Training Camp Superstars

[ericanadian]

Not a digging deep here, but I saw Vikings training camp on Friday. Dalvin Cook sticks out. Caught a LOT of passes. He's a natural receiver. Also ran with the first team regularly.

Not too surprising though with Murray on the PUP. Still good to hear!

Starting over McKinnon is worth noting too.

McKinnon missed Friday and Saturday with a minor injury. He was apparently back Sunday, but can't find anything to indicate whether he was running with the starters or backups.

[Cult of Dionysus]

"Trent Taylor was the star of Saturday, catching a combined six passes in 11-on-11 and 7-on-7 drills. It came mostly against second and third-stringers, but production is production. Kyle Shanahan is lining up the 5-foot-8 Taylor both in the slot and a little bit on the outside. For a fifth-round pick just entering the league, Taylor’s a polished route runner and explosive once the football is in his hands. It’s not hard to see why he was Shanahan’s “draft crush” according to John Lynch."

http://www.knbr.com/2017/07/29/49ers-ca ... ver-day-2/

Full disclosure. I traded for Taylor after the rookie draft, where I failed to get him. So I own a share and expect big things from him. But nice to see him starting to impress and deliver on the field, even if its only the practice field.

[Shoreline Steamers]

Starting over McKinnon is worth noting too.

A little off topic, but I'm wondering what to do with McKinnon. I don't think he's a scrub... he could land in a good backup role next year and be worth something again. Don't know whether to drop him or not in the league where I own him.

Hold till after training camp if you can swing it. Without injury he won't be worth starting this year. But he will walk and hopefully end up as a 3rd down back somewhere. It's a crappy situation since I'm with you and think he has some talent.

I don't think he's a scrub either. But with the moves Minnesota made this offseason it certainly complicates things for McKinnon. I agree with SteveMaddensShoes in holding for now. He'll get some play in the preseason and maybe he makes a few big plays. That's the stuff that helped RB's like Abdullah insure they were early/mid dynasty picks when coming into the league. It happens with a player or two every year.

Short of that, you would likely have to hope for an injury to increase playing time. But that's not out of the question either. Guys like McKinnon are the one's that have me thinking, "How bitter will I be if I cut him, and he blows up on someone else's roster off waivers?" That usually guides my course of action.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I know you wanted under the radar guys, but I think it is worth noting that the DeVante Parker positive buzz is strongly continuing into camp. Some examples are here, here, here, and here.

Many dismissed the positive reports during the spring as puff pieces (for good reason). Now that it is continuing into camp and coming from reporters and defenders in addition to the coaches and offensive players earlier, I am starting to see it more as a consistent thread than a series of puff pieces.

[Valhalla]

I know you wanted under the radar guys, but I think it is worth noting that the DeVante Parker positive buzz is strongly continuing into camp. Some examples are here, here, here, and here.

Many dismissed the positive reports during the spring as puff pieces (for good reason). Now that it is continuing into camp and coming from reporters and defenders in addition to the coaches and offensive players earlier, I am starting to see it more as a consistent thread than a series of puff pieces.

It's good to hear glowing reports, as they are much better than either bad reports or no reports of looking like a stand-out...yet I expect this from Parker...at least in the offseason.
He's a great athlete, and very talented. There's not much to deny there. His problem, though, has mostly been that he gets timid at the catch point. He's shied away from contact catches to this point in his career. In the offseason, he knows it's light contact. Safeties will wrap him up gently and then let him go if they are arriving just after the ball. I expect him to look dominant and fearless right now due to his athleticism and no reason to fear a hit. In my opinion his real test will be how he performs after taking a big hit.

[clarion contrarion]

Not too surprising though with Murray on the PUP. Still good to hear!

Starting over McKinnon is worth noting too.

A little off topic, but I'm wondering what to do with McKinnon. I don't think he's a scrub... he could land in a good backup role next year and be worth something again. Don't know whether to drop him or not in the league where I own him.

I would imagine mckinnon checks a lot of boxes for you but he has had several chances to shine and has been mostly just a guy . I can see holding him for now but throughout the season if you are in the play off hunt and he has done little and you need the spot I would not hold on like he is like michael turner sitting behind LT , where it was apparent he was starter quality buried behind an all time great . To the best of my knowledge , the vikes Oline will still be ungood so I doubt he is a difference maker this season ( or ever frankly) .He MIGHT land in a nice spot next year so hold for now but not to your own short term detriment as I doubt the long term payoff will warrant blind faith IMO.

[clarion contrarion]

I know you wanted under the radar guys, but I think it is worth noting that the DeVante Parker positive buzz is strongly continuing into camp. Some examples are here, here, here, and here.

Many dismissed the positive reports during the spring as puff pieces (for good reason). Now that it is continuing into camp and coming from reporters and defenders in addition to the coaches and offensive players earlier, I am starting to see it more as a consistent thread than a series of puff pieces.

It's good to hear glowing reports, as they are much better than either bad reports or no reports of looking like a stand-out...yet I expect this from Parker...at least in the offseason.
He's a great athlete, and very talented. There's not much to deny there. His problem, though, has mostly been that he gets timid at the catch point. He's shied away from contact catches to this point in his career. In the offseason, he knows it's light contact. Safeties will wrap him up gently and then let him go if they are arriving just after the ball. I expect him to look dominant and fearless right now due to his athleticism and no reason to fear a hit. In my opinion his real test will be how he performs after taking a big hit.

the old todd pinkston corollary , heavy on talent- light on courage . At least pinkston played when the dbs were still allowed to clean up defenseless receivers hearing that about parker makes him an hard pass for me regardless of his talent . Talent is but one part of the equation.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

It's good to hear glowing reports, as they are much better than either bad reports or no reports of looking like a stand-out...yet I expect this from Parker...at least in the offseason.

Well that is the thing that makes it noteworthy for me. The positive reports from the coaches at padless minicamp are now being echoed by reporters at padded training camp practices. I didn't put much stock in them earlier, and I don't put a bunch of stock in reports from the first week of training camp. But when they are reporting the same thing, the consistent reporting starts to carry some weight, at least for me.

He's a great athlete, and very talented. There's not much to deny there. His problem, though, has mostly been that he gets timid at the catch point. He's shied away from contact catches to this point in his career. In the offseason, he knows it's light contact. Safeties will wrap him up gently and then let him go if they are arriving just after the ball. I expect him to look dominant and fearless right now due to his athleticism and no reason to fear a hit. In my opinion his real test will be how he performs after taking a big hit.

Man, this part I couldn't disagree with more. I have watched every pro game of Parker's (suffering dolphins fan), and while he isn't Boldin, I have never thought he had an issue taking a hit to make a catch. He has done it on several ocassions, and seems to have really good ball skills and aggressiveness when he can manage to get himself in the right spot without pulling up lame. His issues are lack of refined route running and lack of connection with Tannehill IMO. He has probably made more contested catches in the first 2 years of his career than a guy like Todd Pinkston made in his lifetime.

[Valhalla]

Starting over McKinnon is worth noting too.

A little off topic, but I'm wondering what to do with McKinnon. I don't think he's a scrub... he could land in a good backup role next year and be worth something again. Don't know whether to drop him or not in the league where I own him.

I would imagine mckinnon checks a lot of boxes for you but he has had several chances to shine and has been mostly just a guy . I can see holding him for now but throughout the season if you are in the play off hunt and he has done little and you need the spot I would not hold on like he is like michael turner sitting behind LT , where it was apparent he was starter quality buried behind an all time great . To the best of my knowledge , the vikes Oline will still be ungood so I doubt he is a difference maker this season ( or ever frankly) .He MIGHT land in a nice spot next year so hold for now but not to your own short term detriment as I doubt the long term payoff will warrant blind faith IMO.

I think there's enough reason to hold. Cook didn't take the job from McKinnon. McKinnon is/was out hurt. I think people might just be surprised with how much work this "third option back" will get.

As to him doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed...I can't quite agree with that. I would have definitely liked to see a higher level of success (don't we all want that from every player?) but I'm still hopeful from the talent I have seen displayed.

As a rookie, 113 carries in 11 games (6 starts), 538 yards at a 4.8. ypc clip. He also had 27 receptions. This was a college run option QB that the Vikings converted to RB, and that's not bad. He was new to blocking, new to that rushing role (running QB in college), and so expecting 800 or something was a little absurd.
2nd year, Peterson was back and on a rampage. McKinnon understandably saw less opportunity. 52 rushes for 271, 5.2 clip. 21 receptions. Basically a very good option for the rare Peterson breather. Can't fault the lack of opportunity OR criticize him for doing little with his chances. Thus far he was succeeding when given chances.
3rd year, if you don't know how injury riddled the Vikings OL was, you have little business judging McKinnon on this season. I won't lay out all the details/history here, as it's long and ugly. 3 man fronts routinely destroyed 6 Vikings blockers, giving no space to run and no time to pass. It was just a disaster of an OL with continuous injuries and rotating linemen.
McKinnon was getting his first real, potential heavy workload opportunity, and ran for only 539 and 2 at a 3.4 clip, catching 43 of 53 targets for 255 and 2. Not a good season...yet it was behind the worst OL play (but you can't expect an undrafted rookie free agent to protect the blind side effectively) I have ever personally watched. He was also running on an injured ankle, because he sort of had to with no other options for the Vikings.
He had high success in his opportunities as a rookie (limited because he was a project converted rb rookie), had success in his limited opportunities behind Peterson, and then failed to thrive in his third year. I'm not sure that qualifies as "doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed," at least not in my book.
Consider this: McKinnon ran for 3.4. Gross. No chance at anything meaningful coming from this guy, right? Todd Gurley ran for 3.2...behind a better OL...with much more opportunity and game design to get him going. Both were playing hurt.

[kamihamster]

Greg Ward Jr. He is a converted QB to WR. It is early but he has made some fabulous catches and apparently has caught a lot of attention. Crowded roster but another soft tissue injury from Alshon and a meltdown from Agholor and he could be on the roster.

Tanner Gentry from the Bears apparently has shown off great chemistry with Trubisky.

Those are two I've heard about thus far.

these two. i have the same two targets for my deeper rosters

[Dynasty DeLorean]

A little off topic, but I'm wondering what to do with McKinnon. I don't think he's a scrub... he could land in a good backup role next year and be worth something again. Don't know whether to drop him or not in the league where I own him.

I would imagine mckinnon checks a lot of boxes for you but he has had several chances to shine and has been mostly just a guy . I can see holding him for now but throughout the season if you are in the play off hunt and he has done little and you need the spot I would not hold on like he is like michael turner sitting behind LT , where it was apparent he was starter quality buried behind an all time great . To the best of my knowledge , the vikes Oline will still be ungood so I doubt he is a difference maker this season ( or ever frankly) .He MIGHT land in a nice spot next year so hold for now but not to your own short term detriment as I doubt the long term payoff will warrant blind faith IMO.

I think there's enough reason to hold. Cook didn't take the job from McKinnon. McKinnon is/was out hurt. I think people might just be surprised with how much work this "third option back" will get.

As to him doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed...I can't quite agree with that. I would have definitely liked to see a higher level of success (don't we all want that from every player?) but I'm still hopeful from the talent I have seen displayed.

As a rookie, 113 carries in 11 games (6 starts), 538 yards at a 4.8. ypc clip. He also had 27 receptions. This was a college run option QB that the Vikings converted to RB, and that's not bad. He was new to blocking, new to that rushing role (running QB in college), and so expecting 800 or something was a little absurd.
2nd year, Peterson was back and on a rampage. McKinnon understandably saw less opportunity. 52 rushes for 271, 5.2 clip. 21 receptions. Basically a very good option for the rare Peterson breather. Can't fault the lack of opportunity OR criticize him for doing little with his chances. Thus far he was succeeding when given chances.
3rd year, if you don't know how injury riddled the Vikings OL was, you have little business judging McKinnon on this season. I won't lay out all the details/history here, as it's long and ugly. 3 man fronts routinely destroyed 6 Vikings blockers, giving no space to run and no time to pass. It was just a disaster of an OL with continuous injuries and rotating linemen.
McKinnon was getting his first real, potential heavy workload opportunity, and ran for only 539 and 2 at a 3.4 clip, catching 43 of 53 targets for 255 and 2. Not a good season...yet it was behind the worst OL play (but you can't expect an undrafted rookie free agent to protect the blind side effectively) I have ever personally watched. He was also running on an injured ankle, because he sort of had to with no other options for the Vikings.
He had high success in his opportunities as a rookie (limited because he was a project converted rb rookie), had success in his limited opportunities behind Peterson, and then failed to thrive in his third year. I'm not sure that qualifies as "doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed," at least not in my book.
Consider this: McKinnon ran for 3.4. Gross. No chance at anything meaningful coming from this guy, right? Todd Gurley ran for 3.2...behind a better OL...with much more opportunity and game design to get him going. Both were playing hurt.

For me it's not that McKinnon is bad on the field... I know if he was given the starting job he'd be productive. It's more of a Christine Michael situation. The tools are there but will the guy ever put it all together.

[Valhalla]

I would imagine mckinnon checks a lot of boxes for you but he has had several chances to shine and has been mostly just a guy . I can see holding him for now but throughout the season if you are in the play off hunt and he has done little and you need the spot I would not hold on like he is like michael turner sitting behind LT , where it was apparent he was starter quality buried behind an all time great . To the best of my knowledge , the vikes Oline will still be ungood so I doubt he is a difference maker this season ( or ever frankly) .He MIGHT land in a nice spot next year so hold for now but not to your own short term detriment as I doubt the long term payoff will warrant blind faith IMO.

I think there's enough reason to hold. Cook didn't take the job from McKinnon. McKinnon is/was out hurt. I think people might just be surprised with how much work this "third option back" will get.

As to him doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed...I can't quite agree with that. I would have definitely liked to see a higher level of success (don't we all want that from every player?) but I'm still hopeful from the talent I have seen displayed.

As a rookie, 113 carries in 11 games (6 starts), 538 yards at a 4.8. ypc clip. He also had 27 receptions. This was a college run option QB that the Vikings converted to RB, and that's not bad. He was new to blocking, new to that rushing role (running QB in college), and so expecting 800 or something was a little absurd.
2nd year, Peterson was back and on a rampage. McKinnon understandably saw less opportunity. 52 rushes for 271, 5.2 clip. 21 receptions. Basically a very good option for the rare Peterson breather. Can't fault the lack of opportunity OR criticize him for doing little with his chances. Thus far he was succeeding when given chances.
3rd year, if you don't know how injury riddled the Vikings OL was, you have little business judging McKinnon on this season. I won't lay out all the details/history here, as it's long and ugly. 3 man fronts routinely destroyed 6 Vikings blockers, giving no space to run and no time to pass. It was just a disaster of an OL with continuous injuries and rotating linemen.
McKinnon was getting his first real, potential heavy workload opportunity, and ran for only 539 and 2 at a 3.4 clip, catching 43 of 53 targets for 255 and 2. Not a good season...yet it was behind the worst OL play (but you can't expect an undrafted rookie free agent to protect the blind side effectively) I have ever personally watched. He was also running on an injured ankle, because he sort of had to with no other options for the Vikings.
He had high success in his opportunities as a rookie (limited because he was a project converted rb rookie), had success in his limited opportunities behind Peterson, and then failed to thrive in his third year. I'm not sure that qualifies as "doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed," at least not in my book.
Consider this: McKinnon ran for 3.4. Gross. No chance at anything meaningful coming from this guy, right? Todd Gurley ran for 3.2...behind a better OL...with much more opportunity and game design to get him going. Both were playing hurt.

For me it's not that McKinnon is bad on the field... I know if he was given the starting job he'd be productive. It's more of a Christine Michael situation. The tools are there but will the guy ever put it all together.

Maybe not, but there's still reason to hold. Somehow his common narrative has become "a guy that has had numerous opportunities and just never shines." I don't know where that narrative came from. Last year may be the best opportunity he is ever given...and in that case he will be a player to forget. Yet that's not really a fair judgement of talent if the best opportunity he ever gets is the crap he dealt with last year. That happens all the time in sports, though. Crap opportunities or just plain lack of opportunity can sink a great prospect, or just keep him hidden/unknown/undiscovered. Kurt Warner was almost undiscovered, for example. An injury to Marc Bulger led to his discovery, if I remember right.
What if Drew Bledsoe never got hit? What if that 5th round QB continued to sit the bench and the Pats drafted a QB in the 2nd round in the next draft? What if Bledsoe was hit in game 16 instead and Brady didn't really get even a game to show what he could do, and the Pats drafted a top QB in the next draft?

Point is, I agree with you, DD. McKinnon may never do anything...but it might just be due to a lack of any real opportunity to shine. I like the talent and will hold.

[mclilj]

For those with special teams yds Isiah Mckenzie is apparently lighting up returns in denver. And who knows, that wr3 position is wide open.

I've also heard really nice things about Josh Doctson

[ericanadian]

I think there's enough reason to hold. Cook didn't take the job from McKinnon. McKinnon is/was out hurt. I think people might just be surprised with how much work this "third option back" will get.

As to him doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed...I can't quite agree with that. I would have definitely liked to see a higher level of success (don't we all want that from every player?) but I'm still hopeful from the talent I have seen displayed.

As a rookie, 113 carries in 11 games (6 starts), 538 yards at a 4.8. ypc clip. He also had 27 receptions. This was a college run option QB that the Vikings converted to RB, and that's not bad. He was new to blocking, new to that rushing role (running QB in college), and so expecting 800 or something was a little absurd.
2nd year, Peterson was back and on a rampage. McKinnon understandably saw less opportunity. 52 rushes for 271, 5.2 clip. 21 receptions. Basically a very good option for the rare Peterson breather. Can't fault the lack of opportunity OR criticize him for doing little with his chances. Thus far he was succeeding when given chances.
3rd year, if you don't know how injury riddled the Vikings OL was, you have little business judging McKinnon on this season. I won't lay out all the details/history here, as it's long and ugly. 3 man fronts routinely destroyed 6 Vikings blockers, giving no space to run and no time to pass. It was just a disaster of an OL with continuous injuries and rotating linemen.
McKinnon was getting his first real, potential heavy workload opportunity, and ran for only 539 and 2 at a 3.4 clip, catching 43 of 53 targets for 255 and 2. Not a good season...yet it was behind the worst OL play (but you can't expect an undrafted rookie free agent to protect the blind side effectively) I have ever personally watched. He was also running on an injured ankle, because he sort of had to with no other options for the Vikings.
He had high success in his opportunities as a rookie (limited because he was a project converted rb rookie), had success in his limited opportunities behind Peterson, and then failed to thrive in his third year. I'm not sure that qualifies as "doing little with multiple opportunities to succeed," at least not in my book.
Consider this: McKinnon ran for 3.4. Gross. No chance at anything meaningful coming from this guy, right? Todd Gurley ran for 3.2...behind a better OL...with much more opportunity and game design to get him going. Both were playing hurt.

For me it's not that McKinnon is bad on the field... I know if he was given the starting job he'd be productive. It's more of a Christine Michael situation. The tools are there but will the guy ever put it all together.

Maybe not, but there's still reason to hold. Somehow his common narrative has become "a guy that has had numerous opportunities and just never shines." I don't know where that narrative came from. Last year may be the best opportunity he is ever given...and in that case he will be a player to forget. Yet that's not really a fair judgement of talent if the best opportunity he ever gets is the crap he dealt with last year. That happens all the time in sports, though. Crap opportunities or just plain lack of opportunity can sink a great prospect, or just keep him hidden/unknown/undiscovered. Kurt Warner was almost undiscovered, for example. An injury to Marc Bulger led to his discovery, if I remember right.
What if Drew Bledsoe never got hit? What if that 5th round QB continued to sit the bench and the Pats drafted a QB in the 2nd round in the next draft? What if Bledsoe was hit in game 16 instead and Brady didn't really get even a game to show what he could do, and the Pats drafted a top QB in the next draft?

Point is, I agree with you, DD. McKinnon may never do anything...but it might just be due to a lack of any real opportunity to shine. I like the talent and will hold.

Injury was to Trent Green. Bulger was the Rams next QB after Warner. Also, very much agree on McKinnon.

[Valhalla]

For me it's not that McKinnon is bad on the field... I know if he was given the starting job he'd be productive. It's more of a Christine Michael situation. The tools are there but will the guy ever put it all together.

Maybe not, but there's still reason to hold. Somehow his common narrative has become "a guy that has had numerous opportunities and just never shines." I don't know where that narrative came from. Last year may be the best opportunity he is ever given...and in that case he will be a player to forget. Yet that's not really a fair judgement of talent if the best opportunity he ever gets is the crap he dealt with last year. That happens all the time in sports, though. Crap opportunities or just plain lack of opportunity can sink a great prospect, or just keep him hidden/unknown/undiscovered. Kurt Warner was almost undiscovered, for example. An injury to Marc Bulger led to his discovery, if I remember right.
What if Drew Bledsoe never got hit? What if that 5th round QB continued to sit the bench and the Pats drafted a QB in the 2nd round in the next draft? What if Bledsoe was hit in game 16 instead and Brady didn't really get even a game to show what he could do, and the Pats drafted a top QB in the next draft?

Point is, I agree with you, DD. McKinnon may never do anything...but it might just be due to a lack of any real opportunity to shine. I like the talent and will hold.

Injury was to Trent Green. Bulger was the Rams next QB after Warner. Also, very much agree on McKinnon.

Ah I felt like I might have been wrong about that. Thanks for the correction