Jordan Matthews to Bills

[ericanadian]

I'm not sure where the narrative that JMatt can't play on the outside comes from. He played slot in year one because Maclin was the lead receiver and the other outside receiver was expected to block because Kelly ran a zone scheme.

In year two, Agholor took over the outside role while JMatt continued to work primarily out of the slot. Perhaps this is where people felt it was established that he couldn't play outside. Personally, I think Shurmur's system tended to focus on the slot receiver and they felt it made sense to keep their best receiver where he'd be the focus.

In year three, they moved Matthews to the outside. He struggled, but it's worth noting that he injured his knee in the preseason and played hurt pretty much the full year. If you watch his highlights in 2016 and compare them to 2015, he doesn't look like the same receiver.

I don't know if he can be effective outside, but I don't think we have enough information to say conclusively that he can't.

[Valhalla]

I'm not going to pretend like I know a ton about Matthews or his history with the Eagles, as I haven't watched much of the Eagles. I just have some things I'd like to see further discussed by those who have watched a lot of him.
1. I agree he isn't as sudden as I like a top end wr to be. I prefer quick twitch like Brown Beckham or Julio. Yet, those guys aren't everywhere. Demaryius Thomas doesn't/didn't look sudden to me any more than Matthews does. Yet he got it done. I'm not saying Matthews will be Demaryius. I'm just making the point that you don't have to be top end sudden to be dominant. Thoughts on this?

2. Like I said I didn't watch so I'll assume you're right on this argument: Matthews is a less effective wr outside than in. I'd like to know if this has been true throughout his career. Has he always been ineffective on the outside or was it just last year?

3. His coaches "tried him on the outside, then moved him back to the slot when he proved to be ineffective outside." To that I have to ask...how much of this is due to Wentz being quite inaccurate? Is it not reasonable to assume that a coach will want to simplify passes for a struggling rookie QB? This would involve having him throw a ton of short, quick passes that are often pre-determined to lessen QB responsibility. That is what it seems like Wentz was asked to do by his statistical resume, but again I didn't watch. If it's an accurate assumption, well then why would the coach NOT move the most reliable WR inside to be the most heavily targeted guy? Maybe Matthews was moved not due to his inability to play outside, but due to Wentz' inability to connect with his outside WRs effectively. Just a thought.

Per Rotoworld- "Pro Football Focus' Neil Hornsby speculates Jordan Matthews could see around 200 fewer snaps this season if he is not able to secure a role on the outside.
"New coach Doug Pederson attempted to use Matthews on the outside during OTAs, but it appears that experiment has already come to an unsuccessful end. "He’s better inside," Pederson said, "because he’s got that big body and he knows how to use it in space." If Pederson is uncomfortable playing Matthews outside, it could seriously limit his role in an offense which will employ a lot fewer three-wide looks than Chip Kelly did last season. Matthews has to establish himself on the perimeter to have any shot at WR3 value.
"Source: Pro Football Focus Tue, Jun 7, 2016 08:42:00 AM"

The article- https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/p ... in-in-2016

If I recall correctly, that is a partial quote that makes it seem like the coach was speaking to matthews' inability to play outside. It took a partial quote "he's better inside because..." and then the article filled in fluff about Peterson being uncomfortable with Matthews.
Again, from my recollection, Pederson's full quote was something more akin to "He can play everywhere, and we like the versatility. We can move him around and play him at all wr positions. He is better inside because..."
All just from my memory, as I can't find the full quote.

[remedy29]

I'm not sure where the narrative that JMatt can't play on the outside comes from. He played slot in year one because Maclin was the lead receiver and the other outside receiver was expected to block because Kelly ran a zone scheme.

In year two, Agholor took over the outside role while JMatt continued to work primarily out of the slot. Perhaps this is where people felt it was established that he couldn't play outside. Personally, I think Shurmur's system tended to focus on the slot receiver and they felt it made sense to keep their best receiver where he'd be the focus.

In year three, they moved Matthews to the outside. He struggled, but it's worth noting that he injured his knee in the preseason and played hurt pretty much the full year. If you watch his highlights in 2016 and compare them to 2015, he doesn't look like the same receiver.

I don't know if he can be effective outside, but I don't think we have enough information to say conclusively that he can't.

I doubt J. Mathews can be an effective WR anywhere. Inside/outside, does it matter? He was let go by the team that drafted him. A team that went out of their way to ensure they upgraded their WR positions and through that process discarded Mathews.

[Valhalla]

I doubt J. Mathews can be an effective WR anywhere. Inside/outside, does it matter? He was let go by the team that drafted him. A team that went out of their way to ensure they upgraded their WR positions and through that process discarded Mathews.

Solid reasoning...
I guess the Eagles are in trouble then. The team that drafted Jeffery decided to move on. Same with the last two teams that employed Torrey.
I doubt Watkins can be an effective wr anywhere. I doubt Cooks will be effective anymore. How in the hell was Moss effective after the Vikings traded him? The drafting team moving on spells failure for sure.

[Pullo Vision]

Here's the Q&A, along with audio- http://m.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/ar ... 15901a6efa

[Valhalla]

Here's the Q&A, along with audio- http://m.philadelphiaeagles.com/news/ar ... 15901a6efa

Solid post, thanks.

From it:
COACH PEDERSON: Jordan, again, he's been good on the outside. He's better inside because he's got that big body and he knows how to sort of use it in space. One thing that he can do, particularly in tight areas, is separate from man-to-man type coverages. That's one thing we've seen [from him] this spring from the slot position. Again, he's a position-versatile guy that you can move around. Our receivers, in this offense, are going to have to know multiple spots. They are going to have to know an outside spot and an inside spot because we move them around so much by formation. I've been excited about him and his work ethic and the way he challenges his room and his guys each and every day out there on the field.

From that, a writer at PFF took the snip "he's better on the inside" and spun it into Pederson slighting Matthews' ability...and it was quite the opposite.

"...that experiment has already come to an unsuccessful end...". -- Ok...let's get this writer a jump to conclusions mat.
"Matthews has to establish himself on the perimeter to have any shot at WR3 value." -- Actually, Matthews was the most heavily utilized wr in the offense and was not primarily used on the perimeter. Good speculation, though.

I wouldn't put a lot of stock into that PFF article. If that's the basis of the "Coaches say he can't play outside" argument, rethink your argument.

[DJB]

I think he plays inside in Buffalo with Zay and Bold on outside . Our GM mentioned the other day when we signed Bolden he can play outside.

No definite McDermott coach speak on the topic as of yet

[Pullo Vision]

Valhalla, you got me curious if there was more. Found this- http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/eag ... 06971.html

In Chip Kelly's up-tempo, no-huddle offense, the wide receivers stuck to left, right, and inside. Matthews mostly played on the inside since the team selected him out of Vanderbilt in the second round of the 2014 draft. He has been productive in that role - Matthews has had 152 catches for 1,869 yards, and 16 touchdowns in two seasons - but Pederson is committed to seeing how Matthews plays on the outside. Matthews said the Eagles will rotate all of their receivers in different spots.

Matthews said he'll get more one-on-one coverage and won't be limited to mostly crossing patterns and maneuvering between players in the middle of the field. He also could be on the field for a higher percentage of plays this season. Matthews took 79 percent of the offensive snaps last year, but he was often on the sideline when the Eagles went to two-receiver formations. Matthews expects to stay on the field in those packages this year because he can play on the outside.

Here's Rotoworld's take on the article- "Matthews ran over 90 percent of his routes in the slot under ex-coach Chip Kelly. He only played 79 percent of the Eagles' 2015 offensive snaps, and came off the field frequently in two-receiver formations. On the flip side, Kelly's exit is likely to cost Matthews more overall snaps because of the fast tempo with which Kelly's offenses played. Whereas Kelly's Eagles ranked first and second in offensive plays in 2014-2015, new coach Doug Peterson's Chiefs offenses have ranked 29th and 31st the past two years."

[carsoncity]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/pla ... by-watkins

" In 2016, Matthews played on the outside for 32.9% of Philadelphia’s offensive snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. Matthews was targeted 40 times when not playing in the slot. He had 20 receptions for 222 yards (a paltry 11.1 average)."

[Valhalla]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/pla ... by-watkins

" In 2016, Matthews played on the outside for 32.9% of Philadelphia’s offensive snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. Matthews was targeted 40 times when not playing in the slot. He had 20 receptions for 222 yards (a paltry 11.1 average)."

Again, I have to wonder...how much of that "paltry" number is due to Wentz' inability to throw outside effectively? I don't honestly know how well Matthews can play on the outside, but I can say with some level of confidence that even the great outside WRs would have struggled to live up to their typical numbers with that rookie version of Wentz throwing to them. There are multiple variables that go into that number, yet so many people want it to be a 1:1 correlation of low numbers = poor wr.

[Pullo Vision]

https://www.bleedinggreennation.com/pla ... by-watkins

" In 2016, Matthews played on the outside for 32.9% of Philadelphia’s offensive snaps, according to Pro Football Focus. Matthews was targeted 40 times when not playing in the slot. He had 20 receptions for 222 yards (a paltry 11.1 average)."

Again, I have to wonder...how much of that "paltry" number is due to Wentz' inability to throw outside effectively? I don't honestly know how well Matthews can play on the outside, but I can say with some level of confidence that even the great outside WRs would have struggled to live up to their typical numbers with that rookie version of Wentz throwing to them. There are multiple variables that go into that number, yet so many people want it to be a 1:1 correlation of low numbers = poor wr.

That's a valid question. I wonder how things will play out with Boldin and Jones in Buffalo. Boldin seems too similar, so I'm curious who will be outside.

Unfortunately, the argument that he was held back by a rookie (throwing a ridiculous number of passes the team intends to scale back) can be continued this year when Tyrod Taylor is throwing him the ball. A passing/running QB hybrid in a run based offense won't provide a true test of Matthews' abilities, I bet people will say next offseason. We might need to wait until his free agency (maybe after) to get a real good read on him.

[Space Cowboy]

Can't see them using Matthews on the outside, he's never had success there in albeit limited chances but more simply he just doesn't profile as a guy that can play on the sidelines, feet aren't super quick, struggles getting separation, doesn't catch the ball at its high point and usually makes catches with his body.

So who do you think will play the outside? Boldin and Jones?

Great question, I don't know. Feels like the bills are starting 3 slot receivers this point based on what little Ive seen from Zay Jones. The problem is that even if the Bills do decide to use Matthews in an outside role I have serious questions if he will be able to make the most of his targets there.

Thats a defensive minded HC with too personnel power for ya.

[DJB]

So Mathews mostly played outside and mixed in a bit inside. Boldin mostly played the slot

[Hottoddies]

So Mathews mostly played outside and mixed in a bit inside. Boldin mostly played the slot

As I remember in 2016 in two receiver sets Matthews played on the outside and moved to the slot in three receiver sets.

[Reljac]

New Bills WR Jordan Matthews is "week to week" with a "chip fracture in his sternum."
Matthews suffered the injury during his first practice with the team on Sunday. "Week to week" is not a telling timetable, and it is unclear if Matthews will return for Week 1. Even if he does, it sounds like he is going to miss multiple weeks of practice, a major concern as he attempts to settle in with his new team. It is not inconceivable second-rounder Zay Jones opens the season as the No. 1 option.

That can't be a good way to start on a new team.