Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

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jeffster
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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby jeffster » Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48 am

I have a lot easier time swallowing the "be patient while he develops" argument on Treadwell than I do for Doctson. Doctson was in the same draft class*, but is 2.5 years older. He shouldn't be gearing up for his third NFL reception; he should be entering his prime.

We tend to accept 2-3 years for a rookie WR to develop, and he's still basically a rookie. Do we look for him to finally perform when he's about 27 then?

Maybe he stays healthy, puts it all together fast and breaks out while essentially green. The odds of that certainly aren't zero. But it's one more mark against him.

Anyway, I'm avoiding, or selling if I can get a late 1st. I would buy for a random 2nd probably.

*fixed
Last edited by jeffster on Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby StableOfRBs » Mon Aug 28, 2017 4:33 am

jeffster wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 3:48 am
I have a lot easier time swallowing the "be patient while he develops" argument on Treadwell than I do for Doctson. Doctson was only one draft class earlier, but is 2.5 years older. He shouldn't be gearing up for his third NFL reception; he should be entering his prime.

We tend to accept 2-3 years for a rookie WR to develop, and he's still basically a rookie. Do we look for him to finally perform when he's about 27 then?

Maybe he stays healthy, puts it all together fast and breaks out while essentially green. The odds of that certainly aren't zero. But it's one more mark against him.

Anyway, I'm avoiding, or selling if I can get a late 1st. I would buy for a random 2nd probably.
one draft pick earlier* and maybe Doctson is gearing up for his 3rd NFL reception but Treadwell is still waiting for his 2nd, I just don't see any justification for being more patient with Treadwell than I do for Doctson

Doctson had more success in college than Treadwell (2 years as opposed to Treadwell's 1) which is one of the best indicators of future success in the pros and while the combine isn't the be-all-end-all for predictors but Treadwell's numbers were pretty bad, especially compared to Doctson's so he doesn't even have that going for him (also Matt Harmon's reception perception had Doctson rated higher than Treadwell in success rates against zone, man and press coverage as well as the best contested catch rate and most contested catch attempts of all the prospects that were charted)

Treadwell screams "less athletic Kevin White" to me and the 2-3 year age difference shouldn't affect how you value him compared to Doctson, in dynasty there are rarely more than 2-3 players you will keep on your roster for their entire careers at RB/WR/TE because of trades and changes in valuation from year to year and most of the players that are there now will be dropped/traded within the next 3 to 4 years (just as an example the startup draft for the team in my sig was summer of 2015, the only players still on my team from that draft are DJ, Gordon, Luck and Cooper)

Even if Doctson takes 2-3 more years to develop and he's 27 when he finally starts to hit his stride in the NFL, then by the time he's 30-31 he probably won't even be on your team anymore so the difference between him and a then-28 year old Treadwell will be pretty moot (also it's more likely 1-2 years, if that, WRs generally take less time to adjust nowadays and Doctson was one of the more pro-ready receivers drafted in his class)

Not to mention that most people that drafted Doctson were aware of his achilles injury ahead of time and knew that his odds of putting up even halfway decent numbers were pretty low, as it was, with Crowder stepping up and Garcon playing up in a contract year, the Skins didn't need to rush him back and opted to give him time to make a full recovery, sure Treadwell had a couple hamstring/ankle issues but nothing serious enough to keep him off the field for an extended period of time, he just wasn't good enough to warrant snaps
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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby jeffster » Mon Aug 28, 2017 5:05 am

I hear that argument against considering age differences when they're still young a lot, and I've never understood it. Doctson doesn't need to be on my roster four years from now for his age to have sapped some of his value. Dynasty people love youth, often more than warranted.

Anyway, I don't necessarily like Treadwell more than Doctson as a player; I'm just more open to waiting through multiple years of essentially zero production for a guy who joined the NFL at age 20 than a guy who joined at 23.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby MarcoPolo25 » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:19 pm

What are thoughts in general on Doctson after two weeks? Is he a complete bust, hold until we see more? Recently traded for him, and genuinely curious.
12 team league
25 man roster
8 RB & 9 WR Restrictions
1QB 2RB 2WR 1RB/WR/TE flex 1TE 1K 1 DST
1pt PPR
*REBUILD*
Qb: Luck, Cousins, Mahomes
RB: Mccoy, Lynch, Burkhead, M. Davis, Foreman, C. Carson, Ekeler, A. Jones
WR: Allen, D. Adams, J. Brown, Jones Jr, Juju, M. Williams, Doctson, D. Robinson, Perriman
TE: Graham, Eifert, Engram, S. Anderson
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K: streaming
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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:36 pm

Just needs to get healthy. If he does get healthy and he's lost all his burst from his injuries, THEN he'll be a bust. But not yet.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby Vcize » Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:26 pm

MarcoPolo25 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:19 pm
What are thoughts in general on Doctson after two weeks? Is he a complete bust, hold until we see more? Recently traded for him, and genuinely curious.
What did you trade for him?
Team 1 (12 team standard, q/r/r/w/w/f/t/k/d)
QB: Brees, Dak
RB: Bell, D Johnson, Fournette, Penny, Lynch, Conner, Foreman
WR: Brown, Diggs, Dez, Lockett
TE: Gronk, Graham
K: Tucker
Def: Jags, Texans

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QB: Dak, Mahomes
RB: Fournette, Kamara, Michel, Kerryon, Blount
WR: Beckham, Thielen, GTate, M Williams, Decker, Enunwa
TE: Eifert, Hooper, Gesicki

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby Tvols » Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:34 am

I would put him and white in the same court ... both have been bust

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby MarcoPolo25 » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:40 am

Vcize wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:26 pm
MarcoPolo25 wrote:
Tue Sep 19, 2017 1:19 pm
What are thoughts in general on Doctson after two weeks? Is he a complete bust, hold until we see more? Recently traded for him, and genuinely curious.
What did you trade for him?
Gave L. Miller got Doctson + 2018 1st :dance: :dance:
12 team league
25 man roster
8 RB & 9 WR Restrictions
1QB 2RB 2WR 1RB/WR/TE flex 1TE 1K 1 DST
1pt PPR
*REBUILD*
Qb: Luck, Cousins, Mahomes
RB: Mccoy, Lynch, Burkhead, M. Davis, Foreman, C. Carson, Ekeler, A. Jones
WR: Allen, D. Adams, J. Brown, Jones Jr, Juju, M. Williams, Doctson, D. Robinson, Perriman
TE: Graham, Eifert, Engram, S. Anderson
DST: streaming
K: streaming
Picks: 2018 | 1st (x3) | 2nd (x2) | 2019: 1st | 2nd

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby jimmychoi » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:03 pm

Tvols wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:34 am
I would put him and white in the same court ... both have been bust
I'd give him a little more time before he's a total bust.
QBs: Carr, Watson,Gabbert
RBs: Miller, Gio, Hill, Mixon, Hunt, Lynch,Yeldon
WRs: Nuk, Corey Davis, John Brown, D. Parker, Doctson, Taywan Taylor,Garcon, Thielen
TEs: Ertz,Njoku
K:
LBs: J Davis, Mosley, D.Jones
DB: Budda
DL: JPP

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby Dynasty DeLorean » Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:12 pm

jimmychoi wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:03 pm
Tvols wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:34 am
I would put him and white in the same court ... both have been bust
I'd give him a little more time before he's a total bust.
I think the most annoying thing I've been reading is people lumping White, Coleman and Doctson all in the same group.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby The Red Rooster » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:04 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:12 pm
jimmychoi wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 6:03 pm
Tvols wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 4:34 am
I would put him and white in the same court ... both have been bust
I'd give him a little more time before he's a total bust.
I think the most annoying thing I've been reading is people lumping White, Coleman and Doctson all in the same group.
White? I think we can call bust.

Coleman will be a star i think. I know he keeps getting hurt, but I think he will be good.

Doctson, I have no idea. I own him and I'm not sure what to do with him.
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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby Cameron Giles » Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:09 pm

Doctson turns 25 in December and because of injuries, hasn't even developed a role in the Redskins offense, let alone chemistry with Cousins. They really could use his skill set, especially in the red zone and jump balls.

He was a very good prospect, but this is the drawback of drafting older WR's. If they miss time early in their career, then they're tasked with playing catchup at an age when WR's are supposed to be hitting their stride already.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby jimmychoi » Sat Sep 23, 2017 5:25 am

Cameron Giles wrote:
Fri Sep 22, 2017 8:09 pm
Doctson turns 25 in December and because of injuries, hasn't even developed a role in the Redskins offense, let alone chemistry with Cousins. They really could use his skill set, especially in the red zone and jump balls.

He was a very good prospect, but this is the drawback of drafting older WR's. If they miss time early in their career, then they're tasked with playing catchup at an age when WR's are supposed to be hitting their stride already.
I agree with the points you've made. I just feel that many erroneously throw out the "bust" label if players aren't automatic producers.
QBs: Carr, Watson,Gabbert
RBs: Miller, Gio, Hill, Mixon, Hunt, Lynch,Yeldon
WRs: Nuk, Corey Davis, John Brown, D. Parker, Doctson, Taywan Taylor,Garcon, Thielen
TEs: Ertz,Njoku
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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby pvillebiker » Sat Sep 23, 2017 6:14 pm

Frankly I think using age as the foundation for trashing Doctson is misguided. Who cares if he's a few years older if he never develops? The Important question is "can he actualy be a good WR in the NFL?" Honestly, I think up to now his issue has been primarily health. Or lack of it. Not staying on the field for practice or real games has real consequences to development. And potentially devastating to rookies, especially if it goes multiple seasons. If he's not going to be a good WR in the league, his age is irrelevant. However, if he has it in him, gets healthy then I believe he'll be worth the wait.

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Re: Is now a good time to trade for Doctson?

Postby MarcoPolo25 » Mon Sep 25, 2017 5:29 am

50+ yard TD last night. What are we making of it? Fluke? More to come? I know I did a little dance after it for sure!
12 team league
25 man roster
8 RB & 9 WR Restrictions
1QB 2RB 2WR 1RB/WR/TE flex 1TE 1K 1 DST
1pt PPR
*REBUILD*
Qb: Luck, Cousins, Mahomes
RB: Mccoy, Lynch, Burkhead, M. Davis, Foreman, C. Carson, Ekeler, A. Jones
WR: Allen, D. Adams, J. Brown, Jones Jr, Juju, M. Williams, Doctson, D. Robinson, Perriman
TE: Graham, Eifert, Engram, S. Anderson
DST: streaming
K: streaming
Picks: 2018 | 1st (x3) | 2nd (x2) | 2019: 1st | 2nd


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