Seattle #2 WR

[mratlanta]

If an NFL team's WR1 is a fantasy WR2 and said real team's WR2 catches a pass does it make a sound?

[WhatWouldDitkaDo]

If an NFL team's WR1 is a fantasy WR2 and said real team's WR2 is a TE and said team's WR3 catches a pass does it make a sound?

FTFY

[jcc6fd]

If an NFL team's WR1 is a fantasy WR2 and said real team's WR2 catches a pass does it make a sound?

Funny except Baldwin is one of four WRs to be a WR1 two consecutive years. Won't let you downplay Baldwin. He's legit

[_yeti]

What is wrong with Darboh exactly? Seems like a fast 3rd round rookie with a clear path to playing time on any other team would be worth something, but Darboh is totally ignored.

It was an odd pick. Great measurables, looks the part, but he's a project and doesn't look like he'll be a high volume guy.

Pretty much this. I don't think there's anything wrong with him at all. But it's a pretty crowded WR room, and Darboh does need some seasoning before he's ready to overtake Richardson/Lockett/Kearse. His will be an interesting case depending on if he shows well in the pre-season. Will they keep him on the 53-man, or risk it and try to land him on the practice squad...

And M-Dub, I actually like both Richardson and Lockett a lot. It's just been hard to determine which is better since both have been hurt a ton. Interestingly, Richardson is on the wire in my league and I've been debating whether or not I'd rather have him over Lockett. With Paul out a few weeks I could probably afford to take him with my last pick of the draft this weekend.

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

[Tsunami]

Groupthink is when people are afraid to contradict their peers in the interest of group harmony. I don't think it applies to fantasy football where everyone is competing against each other and enjoys talking smack if not outright trolling. I think the principle that applies more is the "Wisdom of the Crowd" which basically is the opposite of the point you are trying to make. When everyone agrees, it might be you that is wrong. I was just wondering why.

[_yeti]

Groupthink is when people are afraid to contradict their peers in the interest of group harmony. I don't think it applies to fantasy football where everyone is competing against each other and enjoys talking smack if not outright trolling. I think the principle that applies more is the "Wisdom of the Crowd" which basically is the opposite of the point you are trying to make. When everyone agrees, it might be you that is wrong. I was just wondering why.

Are you kidding me? 90% of fantasy expert analysis is the same recycled groupthink from fanatics who never player or coached the sport at a high level.

"the practice of thinking or making decisions as a group in a way that discourages creativity or individual responsibility."

I think there is much LESS groupthink here on the forum than there is in the traditional fantasy football "expert" community, because we all enjoy debate and disagreement. I still think a lot of people are afraid to step too far away from the consensus out of fear of looking stupid. If you're wrong with the whole group it's easier to brush it off than if you stake an unpopular claim. Here, a lot of us enjoy taking that step and seeing how it turns out but it doesn't mean that still isn't the case a lot of the time.

[ArrylT]

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

Pretty much any WR who can stick in the NFL can have WR 2/3 upside in the right situation and with the right amount of targets. Darboh has to prove first he can stick in the NFL - Moncrief already has proven he can - I think no matter what happens most owners would readily admit Moncrief will get a 2nd contract even if it isnt with the Colts.

You dont need any of us to tell you why Darboh - like so many other prospects is "free" at the moment. We all have our guys and kudos to you for banging the drum for Darboh. Someone else will bang the drum for Westbrook, for Ford, for Malone, for Dupre, etc etc etc.

And I personally disagree that the Seattle Depth chart is weaker than the Colts. But to each their own.

[_yeti]

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

Pretty much any WR who can stick in the NFL can have WR 2/3 upside in the right situation and with the right amount of targets. Darboh has to prove first he can stick in the NFL - Moncrief already has proven he can - I think no matter what happens most owners would readily admit Moncrief will get a 2nd contract even if it isnt with the Colts.

You dont need any of us to tell you why Darboh - like so many other prospects is "free" at the moment. We all have our guys and kudos to you for banging the drum for Darboh. Someone else will bang the drum for Westbrook, for Ford, for Malone, for Dupre, etc etc etc.

And I personally disagree that the Seattle Depth chart is weaker than the Colts. But to each their own.

Westbrook- 4th round pick
Ford- 7th round pick
Malone- 4th round pick
Dupre- 7th round pick

Darboh was taken in the 3rd. For the record Malone is also underrated and a great add right now. Not to say I only judge by round drafted by any means but it is an important piece of the puzzle. Westbrook is a baller but is too skinny. Moncrief had hype from day one purely because Luck was young and the heir apparent QB of the future and the depth chart seemed wide open.

I was just pointing out how guys who have been valued at a similar level by the professional league they play in, both with ascendable depth charts, and good quarterbacks can be viewed in such widely different terms. I love that Darboh is cheap and would never of added him if he came in with hype like Moncrief did, but he is not headed to the practice squad. As a third rounder that is crazy talk.

[ArrylT]

Technically Darboh was a compensatory 3rd - or even more "barely in the 3rd" than Moncrief

But yes it is always interesting to see how players can be viewed so differently. Would be interesting to see what he would be valued at had be been in the 2016 draft instead of the 2017 draft.

One thing that may cause people some "concern" is the Seahawks lack of success drafting WRs. Apart from Golden Tate (who didnt really come into real relevance until he signed with Detroit) and Tyler Lockett rookie season there really hasnt been anyone since 2001. Baldwin was a UDFA as we all know.

[Shoreline Steamers]

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

I'm not on the Moncrief wagon, and didn't mention him but I understand why you bring him up to make your point. Pete Carroll is usually positive about everyone on the roster. So yes, while he's had nice things to say about Darboh it looks to me as though he's got a bit of a hill to climb for relevance in 2017. I wasn't making a point about disliking Darboh at all, just that with Baldwin, Lockett, Richardson, Kearse (and possibly Williams) ahead of him in the pecking order pending injuries it's a crowded group. Additionally Tanner McEvoy is a valued special teamer.

So while it was probably an overstatement to suggest that he might not make the 53-man roster (I didn't say he WAS destined for the P-Squad, but he's buried) I still don't see a large role for him this season. He is however, that big-bodied WR that Carroll has wanted ever since they lost the Seattle version of Mike Williams a few years ago. I think your assessment of his future upside is pretty spot-on. He could be a valuable supporting cast member, but not likely a star.

[_yeti]

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

I'm not on the Moncrief wagon, and didn't mention him but I understand why you bring him up to make your point. Pete Carroll is usually positive about everyone on the roster. So yes, while he's had nice things to say about Darboh it looks to me as though he's got a bit of a hill to climb for relevance in 2017. I wasn't making a point about disliking Darboh at all, just that with Baldwin, Lockett, Richardson, Kearse (and possibly Williams) ahead of him in the pecking order pending injuries it's a crowded group. Additionally Tanner McEvoy is a valued special teamer.

So while it was probably an overstatement to suggest that he might not make the 53-man roster (I didn't say he WAS destined for the P-Squad, but he's buried) I still don't see a large role for him this season. He is however, that big-bodied WR that Carroll has wanted ever since they lost the Seattle version of Mike Williams a few years ago. I think your assessment of his future upside is pretty spot-on. He could be a valuable supporting cast member, but not likely a star.

I didn't mean to bag on you specifically, as I know you're real plugged in with Hawks moves. I even had one of the first posts that said Darboh! (In 2018) and that I voted Lockett though I'm not buying.

I just figured since he was being talked about here was as good as a place as any to make that point because I don't think he has a thread. I think you're right about 2017, and that kind of plays into my bigger point on dynasty philosophy. I'd rather acquire players I believe in who I believe have the right price than chase first year production. I think the idea of first year production pumps up value (usually artificially) and to the detriment of people who buy into it. I think Moncrief illustrates that but every year there is a new person whose value goes up because of the idea they can produce right away. Meanwhile, the smarter investment is a guy like Darboh. I want either the primier top-end Cooper/Davis's of the world or if I end rostering 3rd-4th round (real draft) WRs, it better be cheap or I don't think it's worth it almost all of the time.

[_yeti]

Just an interesting factoid on why I am so incredulous Darboh gets no love.

Players with ADP above him (in order):
Henderson, Stewart, Reynolds, Ford, Golladay, Williams, Zamora, Switzer, Westbrook, Cannon, Hansen, Dupre.

Some of these guys were drafted over 100 picks later. I will say this, I waited to get him super duper cheap/free in my leagues before being all rah rah about him!

[Shoreline Steamers]

Just an interesting factoid on why I am so incredulous Darboh gets no love.

Players with ADP above him (in order):
Henderson, Stewart, Reynolds, Ford, Golladay, Williams, Zamora, Switzer, Westbrook, Cannon, Hansen, Dupre.

Some of these guys were drafted over 100 picks later. I will say this, I waited to get him super duper cheap/free in my leagues before being all rah rah about him!

I didn't think you were getting after me at all yeti, and agree Darboh is a good late stash (also understand why you wouldn't talk him up until after your drafts!). I think he's going to be better than Kearse, and am not really a believer in Kasen Williams though he had a great game against the Chargers and has a year in the system. Darboh's the kind of guy who will develop with the team in 2017 and allow them to address other needs in 2018 unless someone special falls into their laps. He's likely to be no worse than the WR3 in Seattle next season. They might even let Richardson walk which would only help his cause.

And as you pointed out earlier, many are down on the Hawks passing game. But a gimpy Wilson, terrible line, poor running game, and injured WR's played into making things look worse than they are. Maybe it's the homer in me, but I think good things are in store through the air this season with the improvements the they've made. Instant production at WR isn't the norm after all, and a late-round pick who ascends to fantasy relevance is the stuff strong teams are made of!

[Sterling Archer]

It was an odd pick. Great measurables, looks the part, but he's a project and doesn't look like he'll be a high volume guy.

Pretty much this. I don't think there's anything wrong with him at all. But it's a pretty crowded WR room, and Darboh does need some seasoning before he's ready to overtake Richardson/Lockett/Kearse. His will be an interesting case depending on if he shows well in the pre-season. Will they keep him on the 53-man, or risk it and try to land him on the practice squad...

And M-Dub, I actually like both Richardson and Lockett a lot. It's just been hard to determine which is better since both have been hurt a ton. Interestingly, Richardson is on the wire in my league and I've been debating whether or not I'd rather have him over Lockett. With Paul out a few weeks I could probably afford to take him with my last pick of the draft this weekend.

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

I'm late to this party but... wtf are you on about?

First off, Moncrief is 24.0 years old while Darboh is 23.6 years old. I'm going to call that age difference officially negligible. Moncrief is an undisputed starter for his team and has shown flashes of NFL talent with some pretty plausible reasons why things haven't quite come together for him (extremely young rookie, injured QB in year 2, himself injured in year 3), but Darboh is an old rookie who is buried on the depth chart and shown absolutely nothing in the NFL yet.

So I don't know why you bring Moncrief up. You've got yourself some an apple and an orange here.

Darboh is a fine guy to stash if you've got space AND patience. At a minimum, Lockett is going to be on the team in 2018, so Darboh is likely a nothing until 2019. I'm not wasting a roster spot on that. My leagues only have 26-30 spots and each guy has 2018 starter potential. If I pick Darboh up, it'll be next year.

Now I do agree there's a lot of groupthink in fantasy football. A LOT. But there's also a lot of silly hype. Sounds like you are buying into Pete Carroll coach speak. Don't be that guy. Carroll gushes about everyone. He's not to be trusted.

[_yeti]

Pretty much this. I don't think there's anything wrong with him at all. But it's a pretty crowded WR room, and Darboh does need some seasoning before he's ready to overtake Richardson/Lockett/Kearse. His will be an interesting case depending on if he shows well in the pre-season. Will they keep him on the 53-man, or risk it and try to land him on the practice squad...

And M-Dub, I actually like both Richardson and Lockett a lot. It's just been hard to determine which is better since both have been hurt a ton. Interestingly, Richardson is on the wire in my league and I've been debating whether or not I'd rather have him over Lockett. With Paul out a few weeks I could probably afford to take him with my last pick of the draft this weekend.

At the risk of turning this into ANOTHER Moncrief thread, the guy is barely drafted in the third round and in his 4th year his hype is still through the roof. Meanwhile, Darboh is getting tons of positive statements from the coaching staff and people are discussing whether he may be on the PRACTICE SQUAD?!

A weaker WR depth chart than Indy, and no one cares bc of the perception of the situation he is entering, being that Seattle is bad for and can't support fantasy wrs when in reality they obviously can.

Moncrief has a poll right now where he is worth a 1st or early 2nd for 50% of respondents and Darboh is basically free. Rather than go for the free guy who is younger, the community flocks to the more expensive option because groupthink has created a value he doesn't deserve. My man Darboh is going to prove people wrong. Won't be a WR1, but a guy who can have the upside of a steady WR2/WR3 who is basically waiver wire fodder should be something we all want to add.

I'm late to this party but... wtf are you on about?

First off, Moncrief is 24.0 years old while Darboh is 23.6 years old. I'm going to call that age difference officially negligible. Moncrief is an undisputed starter for his team and has shown flashes of NFL talent with some pretty plausible reasons why things haven't quite come together for him (extremely young rookie, injured QB in year 2, himself injured in year 3), but Darboh is an old rookie who is buried on the depth chart and shown absolutely nothing in the NFL yet.

So I don't know why you bring Moncrief up. You've got yourself some an apple and an orange here.

Darboh is a fine guy to stash if you've got space AND patience. At a minimum, Lockett is going to be on the team in 2018, so Darboh is likely a nothing until 2019. I'm not wasting a roster spot on that. My leagues only have 26-30 spots and each guy has 2018 starter potential. If I pick Darboh up, it'll be next year.

Now I do agree there's a lot of groupthink in fantasy football. A LOT. But there's also a lot of silly hype. Sounds like you are buying into Pete Carroll coach speak. Don't be that guy. Carroll gushes about everyone. He's not to be trusted.

The first sentence made me chuckle. I didn't realize Darboh was so old, I guess I just assumed he was younger as a rookie, so that is one part I hadn't researched. I said I didn't want to make this another Moncrief thread, I just wanted to use him as an illustration of a point. I love how some guys have "plausible reasons why things haven't come together" and others are washed up busts instantly. Usually it is people sticking to whatever they initially thought about that person and that governing whether they hold out hope or write them off.

"At a minimum, Lockett is going to be on the team in 2018, so Darboh is likely a nothing until 2019." When I see this kind of thinking I am always irked by it. Football is a next man up sport and no one has shown that more than Carroll. Lockett has been okay. Kearse has been below-average and seems to benefit from the fact that he and Wilson grew on the team together. I see Darboh as a bigger threat to Kearse than Lockett, as I could easily see 2018 with Baldwin and Darboh on the outside and Lockett in the slot.

And for the record I liked and added Darboh before Carroll started praising him and before training camp started. My point about bringing up a hype machine like Moncrief, was that Darboh has zero hype, even among us degenerates. You have guys who are seventh rounders going before him, and he was drafted at a spot in a situation not so different from Moncrief. I don't want there to be a ton of hype or drive the price up, I just think the guy is getting disrespected being taken later than 7th rounders and such.