Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

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Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Mephistopheles » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am

New owner comes into a league, takes a team with the 1.1, has a little bit of work needed but overall not a bad team. First offer he sends me has me giving A-Rob, pick 1.11, my 2018 1st and A. Rodgers for the 1.1 with a note that he'll also do this for Michael Thomas instead of A-Rob. I have a trade block, neither of those players are on it so yeahhhh, not close. His team name references Gronk and he has a strong need at TE so I figure he might want to do something for Gronk, and I offer him Gronk, Perkins and my 2018 1st for 1.1, John Brown and Willie Snead. Get back a reject with 2 paragraphs on how he's rebuilding and how much he hates Gronk and the only way he trades 1.1 to me is if I give him either A-Rob or Thomas plus my two 1st round picks. Okay then, Buh-bye, asshole.

So now you have the backstory. Then, Last night, this peckerhead completes this offer:

Team A (Peckerhead) gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

I've spent a half-hour trying to make sense of this trade, Maybe I can justify Perriman for 1.7, but then that means he basically traded 1.1 for a 2018 mid-1st. Or maybe 1.07 and 2018 mid-1st for 1.01 (huge undersell), but then he gave Perriman for free?

The more I play this game, the less I get in tune with the dumbass trades some people make, especially when they are the polar opposite extreme with how they deal with me.

Anybody got an explanation for this one?
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby moishetreats » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:41 am

He probably believes the following:

1.07 > Gronk

And he doesn't have to give up Snead, whom he might like. I could see why he would prefer the offer that he took instead of yours. That being said, I think that he sold light in the trade that he made (and I think that he would have sold light in yours).

In other words, IMO, 1.01 >> than the trade that he accepted > (if you like 1.07 over Gronk) than the trade that you offered.

I think that he started by asking for the moon, which frustrated you. You then offered less than you would have had his initial offer been more reasonable. And then he accepted something else that was light... Seems like you guys just butted heads from the get-go. I'd send him a conciliatory email to build a trade partner for the future.
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Madadamus » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:44 am

This happens all the time with inexperienced owners. It's pretty frustrating but you really can't do anything so I wouldn't try to make sense of it.
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby StableOfRBs » Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am

SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am New owner comes into a league, takes a team with the 1.1, has a little bit of work needed but overall not a bad team. First offer he sends me has me giving A-Rob, pick 1.11, my 2018 1st and A. Rodgers for the 1.1 with a note that he'll also do this for Michael Thomas instead of A-Rob. I have a trade block, neither of those players are on it so yeahhhh, not close. His team name references Gronk and he has a strong need at TE so I figure he might want to do something for Gronk, and I offer him Gronk, Perkins and my 2018 1st for 1.1, John Brown and Willie Snead. Get back a reject with 2 paragraphs on how he's rebuilding and how much he hates Gronk and the only way he trades 1.1 to me is if I give him either A-Rob or Thomas plus my two 1st round picks. Okay then, Buh-bye, asshole.

So now you have the backstory. Then, Last night, this peckerhead completes this offer:

Team A (Peckerhead) gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

I've spent a half-hour trying to make sense of this trade, Maybe I can justify Perriman for 1.7, but then that means he basically traded 1.1 for a 2018 mid-1st. Or maybe 1.07 and 2018 mid-1st for 1.01 (huge undersell), but then he gave Perriman for free?

The more I play this game, the less I get in tune with the dumbass trades some people make, especially when they are the polar opposite extreme with how they deal with me.

Anybody got an explanation for this one?
Well if he's new to the league he's not gonna have any idea who values what players where so a severe lack of context means he's probably gonna send out some really strange offers until he gets acclimated to the league.

He could think that with Shady's age it's possible that he could get hurt and Jonathan Williams takes over and becomes the starter sometime this year and going forward and if he's real desperate for TE help might think he'll get Howard at the 1.07, Carroo > Agholor and a '18 1st > Perriman (especially with Maclin in BAL now) so I don't think it's a terrible trade although I could understand how it might seem more lopsided to some people than others.

Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Tsunami » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:18 am

StableOfRBs wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
The new owner (and anyone who defends this crap) is just an idiot. Sorry if he ruins your league, your commish should have screened better.

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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Mephistopheles » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:27 am

StableOfRBs wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am
SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am New owner comes into a league, takes a team with the 1.1, has a little bit of work needed but overall not a bad team. First offer he sends me has me giving A-Rob, pick 1.11, my 2018 1st and A. Rodgers for the 1.1 with a note that he'll also do this for Michael Thomas instead of A-Rob. I have a trade block, neither of those players are on it so yeahhhh, not close. His team name references Gronk and he has a strong need at TE so I figure he might want to do something for Gronk, and I offer him Gronk, Perkins and my 2018 1st for 1.1, John Brown and Willie Snead. Get back a reject with 2 paragraphs on how he's rebuilding and how much he hates Gronk and the only way he trades 1.1 to me is if I give him either A-Rob or Thomas plus my two 1st round picks. Okay then, Buh-bye, asshole.

So now you have the backstory. Then, Last night, this peckerhead completes this offer:

Team A (Peckerhead) gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

I've spent a half-hour trying to make sense of this trade, Maybe I can justify Perriman for 1.7, but then that means he basically traded 1.1 for a 2018 mid-1st. Or maybe 1.07 and 2018 mid-1st for 1.01 (huge undersell), but then he gave Perriman for free?

The more I play this game, the less I get in tune with the dumbass trades some people make, especially when they are the polar opposite extreme with how they deal with me.

Anybody got an explanation for this one?
Well if he's new to the league he's not gonna have any idea who values what players where so a severe lack of context means he's probably gonna send out some really strange offers until he gets acclimated to the league.

He could think that with Shady's age it's possible that he could get hurt and Jonathan Williams takes over and becomes the starter sometime this year and going forward and if he's real desperate for TE help might think he'll get Howard at the 1.07, Carroo > Agholor and a '18 1st > Perriman (especially with Maclin in BAL now) so I don't think it's a terrible trade although I could understand how it might seem more lopsided to some people than others.

Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
Couple of things to clarify:

1. I did not express any interest or ask after the 1.1 pick, in fact he asked me a week earlier if I was interested in trading for the 1.1 pick, that he was interested in A-Rob and Thomas and I had politely told him "Not at all, I'm not looking to move A-Rob or Thomas". Also, I had an extensive trade block that did not include Robinson or Thomas. Point being, his initial offer came at me out of the blue with him offering an asset that I had already told him I was not interested in for assets that I had already told him I was not looking to move and were not in my trade bait.

2. I did explain to him in my rejection that I saw Robinson and Thomas as worth a lot more than the 1.1 pick and he would have to add to the 1.1 to get me to trade those guys. In his response, he said that he absolutely had to have one of those 2 players plus the 2 picks and he would not add anything to it or he would not do a deal. My response was "fine, then we won't be able do a deal".

Here's the thing...I'm still not seeing how somebody goes from saying to one person "you have to give me A-Rob or Thomas and 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 and I won't move off that" after being informed that I valued A-Rob and Thomas alone more than the 1.1...to accepting that piece of crap deal that he did.

As far as the offer I sent him, the argument could be made that Gronk >= 1.1, Snead > 1.11, and 2018 1st > J. Brown, so as an initial counter, without knowing his specific values, it's not that unreasonable or unworkable. It certainly was a hell of a lot more workable than me sending a player worth more than his asset and having to add 2 more pieces to it...and him absolutely refusing to move off that.

I'm not on any high horse here, and to be clear, I didn't not care about the initial discussion, which was just another one of hundreds that I have every year. It was the diametric shift in how he negotiated from the absolute position of having to have A-Rob or Thomas plus 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 to what he actually accepted that has me scratching my head.
Last edited by Mephistopheles on Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Cowboysfan33 » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:29 am

SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am New owner comes into a league, takes a team with the 1.1, has a little bit of work needed but overall not a bad team. First offer he sends me has me giving A-Rob, pick 1.11, my 2018 1st and A. Rodgers for the 1.1 with a note that he'll also do this for Michael Thomas instead of A-Rob. I have a trade block, neither of those players are on it so yeahhhh, not close. His team name references Gronk and he has a strong need at TE so I figure he might want to do something for Gronk, and I offer him Gronk, Perkins and my 2018 1st for 1.1, John Brown and Willie Snead. Get back a reject with 2 paragraphs on how he's rebuilding and how much he hates Gronk and the only way he trades 1.1 to me is if I give him either A-Rob or Thomas plus my two 1st round picks. Okay then, Buh-bye, asshole.

So now you have the backstory. Then, Last night, this peckerhead completes this offer:

Team A (Peckerhead) gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

I've spent a half-hour trying to make sense of this trade, Maybe I can justify Perriman for 1.7, but then that means he basically traded 1.1 for a 2018 mid-1st. Or maybe 1.07 and 2018 mid-1st for 1.01 (huge undersell), but then he gave Perriman for free?

The more I play this game, the less I get in tune with the dumbass trades some people make, especially when they are the polar opposite extreme with how they deal with me.

Anybody got an explanation for this one?
He sounds like a very inexperienced dynasty owner to me. It's hard to make sense of that one.

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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby ericanadian » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:44 am

SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:27 am
StableOfRBs wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am
SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:33 am New owner comes into a league, takes a team with the 1.1, has a little bit of work needed but overall not a bad team. First offer he sends me has me giving A-Rob, pick 1.11, my 2018 1st and A. Rodgers for the 1.1 with a note that he'll also do this for Michael Thomas instead of A-Rob. I have a trade block, neither of those players are on it so yeahhhh, not close. His team name references Gronk and he has a strong need at TE so I figure he might want to do something for Gronk, and I offer him Gronk, Perkins and my 2018 1st for 1.1, John Brown and Willie Snead. Get back a reject with 2 paragraphs on how he's rebuilding and how much he hates Gronk and the only way he trades 1.1 to me is if I give him either A-Rob or Thomas plus my two 1st round picks. Okay then, Buh-bye, asshole.

So now you have the backstory. Then, Last night, this peckerhead completes this offer:

Team A (Peckerhead) gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

I've spent a half-hour trying to make sense of this trade, Maybe I can justify Perriman for 1.7, but then that means he basically traded 1.1 for a 2018 mid-1st. Or maybe 1.07 and 2018 mid-1st for 1.01 (huge undersell), but then he gave Perriman for free?

The more I play this game, the less I get in tune with the dumbass trades some people make, especially when they are the polar opposite extreme with how they deal with me.

Anybody got an explanation for this one?
Well if he's new to the league he's not gonna have any idea who values what players where so a severe lack of context means he's probably gonna send out some really strange offers until he gets acclimated to the league.

He could think that with Shady's age it's possible that he could get hurt and Jonathan Williams takes over and becomes the starter sometime this year and going forward and if he's real desperate for TE help might think he'll get Howard at the 1.07, Carroo > Agholor and a '18 1st > Perriman (especially with Maclin in BAL now) so I don't think it's a terrible trade although I could understand how it might seem more lopsided to some people than others.

Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
Couple of things to clarify:

1. I did not express any interest or ask after the 1.1 pick, in fact he asked me a week earlier if I was interested in trading for the 1.1 pick, that he was interested in A-Rob and Thomas and I had politely told him "Not at all, I'm not looking to move A-Rob or Thomas". Also, I had an extensive trade block that did not include Robinson or Thomas. Point being, his initial offer came at me out of the blue with him offering an asset that I had already told him I was not interested in for assets that I had already told him I was not looking to move and were not in my trade bait.

2. I did explain to him in my rejection that I saw Robinson and Thomas as worth a lot more than the 1.1 pick and he would have to add to the 1.1 to get me to trade those guys. In his response, he said that he absolutely had to have one of those 2 players plus the 2 picks and he would not add anything to it or he would not do a deal. My response was "fine, then we won't be able do a deal".

Here's the thing...I'm still not seeing how somebody goes from saying to one person "you have to give me A-Rob or Thomas and 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 and I won't move off that" after being informed that I valued A-Rob and Thomas alone more than the 1.1...to accepting that piece of crap deal that he did.

As far as the offer I sent him, the argument could be made that Gronk >= 1.1, Snead > 1.11, and 2018 1st > J. Brown, so as an initial counter, without knowing his specific values, it's not that unreasonable or unworkable. It certainly was a hell of a lot more workable than me sending a player worth more than his asset and having to add 2 more pieces to it...and him absolutely refusing to move off that.

I'm not on any high horse here, and to be clear, I didn't not care about the initial discussion, which was just another one of hundreds that I have every year. It was the diametric shift in how he negotiated from the absolute position of having to have A-Rob or Thomas plus 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 to what he actually accepted that has me scratching my head.
You completely ignore context. If you're rebuilding, do you want Gronk or one of Fournette/Davis? It's not even close in my view and Gronk isn't even in the ballpark of the 1.1 for a rebuilding team. He felt your offer was a low-ball offer, so he countered with an over-the-top in response hoping to meet somewhere in the middle. You likely never would've come to an agreement because he probably thinks 1.1 is at least equal to Thomas/ ARob. It's debatable with ARob, but I'm firmly in agreement with you on Thomas. Ultimately, the bottom line for me is that your valuations were off enough that a deal wasn't getting done, so why concern yourself with how far off it was?
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Igwebuike 4 Prez » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:47 am

You sound more upset that he didn't take your counter offer (which is less value than the offer he accepted) than concerned he is going to undermine the league.

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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Mephistopheles » Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:59 am

Igwebuike 4 Prez wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:47 am You sound more upset that he didn't take your counter offer (which is less value than the offer he accepted) than concerned he is going to undermine the league.
I don't care about the counter offer. I felt it was a reasonable effort (not knowing he was rebuilding) but he drew a hard line in the sand that I was going to grossly overpay him for the pick that I told him three times I really wasn't all that interested in.
I'm more confused about him asking for the universe in a deal and then refusing to discuss it at all...then turning around and accepting an offer that was worth less than half of the deal that he said was an absolute "take it or leave it" deal and he refused to move off.
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Mephistopheles » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:01 am

ericanadian wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:44 am
SCYCPA wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:27 am
StableOfRBs wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am
Well if he's new to the league he's not gonna have any idea who values what players where so a severe lack of context means he's probably gonna send out some really strange offers until he gets acclimated to the league.

He could think that with Shady's age it's possible that he could get hurt and Jonathan Williams takes over and becomes the starter sometime this year and going forward and if he's real desperate for TE help might think he'll get Howard at the 1.07, Carroo > Agholor and a '18 1st > Perriman (especially with Maclin in BAL now) so I don't think it's a terrible trade although I could understand how it might seem more lopsided to some people than others.

Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
Couple of things to clarify:

1. I did not express any interest or ask after the 1.1 pick, in fact he asked me a week earlier if I was interested in trading for the 1.1 pick, that he was interested in A-Rob and Thomas and I had politely told him "Not at all, I'm not looking to move A-Rob or Thomas". Also, I had an extensive trade block that did not include Robinson or Thomas. Point being, his initial offer came at me out of the blue with him offering an asset that I had already told him I was not interested in for assets that I had already told him I was not looking to move and were not in my trade bait.

2. I did explain to him in my rejection that I saw Robinson and Thomas as worth a lot more than the 1.1 pick and he would have to add to the 1.1 to get me to trade those guys. In his response, he said that he absolutely had to have one of those 2 players plus the 2 picks and he would not add anything to it or he would not do a deal. My response was "fine, then we won't be able do a deal".

Here's the thing...I'm still not seeing how somebody goes from saying to one person "you have to give me A-Rob or Thomas and 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 and I won't move off that" after being informed that I valued A-Rob and Thomas alone more than the 1.1...to accepting that piece of crap deal that he did.

As far as the offer I sent him, the argument could be made that Gronk >= 1.1, Snead > 1.11, and 2018 1st > J. Brown, so as an initial counter, without knowing his specific values, it's not that unreasonable or unworkable. It certainly was a hell of a lot more workable than me sending a player worth more than his asset and having to add 2 more pieces to it...and him absolutely refusing to move off that.

I'm not on any high horse here, and to be clear, I didn't not care about the initial discussion, which was just another one of hundreds that I have every year. It was the diametric shift in how he negotiated from the absolute position of having to have A-Rob or Thomas plus 2 more 1sts for the 1.1 to what he actually accepted that has me scratching my head.
You completely ignore context. If you're rebuilding, do you want Gronk or one of Fournette/Davis? It's not even close in my view and Gronk isn't even in the ballpark of the 1.1 for a rebuilding team. He felt your offer was a low-ball offer, so he countered with an over-the-top in response hoping to meet somewhere in the middle. You likely never would've come to an agreement because he probably thinks 1.1 is at least equal to Thomas/ ARob. It's debatable with ARob, but I'm firmly in agreement with you on Thomas. Ultimately, the bottom line for me is that your valuations were off enough that a deal wasn't getting done, so why concern yourself with how far off it was?
At the time I countered, I did not know he was rebuilding. He did not give that information until he rejected my counter.
As I said earlier, he drew a hard line in the sand with me and refused to discuss further or take any less, then took an offer from someone else that was worth less than 1/2 that.
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby StableOfRBs » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:18 am

Tsunami wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:18 am
StableOfRBs wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:55 am Also, just because someone values players and picks differently than you do (most dynasty owners overvalue 1st round picks imo, especially near the draft) doesn't make them an asshole, hell I think the trade you sent him was more lopsided than the one he eventually ended up making so, y'know, maybe get off your high horse?
The new owner (and anyone who defends this crap) is just an idiot. Sorry if he ruins your league, your commish should have screened better.
I'm just saying that the current perceived value of a player shouldn't dictate whether a trade is "good" or not in dynasty when it's players who have volatile values like Perriman/Agholor/Carroo/Williams (these kinds of players also tend to be the most traded which is why this comes up so often)

For me the best player in the trade the guy made was Jonathan Williams because the backup to an aging McCoy with Gillislee gone is worth more to me than the WR3 for the Ravens who had 33 catches in 16 games last year and the WR4 for the Eagles who has only proven that he shouldn't even be on the field yet/if at all

As for the picks, trading back 6 spots in a deep draft where you can still get a potential top tier TE in Howard when that's a sore need on your team (or possibly Mixon/Cook/Williams) is worth getting an '18 1st even if it ends up being the 1.06 next year for a guy who already specifically stated he was looking to rebuild

For all anyone knows Carroo could be the best player in this deal for whatever reason by the end of the year, Cook/Mixon/Williams/Howard could be the OROY and Fournette/Davis/McCaffrey ends up busting and the guy's '18 1st is the 1.01-1.03 and this trade looks like gold for the guy who traded away this years 1.01 in a draft that's flush with talent

Maybe the OP and the guy he's complaining about got off on the wrong foot but this trade is hardly going to "ruin his league"
Greek Mythology League - Heracles - 2QB/3RB/4WR/2TE/2Flex/2DT/2DE/4LB/2CB/2S/1DFlex:
https://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2022/home/13740#1

Marvel vs. DC League - Lords of Order - 1QB/2RB/3WR/1TE/1SFlex/2Flex/1DT/2DE/3LB/1CB/2S/1DFlex:
https://www54.myfantasyleague.com/2022/home/58114#1

Mephistopheles
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby Mephistopheles » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:18 am

I know everybody hates these things, but here's what 2 trade analyzers had to say about these:

First offer by him which he refused to negotiate (1.1 for A-Rob, 1.11, 2018 1st (mid), and A. Rodgers):
DTC: Side 1 - 30.0 Side 2 - 76.6 Difference of 155% in his favor
DFFT: - Side 1 - 6505 Side 2- 15,986 Difference of 145% in his favor
Counter offer (Gronk, Perkins, 2018 1st (mid) for 1.1, Snead, J. Brown):
DTC: Side 1 - 39.2 Side 2: 42.5 Difference of 8.4% in my favor. without knowing the context of his rebuild, not out of line.
DFFT: side 1 - 9299 Side 2: 9197 Difference of 1% IN HIS FAVOR
Accepted trade: (1.1, Perriman, Agholor for Jon Williams, 1.7, Carroo, 2018 1st (mid)):
DTC: side 1 - 39.9 Side 2: 31.0 a 25% loss for the side trading 1.1
DFFT: side 1: 7865 side 2: 4154 a 47% loss for the side trading 1.1

Looking at this, this trade and his hardline position with me look even worse than I thought.
PSA - Haggling is NOT the same as negotiating.

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nabright
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby nabright » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:39 am

The trade is bad, but it is not that bad. The 1.7 and '18 1st is a decent offer for the 1.1. Still light though. So, now we're looking at Perriman for Williams(Carroo and Agholar are both barely roster-able in a deep league imo). Consensus is Perriman is worth more, but I think the Ravens lack faith in him by signing Maclin. I see him as nothing more than a deep threat, who was vaulted into the first purely based off his combine. Williams on the other hand in one of my favorite handcuff backs in the league. If Shady were to go down, I think he would produce pretty good numbers. All in all, the value is clearly on the side with the 1.1. However, I could see it being viewed differently this time next year.

As for what he was asking from you, maybe he was just trying to get you to come down on your price for ARob or Thomas. I see it all the time. People will ask for a crazy amount for one of their players, just to try to get you to come down on your price. It's stupid, but some people think it works.
Team 1
12tm, Super-flex, 1PPR, start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/OP
QB: ARod, Wilson, Goff, Winston, Taysom Hill
RB: Cook, Mack, Barber, L. Murray, Ito Smith, Bibbs
WR: ARob, Kupp, Miller(Chi), Agholar, Doctson, Grant, Gordon Z. Jones, Quinn(Wsh), Wilson(Mia)
TE: Reed, Ebron, Andrews, V. Davis, Gates, Herndon
Team 2
12tm, Super-flex, 1PPR, start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/FLEX/OP
QB: Luck, Tanny, Goff
RB: Henry, Drake
WR: Nuk, ARob, Cooper, JuJu, Shepard, Hurns, Lockett, Stewart, Kupp
TE: Doyle, Allen, Clay
Team 3
14tm Super-flex, 1.5PPR and 1.5pts per 10yds for TEs, 1PPR for WRs, .5ppr and .25ppc for RBs. start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/FLEX/OP
QB: Luck, Goff, Jones
RB: Henry, Ekeler, Howard, Hines, Kelley, McKinnon, Samuels
WR: Cooks, Ridley, Ross, Callaway, Moncreif, MWilliams, Enunwa, Kupp, Golladay, Kearse, Reynolds
TE: Howard, Hurst

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ArrylT
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Re: Head Scratcher of a trade - can someone explain this?

Postby ArrylT » Sun Jul 09, 2017 8:53 am

I like his deal - love it or think it is a slam dunk - no, but I think he did a deal that could be good for his team. So yeah if I owned his team and the only 2 offers I could choose to do were the one he did or the one you offered I'd do the deal he did 10x out of 10. Both John Brown & Willie Snead could be worth a lot more in-season (I wouldnt be surprised if they could earn 1sts on their own) so I am not surprised he didnt want to "throw them in".


Team A gives: Perriman, 1.01, and Agholor
Team B gives: 1.07, 2018 1st (likely mid), Carroo, Jonathan Williams.

Assuming the 2018 first is a mid - which is impossible to project safely - just guesstimate - that makes the 1.01 for basically 1.06 & 1.06/7/8.

I like Carroo more than Perriman, and Williams more than Agholor (I actually just picked up Agholor off of waivers in a league and not a shallow one at that).

Depending on how a leagues rookie draft runs that could easily be a Fournette/Davis for Mike Williams &/OR Dalvin Cook and/or OJ Howard.

There are still owners who feel Dalvin Cook is the top RB or Mike Williams the top WR, and here is a trade (where if the 2018 first was actually a 2017 first) you could conceivably get Cook & Mike Williams by trading away the 1.01. At the very least it looks like he gave away a tier 1a asset to get 2 tier 1b assets (assuming tier 1a has 4 players and tier 1b has 3-4).

Now obviously this is a 2018 1st, but it could be that the owner acquiring it is projecting it or gambling it will be even higher than a mid. There was an owner in one of my leagues that gave up the 1.08, a future 2nd, a future 3rd & Abdullah all to get an owners future 1st (and M. Lynch) that I suppose he projecting as a top 4.

So it seems to me that your owner is moving the pick hoping to get a similarly valuable pick (top 4) and extra on the side by getting rid of assets he might not believe in (Perriman & Agholor) for those he feels have more long term value or easier to flip (Carroo / Williams).

Plus by subtracting - assuming Fournette/Mixon/Davis as 1.01 - the production he doesnt get also helps his odds at getting an early 1st next year - so it is feasible that next year he'll have 2 of the top 4 picks - or maybe both picks will end up late - but it is likely that is the rationale here - punt 2017 and add picks in what is being deemed (early on admittedly) as a class as strong as 2017, or maybe stronger.
Please speak to clarion contrarion before considering the use of vetos..


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