And here is one just because of Treadwell ...
http://rotoviz.com/2016/02/is-laquon-tr ... vid=2IWofv
Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
I'm pretty sure the comparison he was making was another guy who gets excuses year after year while lacking any actual production to back it up.ArrylT wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:24 pm Ok I'll bite lol - in what way are you comparing Coby Fleener to Donte Moncrief?
It certainly isnt height/weight. Fleener has 4 inches and 30-35 lb on Moncrief.
It isnt likely to be player profile comparison since they compare Fleener to Jared Cook and Donte Moncrief to Andre Johnson.
Not saying I agree or not, but the comparison seems pretty obvious.
12 Team FFPC TE Premium
QB: Herbert, Brady
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Jav Williams, Pierce, Drake
WR: Jefferson, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Hopkins, Peoples-Jones
TE: Kittle, Goedert
QB: Herbert, Brady
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Jav Williams, Pierce, Drake
WR: Jefferson, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Hopkins, Peoples-Jones
TE: Kittle, Goedert
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Oof. I am a Moncrief owner but the only people that article is going to make cringe are people that value good content. He literally shows a table with measurables that aren't that similar and then says "the similarities in measurables are uncanny!".ArrylT wrote: ↑Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:32 pm Heres an early off-season article sure to make disbelievers cringe.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/article/ ... omparison/
And somehow it still manages to go downhill from there.
12 Team FFPC TE Premium
QB: Herbert, Brady
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Jav Williams, Pierce, Drake
WR: Jefferson, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Hopkins, Peoples-Jones
TE: Kittle, Goedert
QB: Herbert, Brady
RB: Barkley, Mixon, Jav Williams, Pierce, Drake
WR: Jefferson, AJ Brown, Metcalf, Hopkins, Peoples-Jones
TE: Kittle, Goedert
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Fleener was TE #7 in 2014 and has been a high end TE 2 in the past 2 years. I think had he had 5 TDs instead of 3 TDs last year he'd have made top 12. So if it is a comparison by production I am not sure if that makes much sense.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
I never said it was a good article.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
If it was the mid to late 2nd and my pick was up I would rather take a shot on a long-term upside rookie like Taywan Taylor, ArDarius Stewart, etc. over Moncrief. He seems like a perpetual disappointment who will have a lot of peaks and valley's with little consistency.
The exception might be if I had a "win now" team without a solid WR3 or WR bench depth in which case Moncrief would be a good option.
The exception might be if I had a "win now" team without a solid WR3 or WR bench depth in which case Moncrief would be a good option.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Mahomes, Cam, Tannehill
RB: LeVeon, Jordan Howard, Latavius, Bryce Love, Ty Johnson
WR: OBJ, Antonio Brown, Corey Davis, Robby Anderson, Anthony Miller, Arcega-Whiteside,
Diontae Johnson, Hakeem Butler, DJ Chark, Darius Slayton
TE: OJ Howard, Evan Engram, Gerald Everett
K: Zuerlein
DEF: KC
QB: Mahomes, Cam, Tannehill
RB: LeVeon, Jordan Howard, Latavius, Bryce Love, Ty Johnson
WR: OBJ, Antonio Brown, Corey Davis, Robby Anderson, Anthony Miller, Arcega-Whiteside,
Diontae Johnson, Hakeem Butler, DJ Chark, Darius Slayton
TE: OJ Howard, Evan Engram, Gerald Everett
K: Zuerlein
DEF: KC
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Moncrief is a supremely gifted athlete and a red zone asset, he is a miserable NFL WR though. As a Colts fan I see a guy who has zero route running ability and poor hands. His success comes from being more athletic than the guy in front of him. In my experience that is not enough to excel in the NFL. I like how his struggles are partly being blamed on Luck's injuries, yet it is not mentioned that TY Hilton has done pretty ok in that same situation.
I am just a guy sharing some thoughts
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
i see nothing wrong with the idea of taking a rookie in that range in front of him if you choose, but that is not where the current value lies. imo, you would be foolish to trade crief for that pick alone, and likewise just as foolish to turn down crief if he was offered to you at that spot. you could move him tomorrow for more in nearly all leagues.mratlanta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 am If it was the mid to late 2nd and my pick was up I would rather take a shot on a long-term upside rookie like Taywan Taylor, ArDarius Stewart, etc. over Moncrief. He seems like a perpetual disappointment who will have a lot of peaks and valley's with little consistency.
The exception might be if I had a "win now" team without a solid WR3 or WR bench depth in which case Moncrief would be a good option.
in terms of perpetual disappointment...i couldnt disagree more. most got him in the 10-15 range if not farther back. he was able to show some talent the last few years and quite honestly, injuries to both he and luck the past 2 years have kept us all waiting. sure enough, we may be left waiting again, as i dont see them rushing luck back. while i wouldnt say that im thrilled with my investment, i certainly could have sold (and did in some instances) in the past for a very nice price.
in terms of wr3 or bench depth...im not sure how you could keep him there, but not in terms of taking a shot on a late 2nd-or later wr. dont get me wrong, i like some late wr's...but there is no way that i could see crief as a wr3 on a team and choose a rookie in that range. if that makes sense...at the end of the day....those values dont line up for most.
i think its more likely that your looking at a bust or a high end wr2 with some wr1 years. perhaps you feel he's a bust --> rather have the rookie wr. those holding are looking at the upside thats there if he pans out. just an opinion...but if crief and luck are healthy...he's getting minimum 120 targets and is going to score alot of points.
thats a big "IF" right now...and i would say that the perpetual disappointment you speak of is largely tied to the health of these two young guys.
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
so we are on the same page here....hilton finished as the overall wr22 and played every game in 2015. yes, he did do ok....but lets not pretend that he excelled without luck.murphysxm wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:17 am Moncrief is a supremely gifted athlete and a red zone asset, he is a miserable NFL WR though. As a Colts fan I see a guy who has zero route running ability and poor hands. His success comes from being more athletic than the guy in front of him. In my experience that is not enough to excel in the NFL. I like how his struggles are partly being blamed on Luck's injuries, yet it is not mentioned that TY Hilton has done pretty ok in that same situation.
i agree with your assessment of crief's skillset. fortunate for him...he is more athletic than nearly everyone he faces.
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Sort of a situation that is going to keep a guy overvalued until he utterly flops imo. Young uber athletic with the top young QB in the game throwing him the ball. Injuries have kept both these guys from being on the field together much and while that should be considered I think Moncrief has always left us wanting/hoping for a bit more.
Time will tell but time is running out and are the Colts his team (cap/cost) in 2018 if he goes 80-1100-12 this year?
Time will tell but time is running out and are the Colts his team (cap/cost) in 2018 if he goes 80-1100-12 this year?
DLF HOF League 16 team PPR
QB: Brees, Bradford, Lock(3.07)
RB: David Johnson, Penny, Sanders(1.07), Montgomery(1.06), Love(2.07) Bernard, MLynch, Morris, TJLogan, Joe Williams, Shaun Wilson
WR: Jeffery,Cooper, Josh Gordon, Dede Westbrook, Cam Meredith, Brice Butler, Chester Rogers, Lockett, Switzer, Malone, Cain (IR)
TE: Gronk, Swaim, Maxx Williams
QB: Brees, Bradford, Lock(3.07)
RB: David Johnson, Penny, Sanders(1.07), Montgomery(1.06), Love(2.07) Bernard, MLynch, Morris, TJLogan, Joe Williams, Shaun Wilson
WR: Jeffery,Cooper, Josh Gordon, Dede Westbrook, Cam Meredith, Brice Butler, Chester Rogers, Lockett, Switzer, Malone, Cain (IR)
TE: Gronk, Swaim, Maxx Williams
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
Sounds foolish to me. Why take someone with a WR4 ceiling that is going to take a few years to develop. At least if Moncrief fails again it will be easy to move on next year.mratlanta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 am If it was the mid to late 2nd and my pick was up I would rather take a shot on a long-term upside rookie like Taywan Taylor, ArDarius Stewart, etc. over Moncrief. He seems like a perpetual disappointment who will have a lot of peaks and valley's with little consistency.
The exception might be if I had a "win now" team without a solid WR3 or WR bench depth in which case Moncrief would be a good option.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
I couldn't agree more. It sounds more like some responders here are saying "I don't want to own Moncrief", rather than answering the real question... what is his value. Based on fantasy experts, rankings, and ADP... his value is clearly mid to late 1st. And the rationale is that he is still young, has flashed, is athletically superior, and is paired as a starter with in a passing offense w/ one of the better young QBs in the league.sloth8u wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 6:37 am i think its more likely that your looking at a bust or a high end wr2 with some wr1 years. perhaps you feel he's a bust --> rather have the rookie wr. those holding are looking at the upside thats there if he pans out. just an opinion...but if crief and luck are healthy...he's getting minimum 120 targets and is going to score alot of points.
thats a big "IF" right now...and i would say that the perpetual disappointment you speak of is largely tied to the health of these two young guys.
I certainly understand why some people don't want to own. He has his warts to date and like any player that hasn't made it yet, he has a risk of finishing as a bust.
At his current value there are clearly people who would want to trade him all day long... and there are also plenty of people that want to buy him now, because if he does indeed deliver this year you won't be able to get him for a single 1st round pick next year.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
WR4 ceiling? Please. Taylor as the Stefon Diggs getting tons of volume underneath on a dynamic Titans offense with Davis to take the lid off and a run first coach to keep defenses forced to commit to defending the run? Taylor easily has a WR2 ceiling, where do you get WR4 ceiling?Reljac wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:39 amSounds foolish to me. Why take someone with a WR4 ceiling that is going to take a few years to develop. At least if Moncrief fails again it will be easy to move on next year.mratlanta wrote: ↑Wed Aug 09, 2017 5:36 am If it was the mid to late 2nd and my pick was up I would rather take a shot on a long-term upside rookie like Taywan Taylor, ArDarius Stewart, etc. over Moncrief. He seems like a perpetual disappointment who will have a lot of peaks and valley's with little consistency.
The exception might be if I had a "win now" team without a solid WR3 or WR bench depth in which case Moncrief would be a good option.
This is the thing that kills me about Moncrief truthers! Taylor was drafted higher than Moncrief and is entering with youth, a fresh slate, a dynamic and rising offense, and a role tailor made for him that isn't being fulfilled by the team, and yet he has a WR4 ceiling? Meanwhile we are in year 4 waiting for the magical Moncrief season that approaches his hype? Where's the logic in that?
Remember where you are - this is Thunderdome.
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)
12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant
*5 leagues (est. 2015, '17, '18, '18, '22, 6 total 'ships)
12 Team SF, PPR, TE Prem., DT prem., IDP Start 10, QB, 1SF, 2-4 RB, 2-5 WR, 1-3 TE, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 1 IDPflex
QB: J. Fields, B. Mayfield, G. Smith, M. Mariota, S. Darnold
RB: T. Etienne, T. Pollard, S. Barkley, J.Jacobs A. Jones, , A. Gibson, D. Harris, Z. Moss, E. Elliott
WR: G. Wilson, T. Higgins, T. McLaurin C. Kirk, D. Hopkins, K. Toney. K. Osborn, M. Hardman
TE: T.J. Hockenson, K. Pitts, H. Henry
DL: M. Parsons, Q. Williams, D. Buckner, R. Gary
LB: F. Oluokun, R. Smith, A. Anzalone. L. David
DB: B. Baker, J. Metellus, R. Grant
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
_yeti wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:59 am This is the thing that kills me about Moncrief truthers! Taylor was drafted higher than Moncrief and is entering with youth, a fresh slate, a dynamic and rising offense, and a role tailor made for him that isn't being fulfilled by the team, and yet he has a WR4 ceiling? Meanwhile we are in year 4 waiting for the magical Moncrief season that approaches his hype? Where's the logic in that?
12 Team Non-PPR league. 2QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1RB/WR, 1TE, 1K, 1DL, 1LB, 1DB, 2DL/LB/DB
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion
10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins
QB: Brady, Stafford, Mariota, Tannehill
RB: L. Miller, A. Collins, K. Drake, R. Freeman, K. Dixon, D. Foreman, D. Murray, J. Allen, Gore
WR: Hopkins, ARob, S. Diggs, D. Parker, M. Lee, J. Matthews, T. Lockett, D. Pettis, Callaway
TE: T. Kelce, E. Ebron, C. Brate
K: Bailey, Coons, Boswell
DL: D. Hunter, R. Quinn, D. Lawrence
LB: Von Miller, A. Ogletree, B. Wagner T. Edmunds
DB: H. Smith, J. Cyprien, L. Collins
2017 Superbowl Champion
10 Team PPR League. Start QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, 1Superflex, 1Flex, 2DL, 2LB, 2DB, 3DFlex
QB: Luck, Goff, Trubisky, Prescott, Tannehill
RB: Gurley, Mixon, Barkley, D. Foreman
WR: Kupp, Cooper, C. Davis, Parker, T. Lockett, Kupp, W. Fuller, Sutton, John Brown, Callaway
TE: Kelce, Burton
DL: D. Lawrence, Ogunjobi, Ansah, M. Davenport
LB: L. Kuechly, T. Smith, Kiko Alonso, T. Edmunds, J. Smith, R. Foster
DB: Clinton-Dix, D. James, T. Edmunds, M. Jenkins
Re: Donte Moncrief Value [POLL]
I should've said more likely is a WR4/5.... and this is DLF right? because it came from one of our experts on his profile page:_yeti wrote: ↑Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:59 am
WR4 ceiling? Please. Taylor as the Stefon Diggs getting tons of volume underneath on a dynamic Titans offense with Davis to take the lid off and a run first coach to keep defenses forced to commit to defending the run? Taylor easily has a WR2 ceiling, where do you get WR4 ceiling?
Perfect compliment to Davis and Walker. Has a top-25 ceiling, but even that will take perfect usage. More likely a future WR4/5.
- Jeff Miller (8/6/17)
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
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