44 receptions (less than Jimmy Graham, DT, Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, Adams, OBJ, Michael Crabtree, etc.) with only 1 drop on 56 targets.

If you look at the draft profile for him it says he might not be great as part of a 3-wide set but "might be best-utilized in a dynamic, open-minded offensive system that gets the ball in his hands quickly and allows him to use his run after catch talents" which fits the Packers offense and what ARodg likes to do to a T.

You're right though, Williams is a better pass blocker than Ty is right now, and he should definitely see a few carries a week off that alone until Ty can get better at the finer points of it but I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that Williams would ever supplant Montgomery as the starter (especially given how poor of a rusher Williams has been in the preseason) and IF that should ever happen he'd still be losing work to Jones on passing downs simply because Jones is much better in space than Williams and is as competent, if not better, at pass protection.

77 carries is not enough of a sample size. Jamaal had 5 fumbles (2 lost) on 726 carries (and 60 rec) in college. That's a very good rate and one facet of being versatile. There's much more than just catching and running. And speaking of small sample sizes, I wouldn't rush to judge Williams based on a preseason sample of carries. If you looked at those week 3 highlights, he really didn't have anywhere to run on those 4 carries. Either way, I still think the pass blocking is what's going to get him on the field and while he's not as big as Lacy, his style is similar. Lacy put up some impressive fantasy numbers when he was healthy - that's the whole reason I'm pro-JW. I don't think GB wants to have to send their running back out to catch short passes to get production from their RB. I think they want to do four things: (1) keep Rodgers clean (2) get positive yards on running plays (3) keep the ball safe and (4) keep defenses honest (guessing as to whether it'll be a run or pass play - if Ty only has a handful of rushes per game, that tips the OC's hand). To me, JW does a better job at those thing than Ty so I think when you take opportunity cost into consideration (JW much cheaper than Ty), JW is the easy choice. I don't think he's a sure thing, but I do like his odds and I like his price.

[StableOfRBs]

What? No, to me a versatile running back is one that can play effectively and efficiently either catching or running the ball.

I just figured that his abilities as a rusher didn't need to be mentioned which is why I only brought up his receiving chops. He was the most elusive running back in the NFL after week 7 (when he officially transitioned to RB) and had the highest YPC of any RB with at least 75 carries, not only that but on the 7 carries he had inside the 10 yard line he scored 3 TDs and he gained positive yardage on 5 of them and fumbled on none of them.

As for his hands, he fumbled once last year on 77 carries (that's a lower rate than DJ, Zeke, Ajayi, RWilson, Tyrod, Rodgers, Ware, JStew, etc.) and once on 44 receptions (less than Jimmy Graham, DT, Michael Thomas, Amari Cooper, Adams, OBJ, Michael Crabtree, etc.) with only 1 drop on 56 targets.

If you look at the draft profile for him it says he might not be great as part of a 3-wide set but "might be best-utilized in a dynamic, open-minded offensive system that gets the ball in his hands quickly and allows him to use his run after catch talents" which fits the Packers offense and what ARodg likes to do to a T.

You're right though, Williams is a better pass blocker than Ty is right now, and he should definitely see a few carries a week off that alone until Ty can get better at the finer points of it but I've seen nothing that would lead me to believe that Williams would ever supplant Montgomery as the starter (especially given how poor of a rusher Williams has been in the preseason) and IF that should ever happen he'd still be losing work to Jones on passing downs simply because Jones is much better in space than Williams and is as competent, if not better, at pass protection.

77 carries is not enough of a sample size. Jamaal had 5 fumbles (2 lost) on 726 carries (and 60 rec) in college. That's a very good rate and one facet of being versatile. There's much more than just catching and running. And speaking of small sample sizes, I wouldn't rush to judge Williams based on a preseason sample of carries. If you looked at those week 3 highlights, he really didn't have anywhere to run on those 4 carries. Either way, I still think the pass blocking is what's going to get him on the field and while he's not as big as Lacy, his style is similar. Lacy put up some impressive fantasy numbers when he was healthy - that's the whole reason I'm pro-JW. I don't think GB wants to have to send their running back out to catch short passes to get production from their RB. I think they want to do four things: (1) keep Rodgers clean (2) get positive yards on running plays (3) keep the ball safe and (4) keep defenses honest (guessing as to whether it'll be a run or pass play - if Ty only has a handful of rushes per game, that tips the OC's hand). To me, JW does a better job at those thing than Ty so I think when you take opportunity cost into consideration (JW much cheaper than Ty), JW is the easy choice. I don't think he's a sure thing, but I do like his odds and I like his price.

Maybe you're right, and maybe the preseason isn't enough to fully evaluate Williams but Ty had 77 carries and played 9.5 games at RB last year (he left one game early with bruised ribs) which is average of 8.1 carries per game. That's more per game than Henry, Gillislee, Dixon, Paul Perkins, DeAndre Washington, Jalen Richard, Rex Burkhead, and Duke Johnson and, for better or worse, people have already formed their opinions on those players despite an equally small sample size (and some even had fewer carries total than Ty did last year).

I've already gone over why I think Ty is just a better all around RB/player than JWill so I'm not gonna keep rehashing that but as for the week 3 plays on one of them Hundley (i think) fumbled the snap so that's clearly not Williams' fault but on his 3rd carry of the game once he got past the LoS instead of cutting right away from the pile and into space he cut left and ran into his own lineman, looked like something similar on his second carry as well, sure he's not very fast but he needs to do a better job of trying to get to the edge when the middle is stuffed up like that and when he does hit the pile he goes down pretty easily.

Compare that to Ty's week 3 carries against the starters of the same defense, sure he had a nice hole to run through but even once he got past the line he was incredibly tough to tackle, he shed one tackler and actually dragged two more guys a few yards. His next carry on a draw play up the middle on 1st down he hit contact just past the LoS and still pushed the pile for a 4 yard gain.

[StableOfRBs]

You dudes all down on Ajayi because all his production came in 3 games. Yet, love Ty Montgomery. Take way Ty's 162 yard 2 TD game vs Bears in week 3 and he was a pitiful RB. In addition, that week 3 game was the ONLY time he carried the ball more than 9 times in a game.

The Packers want a back who can carry the ball more than 9 times in a game.

What Jamaal Williams can and can't do aside for a moment, he is going to get a shot at RB in a high powered offence sooner or later. Probably sooner considering all the negatives on Montgomery. That alone is reason enough to have drafted him at his ADP (rookie drafts). I'd wouldn't be opposed to taking a flyer on him in redrafts as well.

Who said anything about down on Ajayi? Sure, I guess I'm down on him because I don't think he's a locked in top 5 RB or would pay that price for him (especially in dynasty with his knee issue) but against every team not named the Buffalo Bills he still averaged ~77 rushing yards per game which is over 1200 on the season so he should be an RB1 no problem, I guess that's "down" on him if you think he's the #1 RB.

As for Ty, yes that was the only regular season game that he had double digit carries but considering he was transitioning from one position to another and they were trying to keep him upright because he wasn't used to that amount of contact (unlike Ajayi who was a highly successful RB in college) and Ty bulked up in the offseason to help himself improve on his ability to be an every down back. There were 2 postseason games were Ty had 11 carries apiece, one against the Giants DST that wasn't great (although they had the 3rd best rushing defense last year) that he helped make up for a bit with 3 for 41 through the air and one game against the Cowboys where he had a solid 4.3 YPC with 2 TDs and 6 for 34 through the air.

Whether you like Ty or not, you're still comparing a guy who switched positions mid-season to players who have been RBs their whole careers and aside from pass protection (which he can and is improving on), he comes out equal or better in 99% of cases.

[Jason3123]

Enough people I trust have touted Ty Mont that at this point I'm fine going down with him. I am very skeptical of him as a bellcow RB but there are only a small select few of those anyways who really cares. I think he's a good enough player to at least have a role and if he can be a Duke/Theo/Chris Thompson for the Packers at worst then I'd love to have that player. Not at his current ADP, but where I already roster him or acquired him cheaply before, I'm cool with holding, cause if he does manage to become a 12-15 carry guy plus a few catches, that has big upside IMO.

I am super skeptical considering he's changing positions but hey Pryor did it, David Johnson did it, Prosise did it, so I don't see why TyMont can't pull it off. More concerned about his sickle cell then his talent.

[Sterling Archer]

Maybe you're right, and maybe the preseason isn't enough to fully evaluate Williams but Ty had 77 carries and played 9.5 games at RB last year (he left one game early with bruised ribs) which is average of 8.1 carries per game. That's more per game than Henry, Gillislee, Dixon, Paul Perkins, DeAndre Washington, Jalen Richard, Rex Burkhead, and Duke Johnson and, for better or worse, people have already formed their opinions on those players despite an equally small sample size (and some even had fewer carries total than Ty did last year).

I've already gone over why I think Ty is just a better all around RB/player than JWill so I'm not gonna keep rehashing that but as for the week 3 plays on one of them Hundley (i think) fumbled the snap so that's clearly not Williams' fault but on his 3rd carry of the game once he got past the LoS instead of cutting right away from the pile and into space he cut left and ran into his own lineman, looked like something similar on his second carry as well, sure he's not very fast but he needs to do a better job of trying to get to the edge when the middle is stuffed up like that and when he does hit the pile he goes down pretty easily.

Compare that to Ty's week 3 carries against the starters of the same defense, sure he had a nice hole to run through but even once he got past the line he was incredibly tough to tackle, he shed one tackler and actually dragged two more guys a few yards. His next carry on a draw play up the middle on 1st down he hit contact just past the LoS and still pushed the pile for a 4 yard gain.

Well, I'm sorry but I firmly believe "two wrongs don't make a right." So just because people want to prematurely judge other players negatively doesn't mean I'm going to say it's ok to prematurely judge Ty favorably. So that's not a very convincing argument on your part. But even worse, you're playing a funny game with the numbers by talking about carries per game rather than total carries. If I absolutely had to, I'd rather judge a guy on 6 carries per game for a full year than 8 carries per game over half a year. Most of those guys you listed actually had more carries than Ty (but again, still not enough to definitively judge them on).

Williams scouting reports say that he plays with power and doesn't go down easily on first contact, so I'm not sure you should jump to the conclusion that he goes down easily based on a few preseason carries. As for Ty running through that gaping hole and having "shed one tackler and dragged down two more guys a few years"... first of all c'mon... that first "tackler" barely got a hand on him and yes, he dragged 31 (a defensive back) for a few yards. It was not a good tackle by 31 and I don't know what you want to call what 21 did, but Ty certainly wasn't dragging him. And man, he may have barely gotten that TD past the line on this 3rd carry, but damn did 31 stick him at the goal line. He stopped like he was a scat back hitting a nose tackle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxGtDHRynBo And again 31 is a DB. Williams was running into LBs. Not really comparable.