Most Athletic Rookie TE

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
User avatar
thebeast
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5645
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby thebeast » Wed Jul 05, 2017 5:26 pm

1. I wouldn't take a TE at 1.07, period.
2. However, if I had to I would take Engram. OJ will likely be a better real life TE, but Engram is basically a big pass catcher they will use to create mismatches and use in the red zone. OJ better IRL, Engram better FF.

User avatar
Tsunami
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby Tsunami » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:25 pm

If I was in the NFL I would definitely want Howard. He's bigger and stronger and a better blocker. But if I'm playing fantasy football, offense is all that we get points for. So I want the most receiver-like TE that stays in the game. Howard is likely to play a lot, but not necessarily to be involved in the offense all that much. If Evan Engram can block well enough to stay on the field, he is definitely the best offensive option.

User avatar
Pac_Eddy
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5057
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:12 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby Pac_Eddy » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:59 am

Tsunami wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:25 pm If I was in the NFL I would definitely want Howard. He's bigger and stronger and a better blocker. But if I'm playing fantasy football, offense is all that we get points for. So I want the most receiver-like TE that stays in the game. Howard is likely to play a lot, but not necessarily to be involved in the offense all that much. If Evan Engram can block well enough to stay on the field, he is definitely the best offensive option.
So the Bucs used the #19 pick on a solid blocker who won't necessarily be involved in the offense all that much?

Yikes.
Not all that counts can be counted. Not all that can be counted counts.

User avatar
Tsunami
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1721
Joined: Fri Jul 05, 2013 12:46 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby Tsunami » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:32 am

Pac_Eddy wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:59 am
Tsunami wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:25 pm If I was in the NFL I would definitely want Howard. He's bigger and stronger and a better blocker. But if I'm playing fantasy football, offense is all that we get points for. So I want the most receiver-like TE that stays in the game. Howard is likely to play a lot, but not necessarily to be involved in the offense all that much. If Evan Engram can block well enough to stay on the field, he is definitely the best offensive option.
So the Bucs used the #19 pick on a solid blocker who won't necessarily be involved in the offense all that much?

Yikes.
The Redskins used the #17 pick on a solid blocker who won't be involved in the offense.

Crwdstunna
Captain
Captain
Posts: 931
Joined: Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:32 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby Crwdstunna » Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:57 am

Don't get me wrong, I think OJ Howard has a super high ceiling, but his lack of production in college is concerning. I don't know how that isn't brought up more as a major concern. I get that Alabama didn't use him right, blah blah, but if he is that amazing why wouldn't Bama adjust their game planning to get him more involved consistently. They don't come off as a stupid coaching staff. Just playing devil advocate here.
10 Team PPR Dynasty League (1QB 2RB 2WR 1TE 2Flex) 2018 Champ
QB: B Mayfield- D Brees- M Mariota RB: A Kamara- M Ingram- Du Johnson- C Hyde- M Lynch- A Peterson- G Edwards- L Murray- C Warren WR: A Brown- D Hopkins- T Boyd- A Jeffery- S Shepard- N Agholor- D Moncrief- L Fitzgerald- M Goodwin TE: OJ Howard- D Goedert
16 Team PPR Dynasty League (1QB 2RB 3WR 1TE)
QB: B Roethlisberger- C Keenum RB: Da Johnson- P Lindsay- J White- F Gore WR: A Thielen- C Kupp- K Golladay- C Sutton- A Miller- Tr Smith TE: OJ Howard- D Goerdert- C Herndon- A Hooper

12 Team PPR Dynasty League (2QB 2RB 2WR 2TE 3FLEX)
QB: C Newton- M Mariota- M Trubisky RB: S Barkley- J Mixon- C McCaffrey- N Hines- C Clement- C Carson WR: S Watkins- J Landry- S Diggs- C Godwin- M Williams- M Lee- K Golladay TE: R Gronkowski- D Njoku- G Kittle- E Ebron

FFFAN
Starter
Starter
Posts: 608
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 2:32 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby FFFAN » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:12 am

Howard is extremely overrated. He survived because he played on a dominant Alabama team that constantly had big leads which lead to great play action opportunities. If you watch his highlight package you'll see many of his grabs come against helpless linebackers who pinched up expecting a run due to their team being behind by 30+.

Engram is easily the best pass catching TE in this class and if you watch his film you'll realize the nightmare he'll present to defenses.

1 . Engram
2. Njoku
3. Everett
4. kittle
5. Howard

When you factor in draft pedigree
1 . Engram
2. Njoku
3. Howard
4. Everett
5. Kittle

User avatar
jcc6fd
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4973
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby jcc6fd » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:38 am

ericanadian wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 4:29 pm
jcc6fd wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 2:54 pm Fair enough. If you liked his potential and don't want the combine or draft position/situation to pollute your rankings and you had Njoku ranked ahead of Engram or even Howard then that's fair. I don't think that's the consensus though. Most had Engram above Njoku predraft and DLF's rankings agreed with that line of thinking, making me think Engram was the more talented player (or at least the better risk/reward player) regardless of situation. Post-draft the two promptly flip-flopped both in expert rankings and in conversation via these forums. I don't think it's a coincidence.
TE is one of the more situation dependant positions in the NFL. I have no problem with people adjusting rankings within tiers based on landing spots. Howard is clearly the best TE for me in this draft, but unless he drops a lot, with the depth of this TE class, I'm likely grabbing Kittle, Shaheen, Everett, Smith, Butt or Hodges later on.
I don't disagree with you on the notion that situation should affect rankings. I think situation for most if not all positions is way more important than most ardent dynasty players want to admit.

However, my point is more related to the OPs question of who the most athletic/talented TE is in this draft. We all started talking about how Njoku is the "most athletic" after the draft, while the combine metrics and pre-draft consensus seems to disagree with the current rhetoric that Njoku is a better athletic talent than Engram. I'd pick Njoku above Engram, but admittedly I didn't know which I liked more predraft and situation is what pushed Njoku above Engram for me.
10 Team Half PPR Scoring SF
QB: Mahomes, Hurts, Minshew
RB: Kamara, K. Hunt, Warren, Bigsby, D. Cook, Jamaal Williams, J. Wilson, McLaughlin, McKinnon, J. Kelley
WR: A.J. Brown, Diggs, K. Allen, C. Watson, Cooks, Pickens, W. Robinson
TE: Kelce, J. Smith, Musgrave

User avatar
nabright
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1573
Joined: Tue Apr 16, 2013 11:33 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby nabright » Thu Jul 06, 2017 7:03 am

FFFAN wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:12 am Howard is extremely overrated. He survived because he played on a dominant Alabama team that constantly had big leads which lead to great play action opportunities. If you watch his highlight package you'll see many of his grabs come against helpless linebackers who pinched up expecting a run due to their team being behind by 30+.

Engram is easily the best pass catching TE in this class and if you watch his film you'll realize the nightmare he'll present to defenses.

1 . Engram
2. Njoku
3. Everett
4. kittle
5. Howard

When you factor in draft pedigree
1 . Engram
2. Njoku
3. Howard
4. Everett
5. Kittle
You can't be serious. Howard behind Everett and Kittle? I guess the NFL scouts have no idea what they are doing. How OJ got his yards at Bama is irrelevant. If you watched Alabama play, you'd know that he was severely underused. They were terrible at designing plays to get him the ball. He still showed good route-running ability when he was out there. He is going to be a matchup nightmare in the NFL. He is 6'6, ran a 4.5, and is a big TE. Not to mention he was graded as the best run-blocker in the draft class. I can understand wanting Engram over Howard because of his college production and obvious pass-catching ability. However, I think he will take the longest to get the targets needed to be fantasy relevant. He is behind OBJ, Marshall, and Shepard. With him not being able to block, he is going to get limited touches in his first year. Howard will be out there starting from day one.
Team 1
12tm, Super-flex, 1PPR, start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/OP
QB: ARod, Wilson, Goff, Winston, Taysom Hill
RB: Cook, Mack, Barber, L. Murray, Ito Smith, Bibbs
WR: ARob, Kupp, Miller(Chi), Agholar, Doctson, Grant, Gordon Z. Jones, Quinn(Wsh), Wilson(Mia)
TE: Reed, Ebron, Andrews, V. Davis, Gates, Herndon
Team 2
12tm, Super-flex, 1PPR, start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/FLEX/OP
QB: Luck, Tanny, Goff
RB: Henry, Drake
WR: Nuk, ARob, Cooper, JuJu, Shepard, Hurns, Lockett, Stewart, Kupp
TE: Doyle, Allen, Clay
Team 3
14tm Super-flex, 1.5PPR and 1.5pts per 10yds for TEs, 1PPR for WRs, .5ppr and .25ppc for RBs. start QB/RB/RB/WR/WR/TE/FLEX/FLEX/OP
QB: Luck, Goff, Jones
RB: Henry, Ekeler, Howard, Hines, Kelley, McKinnon, Samuels
WR: Cooks, Ridley, Ross, Callaway, Moncreif, MWilliams, Enunwa, Kupp, Golladay, Kearse, Reynolds
TE: Howard, Hurst

REPTAR
Captain
Captain
Posts: 844
Joined: Fri Jul 20, 2012 9:41 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby REPTAR » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:43 am

I think Howard is going to tear it up in the NFL, and he will be on the field a lot, and he will be involved in the passing game. Jameis loves the TE - OJ could not have landed in a better spot IMO. Yes Brate is there and they like Brate and Brate will play, but I don't think it will be too long until Brate becomes the afterthought to Howard. Love Howard IRL and in FF.

Anyway, after the big 3 1st rd TEs, I really like Shaheen and was happy to take him in the late 3rd of my draft. I think he could develop into a high caliber TE if he gets blocking down. He's shown to be a solid receiver, gotten good reviews from the coaching staff thus far (in shorts I know) and sneaky athletic for a man as big as he is. I also find Kittle to be an interesting prospect I'd be looking to grab late in the draft.

User avatar
btv802
All Pro
All Pro
Posts: 1577
Joined: Tue Sep 10, 2013 12:27 pm
Location: Vermont

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby btv802 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 9:50 am

Engram looks amazing on paper, combine numbers were crazy elite, there is no doubt about that. The thing that scares me off Engram is how rare it is for his "type" of tight end to succeed in the NFL. Maybe the Jordan Reed archetype is a new thing we need to pay more attention to but I still lean towards taking the bigger bodied guys who actually played tight end in college and have a better shot at staying on the field in the pros. For me it's Howard, Njoku & Engram in that order.

To the OP who is worried about Njoku running the "slowest 40". Njoku is still REALLY fast for a tight end. I think the real answer is all three of these guys are kind of freakish athletes in different ways, I wouldn't nitpick it too much.
GREEN MOUNTAIN BOYS
12 Teams - 24 Active - 4 IR - 4 Taxi - 1pt PPR, 6pt Pass TDs, No INTs - 1QB, 2RB, 3WR, 1TE, 2FLX
QB: R. Wilson, T. Brady, K. Cousins
RB: M. Gordon, D. Cook, T. Coleman, J. McKinnon, I. Smith
WR: B. Cooks, J. Jones, A.J. Green, S. Watkins, M. Williams, M. Valdes-Scantling, J. Ross, M. Lee, T. Taylor, P. Richardson
TE: T. Kelce, D. Njoku, J. Smith
TAXI: B. Snell, M. Weber, K. Warring
2021: 3rd, 3rd, 4th

User avatar
jcc6fd
Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame
Posts: 4973
Joined: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:26 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby jcc6fd » Thu Jul 06, 2017 10:17 am

To maybe get some objective measurements of the 3 top TEs athleticism I've pasted their respective playerprofiler links below:
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/oj-howard/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/david-njoku/
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/evan-engram/

Engram has the best 40 and weight/height adjusted speed score despite being smaller and lighter than the other two (he's so fast). Njoku, while still having good speed is a decent bit slower (with a decent dip in speed score) compared to Howard and Engram.

Njoku blows the other two out of the water when it comes to burst score (generally related to how quickly a player can get up to top speed), with Engram having a good score and Howards being pretty poor actually.

Howard takes the crown in agility score (direction changing) with an elite score while Engrams is great and Njoku's is good.

Njoku and Engram have similarly great catch radius' with Howard not being far behind.

Engram and Howard have the better Sparq scores with Njoku not far behind.

Overall it looks like Njoku only really out measures the other two in burst while Engram is consistently the metrics darling here. If that equates to "athleticism" then Engram probably takes the crown. Obviously so many other factors go into who will succeed and be the most productive.
10 Team Half PPR Scoring SF
QB: Mahomes, Hurts, Minshew
RB: Kamara, K. Hunt, Warren, Bigsby, D. Cook, Jamaal Williams, J. Wilson, McLaughlin, McKinnon, J. Kelley
WR: A.J. Brown, Diggs, K. Allen, C. Watson, Cooks, Pickens, W. Robinson
TE: Kelce, J. Smith, Musgrave

ericanadian
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6519
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby ericanadian » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:14 pm

Tsunami wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:32 am
Pac_Eddy wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:59 am
Tsunami wrote: Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:25 pm If I was in the NFL I would definitely want Howard. He's bigger and stronger and a better blocker. But if I'm playing fantasy football, offense is all that we get points for. So I want the most receiver-like TE that stays in the game. Howard is likely to play a lot, but not necessarily to be involved in the offense all that much. If Evan Engram can block well enough to stay on the field, he is definitely the best offensive option.
So the Bucs used the #19 pick on a solid blocker who won't necessarily be involved in the offense all that much?

Yikes.
The Redskins used the #17 pick on a solid blocker who won't be involved in the offense.
Jonathan Allen? Who are you referring to?
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker

Unicorn92
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 369
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 6:37 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby Unicorn92 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 2:54 pm

I am high on jonnu smith and everett
I play in an idp dynasty keeper league 10 teams with 1 qb start in a ppr league 2 en 2 wr 1te 1 flex. This is a roster of 35 players and a ts of 5 players in mfl and this is a ppr league

Roster

QB: D. Jones, B. Mayfield
RB: S.Barkley, M.Breida, T. Cohen D.Johnson, J. Williams, B. Scarborough
WR: B.Cooks, C.Goodwin, K. Allen, T.Lockett, C. Kirk, M. Williams, D. Westbrook, A. Miller
TE: C. Herndon, R. Griffin, I. Thomas
K C.Boswell
DL M. Davenport, F. Clark, S. Hubbard,
LB M. D. Jones, L. Vander Esch, R. Evans, M. Milano, H. Landry, J. Baker
DB: B.Baker, J. Bates, J. Peppers

Practice squad: P. Williams, T. Rapp, C. Ferrell, E. Oliver, B. Cashman

scottas6870
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 114
Joined: Thu May 25, 2017 7:02 am

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby scottas6870 » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:27 pm

I like Njoku the best. Look at Tampa RB touches. I think 1 or 2 in the NFL under Dirk. Part of the reason TB loved Howard is because he was rated the best blocker of the bunch on top of being a silly good pass catching TE. I like that Cleveland cut Barnidge to make room for Njoku. He will get plenty of looks early and often. Winston loves his TE and is most efficient when he does but still love the opportunity Njoku will have with that offense sooner than Howard. Let's say both are physical freaks yea Howard may be a little faster and have a little better lateral movement but this is about opportunities and touches and I think Njoku will have more both early and later in his career.

ericanadian
Legend
Legend
Posts: 6519
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:13 pm

Re: Most Athletic Rookie TE

Postby ericanadian » Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:37 pm

scottas6870 wrote: Thu Jul 06, 2017 3:27 pm I like Njoku the best. Look at Tampa RB touches. I think 1 or 2 in the NFL under Dirk. Part of the reason TB loved Howard is because he was rated the best blocker of the bunch on top of being a silly good pass catching TE. I like that Cleveland cut Barnidge to make room for Njoku. He will get plenty of looks early and often. Winston loves his TE and is most efficient when he does but still love the opportunity Njoku will have with that offense sooner than Howard. Let's say both are physical freaks yea Howard may be a little faster and have a little better lateral movement but this is about opportunities and touches and I think Njoku will have more both early and later in his career.
Barnidge got cut because he didn't fit with the team's run-heavy preference. I suspect DeValve will be the guy they lean on in 2017 and Njoku will be eased into a role. I wouldn't bank on heavy usage of Njoku early on.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)

QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: brward, Google [Bot], Hottoddies, jbatta44, Mike11, repkllrs, wickerkat1212 and 124 guests