Is it getting harder to trade these days?

[skip]

Yes Skip, we are not allowed to trade OTC during the start ups or rookie drafts. Masters Fantasy Leagues, which I believe uses the same website/software as MFL, but basically gets a group of strangers together and the site owners act as a non-biased commissioner and cannot participate in the league.

Ok, so for clarification then we are not talking about MFL. I was just a little confused because I've been on MFL for 10+ years now and never been prevented from trading while OTC.

Maybe a dumb question as I had assumed a couple years ago that MFL=Master Fantasy Leagues when talked about on here and I know some posters who are in leagues with me on there. But MFL actually= My Fantasy Leagues, which uses the same platform, correct? It looks the exact same as the leagues I am in, literally. So is the website owned by the same dudes?

I am not familiar with "Master Fantasy Leagues" so I have no idea.

[austing]

I have the same problem with ~5 of the 12 owners in my main league. They vehemently scoff at decent offers and counter with trolling type offers it seems. I feel like, despite not being newbies, they might not be as aware of dynasty values and current trends and this leads to them to feeling swindled even in a mutually beneficial (or trade that favors them) trade because of this lack of knowledge. In fact the only trades they seem to offer/make favor their team so heavily that it also seems like this is the only type they can be sure they are coming out ahead in. Or maybe they are just aholes who knows..

[derekhiny]

The most practical answer has already been given a few times. For the most part, no one wants to make a "fair" deal. Someone always wants to rip the other person's head off, and if they can't, then the offer is "not close". As much as I love these forums, we help egg this on. All the time, I see people's trade advice posts answered with something like "well, even tho it's a fair offer, you should get more since he came to you". Hell, I've probably even been guilty of giving this response at times myself. Because it's the thing to do. When actually, the response should be "that's a pretty fair offer. It helps you both. Accept it".

Digging deeper, a few other issues I see contributing. I remember reading an article a few weeks ago (maybe on this site?) about the seismic shift over the last 5 years or so towards "youth is all that matters" in dynasty football. The premise was correct, and we see it all the time. The very solid veteran in the middle prime of his career almost becomes worthless. When a RB hits 27, he's done. When a WR hits 28, people act like he's about ready to die, no matter how elite he has been for multiple seasons in a row, and many great years still left. With that, thanks in large part to the 2014 class, all people care about are acquiring as many 1sts as possible, and every 1st round rookie is bound to become a superstar WR1. So knowing this, I try to capitalize by constantly finding value. Sending my middle/late 1sts for drastically undervalued vets. Undervalued simply because they are a RB on the wrong side of 26, or a WR on the wrong side of 27. Keeping my team in constant contention, while others stay in a semi-constant state of rebuild because they have to have the shiny new toy. A toy that basically has a 50% bust rate altogether, with a good chunk of the remaining percentage allocated towards that player never becoming anything more than a backend starter/flex play. I have a team (not in sig) that has made the playoffs 7 straight years, with 3 'ships, 1 runner up, and 2 3rd place finishes. I haven't made an actual 1st round draft selection in this league for 5 years. No need to, when I can trade them away to everyone chasing youth that will in all likelihood never be as good as the person who they just traded away.

The final thing, and sorry for being so long winded, is that along with the extreme youth movement, all people care about are WRs. Pick any RB and WR who are right next to each other in ADP/rankings/whatever and try to trade the RB for the WR. You'll get laughed at. "But, but, but ... my guy is a WR! He's worth 10 times more than a RB!" I get it. Longer shelf life, less penchant for injury, blah blah blah. But RB's are what win the championships. The weekly point advantage a great RB gives you over your opponent is most likely so much more than what a WR will against that same opponent. Everyone, especially when you reach the fantasy playoffs, has good WRs at this point. There's just so many of them, and the talent pool is deep. With over half of the NFL teams using 3 wide sets as their base offense, as well as throwing the ball 60+ percent of the time, it's easy to field a quality WR core. Eventually, the whole supply and demand thing will have to catch up as it relates to WR and RB values, making it easier to make these types of trades. Just hasn't happened yet.

Again, sorry for being so long winded, and thanks for reading my semi-rant.

[Novacane]

The most practical answer has already been given a few times. For the most part, no one wants to make a "fair" deal. Someone always wants to rip the other person's head off, and if they can't, then the offer is "not close". As much as I love these forums, we help egg this on. All the time, I see people's trade advice posts answered with something like "well, even tho it's a fair offer, you should get more since he came to you". Hell, I've probably even been guilty of giving this response at times myself. Because it's the thing to do. When actually, the response should be "that's a pretty fair offer. It helps you both. Accept it".

Digging deeper, a few other issues I see contributing. I remember reading an article a few weeks ago (maybe on this site?) about the seismic shift over the last 5 years or so towards "youth is all that matters" in dynasty football. The premise was correct, and we see it all the time. The very solid veteran in the middle prime of his career almost becomes worthless. When a RB hits 27, he's done. When a WR hits 28, people act like he's about ready to die, no matter how elite he has been for multiple seasons in a row, and many great years still left. With that, thanks in large part to the 2014 class, all people care about are acquiring as many 1sts as possible, and every 1st round rookie is bound to become a superstar WR1. So knowing this, I try to capitalize by constantly finding value. Sending my middle/late 1sts for drastically undervalued vets. Undervalued simply because they are a RB on the wrong side of 26, or a WR on the wrong side of 27. Keeping my team in constant contention, while others stay in a semi-constant state of rebuild because they have to have the shiny new toy. A toy that basically has a 50% bust rate altogether, with a good chunk of the remaining percentage allocated towards that player never becoming anything more than a backend starter/flex play. I have a team (not in sig) that has made the playoffs 7 straight years, with 3 'ships, 1 runner up, and 2 3rd place finishes. I haven't made an actual 1st round draft selection in this league for 5 years. No need to, when I can trade them away to everyone chasing youth that will in all likelihood never be as good as the person who they just traded away.

The final thing, and sorry for being so long winded, is that along with the extreme youth movement, all people care about are WRs. Pick any RB and WR who are right next to each other in ADP/rankings/whatever and try to trade the RB for the WR. You'll get laughed at. "But, but, but ... my guy is a WR! He's worth 10 times more than a RB!" I get it. Longer shelf life, less penchant for injury, blah blah blah. But RB's are what win the championships. The weekly point advantage a great RB gives you over your opponent is most likely so much more than what a WR will against that same opponent. Everyone, especially when you reach the fantasy playoffs, has good WRs at this point. There's just so many of them, and the talent pool is deep. With over half of the NFL teams using 3 wide sets as their base offense, as well as throwing the ball 60+ percent of the time, it's easy to field a quality WR core. Eventually, the whole supply and demand thing will have to catch up as it relates to WR and RB values, making it easier to make these types of trades. Just hasn't happened yet.

Again, sorry for being so long winded, and thanks for reading my semi-rant.

This is a great post. Don't be sorry.

[IR1]

Owners are getting smarter and more familiarized with dynasty. If you're used to "winning" your trades, it might not be as easy and will have to settle for even trades.

This is the problem as I see it. Owners are too concerned with "winning" trades rather than looking to improve their team through mutually-beneficial deals.

X2, ideally a trade should be win/win

[onetwothree]

Do you want to share examples of offers you received that you don't think are fair? Do you want to share your counter offers? Or do you want to share offers you've initiated?

As others have stated, lots of complaints by folks starting these threads about lack of trades but rarely does anyone ever share examples of these bad offers they keep getting or what they've done to help the situation. And oftentimes they don't reply again in the thread.

As for why a team doesn't want to make deals, after taking time to build your team, it's tough to let go of that steal you drafted with a late pick or that FA pickup you nailed before the breakout. Just human nature. As much as this is fantasy and what you do doesn't really impact the player, it's still fun to "believe" in your guy.

If you want to increase trade activity, initiate the offers yourself. Look at rosters and see who's rebuilding and who is contending and see how your rosters line up and if you could offer a rebuilding piece that nets you an immediate impact guy or vice versa.

My league isn't super active but the trend have been that a new owner coming in will immediately be open for business to shape his team a certain way and then make less trades. Also owners who know they are entering a rebuild have typically made more deals.

I think a more accurate measure of a "bad" league is waiver activity. If the bottom teams are not making any moves and consistently letting the contending teams continue to add quality pieces, that's when you question if the league is still viable.

[clarion contrarion]

One reason it could be harder to trade is YOU the OP ! the more time you spend here the more educated you get in terms of dynasty values and the way people think and view prospects . This site is a bit of an echo chamber although their are a some people who see things differently , I spend little to no time at other dynasty sites as I can get all I need here but other sites if I remember correctly from past experiences look at things a bit differently .
If you expect other owners to value the players the same as you, you will be mistaken , perhaps your new knowledge and player values are what lead to less trades . Some owners won't say yes unless its a deal that ray charles could see is a win those owners usually never compete because they cannot draft enough good players to keep up with then active stronger teams in the league.
Other owners look at too long of a window and thus have fallen into the youth trap worrying about how their team will look 4 or 5 years from now and that is absolutely silly in my opinion , in the league I 1st joined - heading into year 8 ,I have won 4 of the last 5 and I have zero players left from 1st title - only 10 left from my 2015 title team and 13 from last season's champ . That team includes frank gore, shady mccoy ( acquired during the successful stretch run last season for hunter henry and a 1st) ,lagarrette blount ,adrian peterson and recently acquired antonio brown. All too old for the youth struck masses but I can mix and match those older backs and get a real rb 1 and rb2 out of them . I do not really worried about rostering older players , this league has multiple rebuilding teams with no one over age 26 they want to win in 2019 I suppose but my take is to win every year.As such I take a bit of a redraft approach. Some people crave that new draft class every year but I look for the veteran draft class every year of guys that have perceived to have aged out of real dynasty viability , my shiny new toys every year are antonio brown pierre garcon jimmy graham or jordy nelson and the awesome 2018 AARP draft class of gronk julio jones and aj green there is a rusty old class every year that will lead you to a title just be judicious and reap the rewards .
Too many people approach dynasty as a marathon , I approach it as a series of sprints - my way works very nicely in an environment of chronic youthers .

[koalabear]

Twitter polls play a part too. You can easily get quick feedback on a trade offer and some people may not trade based on the poll results even if indicates a balanced trade.

Cos having to 'win' the trade by a margin seems to be the prevailing thought.

[dlf_jules]

Yes Skip, we are not allowed to trade OTC during the start ups or rookie drafts. Masters Fantasy Leagues, which I believe uses the same website/software as MFL, but basically gets a group of strangers together and the site owners act as a non-biased commissioner and cannot participate in the league.

Ok, so for clarification then we are not talking about MFL. I was just a little confused because I've been on MFL for 10+ years now and never been prevented from trading while OTC.

Maybe a dumb question as I had assumed a couple years ago that MFL=Master Fantasy Leagues when talked about on here and I know some posters who are in leagues with me on there. But MFL actually= My Fantasy Leagues, which uses the same platform, correct? It looks the exact same as the leagues I am in, literally. So is the website owned by the same dudes?

Myfantasyleague.com is just a website that hosts fantasy leagues (redraft and dynasty). Masters Fantasy Leagues is a commissioner service that--like most other commissioner services--runs its leagues on Myfantasyleague.com. Not owned by the same dudes.

When you see MFL on here, most people are referring to Myfantasyleague.com.

[bigchiefbc]

The most practical answer has already been given a few times. For the most part, no one wants to make a "fair" deal. Someone always wants to rip the other person's head off, and if they can't, then the offer is "not close". As much as I love these forums, we help egg this on. All the time, I see people's trade advice posts answered with something like "well, even tho it's a fair offer, you should get more since he came to you". Hell, I've probably even been guilty of giving this response at times myself. Because it's the thing to do. When actually, the response should be "that's a pretty fair offer. It helps you both. Accept it".

Yes, and this place does indeed contribute to it. On the advice/evaluation threads, I constantly see people say things like "see if you can get him to throw in an extra 2nd" or wanting a mid-1st for someone they'd only pay a 2nd for. If the trade is fair, why are you trying to squeeze him for more? Do you really have to make sure you "win" the trade on paper? I've had trades break down over this before. We're 90% of the way to a deal, we both seem to agree the trade is even, and then they try to squeeze more out of me. You know what, I hate that crap. Make a fair deal, win/win, and be done with it. Stop trying to squeeze every last drop out of people.

[IR1]

The most practical answer has already been given a few times. For the most part, no one wants to make a "fair" deal. Someone always wants to rip the other person's head off, and if they can't, then the offer is "not close". As much as I love these forums, we help egg this on. All the time, I see people's trade advice posts answered with something like "well, even tho it's a fair offer, you should get more since he came to you". Hell, I've probably even been guilty of giving this response at times myself. Because it's the thing to do. When actually, the response should be "that's a pretty fair offer. It helps you both. Accept it".

Yes, and this place does indeed contribute to it. On the advice/evaluation threads, I constantly see people say things like "see if you can get him to throw in an extra 2nd" or wanting a mid-1st for someone they'd only pay a 2nd for. If the trade is fair, why are you trying to squeeze him for more? Do you really have to make sure you "win" the trade on paper? I've had trades break down over this before. We're 90% of the way to a deal, we both seem to agree the trade is even, and then they try to squeeze more out of me. You know what, I hate that crap. Make a fair deal, win/win, and be done with it. Stop trying to squeeze every last drop out of people.

I think there is a fair amount of 'good deal for your team' comments. There are also plenty of 'make him pay' comments, which I think is appropriate when someone is coming to you for a player you really don't want to move- what's the incentive?

In one of my leagues, 'junk' offers seem to be the normal, but I really think there is such a wide variation in value that the owners think they are offering close offers. It's idp and the scoring almost favors the defensive players.

Back to the original post, I agree that mostly people want to win trades all the time. It's nice, but if it helps my team, even if it's a slight overpay, I'll make a trade that helps my team, be it acquiring a certain player or acquiring value.

[Balzac]

One mans junk is another mans treasure. People are going to value players differently no matter what. Hell some people are just terrible negotiators. I don't see the point in getting upset with someone because they wont do exactly what you expect/want them to do. Don't forget that there is a real life person on the other end of deals and they have the right to think how ever they want.

[IR1]

One mans junk is another mans treasure. People are going to value players differently no matter what. Hell some people are just terrible negotiators. I don't see the point in getting upset with someone because they wont do exactly what you expect/want them to do. Don't forget that there is a real life person on the other end of deals and they have the right to think how ever they want.

Good point, I find I have an easier time negotiating with friends rather than someone I don't know, maybe there is less of a "win" attitude

[btv802]

After a failed experiment with my first ever dynasty league via dispersal last year which turned out to be a joke of a league..my buddy (who plays in like 10-12 different leagues) got me into a startup with a bunch of his favorite and most active owners from the various leagues he plays in. So in theory it's a competitive & active bunch of dudes and the expectation on my part was that this would lead to a lot of trading, wheeling & dealing.

It's actually been the opposite. These guys boast about the great deals they make in other leagues they play in, but overall this league is pretty stagnant in terms of trade activity. You've got a bunch of hyper competitive "sharks" who built the teams they want with players they like in the startup and are pretty content to sit on their studs & vets and let the cards fall when the games start to matter. The majority of them lean towards relatively balanced or heavy "win now" rosters.

This has actually been good for me as I am a FILTHY youth chaser. While these guys have been struggling to trade with each other, I've been able to get deals done with over half the members of my league mostly focusing on acquiring unproven prospects and future picks. It's been a bit of an arms race for these guys and many have been willing to deal away their future to try and win early. I've benefitted from this nicely.

Just some thoughts on this topic...Like many have already mentioned, I think playing in competitive leagues naturally leads to less trading. But even in super competitive leagues there are still sometimes angles to exploit if you are willing to swim with the current instead of fighting against it. For me I've been lucky because it's been less of a strategic decision and more of a "I like building through youth" thing. But something to consider if you find yourself struggling to get deals done in a competitive league, maybe try a change of tactic and your results will change.

[James McGhee]

After a failed experiment with my first ever dynasty league via dispersal last year which turned out to be a joke of a league..my buddy (who plays in like 10-12 different leagues) got me into a startup with a bunch of his favorite and most active owners from the various leagues he plays in. So in theory it's a competitive & active bunch of dudes and the expectation on my part was that this would lead to a lot of trading, wheeling & dealing.

It's actually been the opposite. These guys boast about the great deals they make in other leagues they play in, but overall this league is pretty stagnant in terms of trade activity. You've got a bunch of hyper competitive "sharks" who built the teams they want with players they like in the startup and are pretty content to sit on their studs & vets and let the cards fall when the games start to matter. The majority of them lean towards relatively balanced or heavy "win now" rosters.

This has actually been good for me as I am a FILTHY youth chaser. While these guys have been struggling to trade with each other, I've been able to get deals done with over half the members of my league mostly focusing on acquiring unproven prospects and future picks. It's been a bit of an arms race for these guys and many have been willing to deal away their future to try and win early. I've benefitted from this nicely.

Just some thoughts on this topic...Like many have already mentioned, I think playing in competitive leagues naturally leads to less trading. But even in super competitive leagues there are still sometimes angles to exploit if you are willing to swim with the current instead of fighting against it. For me I've been lucky because it's been less of a strategic decision and more of a "I like building through youth" thing. But something to consider if you find yourself struggling to get deals done in a competitive league, maybe try a change of tactic and your results will change.

Trading just to be active isn't necessarily benefitting though. Ultimately what makes for a successful dynasty experience is winning...not just trading.