ASJ: Restart the hype train??

[_yeti]

Got him as a toss-in in a pick swap recently. I think he's as good or better dart throw than any rookie TE after the big 3 this year with the recent updates. There's opportunity and talent here and the price is cheap.

I would take Everett, Shaheen, and probably Jonnu Smith over him, but otherwise agree that he is worth a shot as much as any of the next guys.

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem and was still picked up immediately after being cut due to breaking the law and is the shoe-in to be an NFL starter is worth the 7th rookie TE from 2017 who was drafted in the 4th round or below huh. Ok

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

None of the guys I mentioned were picked in the 4th.

[ninotoreS]

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem

I assume you're including college? The only 'huge' game he's had as a pro was Week 1, 2015. But he also only had two 100+ yard games during college. Granted, it's harder for college TEs to put up big yardage stats. ASJ was pretty reliable as a red-zone target. Of course, 6'6" 260lbs college TEs really have no excuse not to be effective in the red-zone.

ASJ did have a DUI in college, but NFL front-offices vetted him and didn't determine he was actually an alcoholic.

I suspect ASJ and those representing him have played up the 'substance abuse' angle now because it's an easy means to spin him as a sort of victim. But not everyone who drinks and drives is a legitimate addict. Often, they're simply irresponsible jackasses, and that's all there really is to it. Their DUIs are less an indication of addiction than it is a demonstration of their intrinsically selfish, destructive personalities.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

And yeah, 3 guys taken in the same round or 1 round later who haven't pissed off their coaches and gotten cut and suspended are worth more than the guy who did do those things (although Smith is more of a toss-up like I said). I like ASJ fine as a dart throw, but I think you are off base if you are taking him over current high 2nd round NFL picks with a clean slate like Everett and Shaheen.

[clarion contrarion]

even if you add him , remember he is in a contract year and regardless of his stats this year when paid I would assume he reverts to previous habits . Many a player shines in a contract year and then reverts to previous form once the check clears . He is a 1 year rental which is fine but he would be a rapid off load if his value rises in any format except redraft. Even then the jets will be ungood and all their players are pretty low on my wish lists even for cheap.Once mccown gets injured the jets will look horrific on offense so if he has a couple good games after the suspension ends I would be ready to move him quickly.
sort of on topic
2 things I really like to do
1) buy guys heading into contract years .
2) sell guys that get paid well after they have an 1 year uptick in production prior to getting paid.

[_yeti]

I would take Everett, Shaheen, and probably Jonnu Smith over him, but otherwise agree that he is worth a shot as much as any of the next guys.

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem and was still picked up immediately after being cut due to breaking the law and is the shoe-in to be an NFL starter is worth the 7th rookie TE from 2017 who was drafted in the 4th round or below huh. Ok

None of the guys I mentioned were picked in the 4th.

I was just responding to your point saying he is worth as much of a shot as the TEs after them.

Which is one at the end of the 4th, a handful of 5ths, etc. I just think that even with his negatives he has a lot more going for him and a much higher chance of NFL success than those guys is all. That's the point I was trying to make. I think he has more going for him than just to be tossed in as just a whatever ranking of as much of a shot as taking a flier on the 7th or later TE in 2017. I just think when you get down there the odds that we will ever see someone starting are pretty low.

I know it's rookie fever time and we like Hodges and Butt and even the 4th-6th of this class and all but I think winning the Mackey, being a high 2nd, his physical capability, even his very small flash in the league was still in the NFL is a lot. Most TEs drafted in any year, almost all will never have a single game like that. And a team is still willing to give him the keys after his screwups. I was just saying that should count for something. No way would I take him anywhere near the top 3 and I could see why a risk-averse person may want to gamble on the next 3 over him but they are roughly the same imo rather than the 7th or later.

[_yeti]

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem

I assume you're including college? The only 'huge' game he's had as a pro was Week 1, 2015. But he also only had two 100+ yard games during college. Granted, it's harder for college TEs to put up big yardage stats. ASJ was pretty reliable as a red-zone target. Of course, 6'6" 260lbs college TEs really have no excuse not to be effective in the red-zone.

ASJ did have a DUI in college, but NFL front-offices vetted him and didn't determine he was actually an alcoholic.

I suspect ASJ and those representing him have played up the 'substance abuse' angle now because it's an easy means to spin him as a sort of victim. But not everyone who drinks and drives is a legitimate addict. Often, they're simply irresponsible jackasses, and that's all there really is to it. Their DUIs are less an indication of addiction than it is a demonstration of their intrinsically selfish, destructive personalities.

Yeah I was including college. And I think it is legit that he is saying for a long time he didn't want to admit he was an addict. He wanted people to think they were regular DUIs that weren't indicative of a bigger problem. I think admitting he has a problem and attending rehab as long as he did is key. I think guys will go to rehab for a weekend as a cover-up to spin bad news to a better place. I think rehab for that long shows commitment to both acknowledging and fixing the problem. I don't think anything I have seen has made him look like a victim at all. Rather, I think it is just news that he has righted himself on the path. If it's just spin for good PR, that's a lot of rehab for PR's sake.

It's hard to "determine" someone who drinks in college has a drinking problem, because everyone drinks in college. I think he was able to still dominate while drinking too much in college. In the pros he couldn't do both and that seems to have increased the problem as he looked like he was more committed to drinking than football.

If he slips again, I'll be right next to you. Just until then I am willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for the price of almost free or free in many leagues.

[Space Cowboy]

He has some Tony Gonzalez in him. The situation, well come week 3 lol will be a golden one.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

I would take Everett, Shaheen, and probably Jonnu Smith over him, but otherwise agree that he is worth a shot as much as any of the next guys.

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem and was still picked up immediately after being cut due to breaking the law and is the shoe-in to be an NFL starter is worth the 7th rookie TE from 2017 who was drafted in the 4th round or below huh. Ok

None of the guys I mentioned were picked in the 4th.

I was just responding to your point saying he is worth as much of a shot as the TEs after them.

Which is one at the end of the 4th, a handful of 5ths, etc. I just think that even with his negatives he has a lot more going for him and a much higher chance of NFL success than those guys is all. That's the point I was trying to make. I think he has more going for him than just to be tossed in as just a whatever ranking of as much of a shot as taking a flier on the 7th or later TE in 2017. I just think when you get down there the odds that we will ever see someone starting are pretty low.

I know it's rookie fever time and we like Hodges and Butt and even the 4th-6th of this class and all but I think winning the Mackey, being a high 2nd, his physical capability, even his very small flash in the league was still in the NFL is a lot. Most TEs drafted in any year, almost all will never have a single game like that. And a team is still willing to give him the keys after his screwups. I was just saying that should count for something. No way would I take him anywhere near the top 3 and I could see why a risk-averse person may want to gamble on the next 3 over him but they are roughly the same imo rather than the 7th or later.

I was agreeing with the guy I initially quoted that he was worth more than other TEs in the class, but see why the post was a little confusing. I think we are pretty much in agreement, I just think that Everett and Shaheen offer 95% of the upside with way less risk, and Smith offers probably 80% of the upside with way less risk. So, I have him right about even with Smith.

Butt also won the Mackey, and was probably a 2nd rounder before the injury, so maybe I should move him up by your standards

[Goddard]

So a Mackey Award winner who was a high 2nd round pick and showed he could have huge games even while in the midst of a bad substance abuse problem

I assume you're including college? The only 'huge' game he's had as a pro was Week 1, 2015. But he also only had two 100+ yard games during college. Granted, it's harder for college TEs to put up big yardage stats. ASJ was pretty reliable as a red-zone target. Of course, 6'6" 260lbs college TEs really have no excuse not to be effective in the red-zone.

ASJ did have a DUI in college, but NFL front-offices vetted him and didn't determine he was actually an alcoholic.

I suspect ASJ and those representing him have played up the 'substance abuse' angle now because it's an easy means to spin him as a sort of victim. But not everyone who drinks and drives is a legitimate addict. Often, they're simply irresponsible jackasses, and that's all there really is to it. Their DUIs are less an indication of addiction than it is a demonstration of their intrinsically selfish, destructive personalities.

To be fair, Howard only really had two good games in college as well, but is still being touted as the best TE to come out in forever.

[Cameron Giles]

To be fair, Howard only really had two good games in college as well, but is still being touted as the best TE to come out in forever.

His talent isn't far off from Howard either. I think because of his off-field issues, many forget how talented ASJ is. But ultimately, he's probably just DGB-territory.

[Goddard]

To be fair, Howard only really had two good games in college as well, but is still being touted as the best TE to come out in forever.

His talent isn't far off from Howard either. I think because of his off-field issues, many forget how talented ASJ is. But ultimately, he's probably just DGB-territory.

That may be true, but I think DGB was always a little overrated in terms of his talent/skills.

[_yeti]

To be fair, Howard only really had two good games in college as well, but is still being touted as the best TE to come out in forever.

His talent isn't far off from Howard either. I think because of his off-field issues, many forget how talented ASJ is. But ultimately, he's probably just DGB-territory.

That may be true, but I think DGB was always a little overrated in terms of his talent/skills.

I've pumped up DGB as much as anyone in this forum but I think at the very least ASJ's college career shows a great deal more development and commitment to the game than DGB who is more of a measureable metrics freak and who had much more serious arrests

[_yeti]

I was agreeing with the guy I initially quoted that he was worth more than other TEs in the class, but see why the post was a little confusing. I think we are pretty much in agreement, I just think that Everett and Shaheen offer 95% of the upside with way less risk, and Smith offers probably 80% of the upside with way less risk. So, I have him right about even with Smith.

Butt also won the Mackey, and was probably a 2nd rounder before the injury, so maybe I should move him up by your standards

I read you. I dont think those guys have the same upside imo but I can see all of them being in the same tier.

And about Butt, I mean if you look through the award winners there are a lot of solid NFL TEs. Not all were fantasy relevant but it means something to win it. I know you were being facetious but Butt is really underrated right now, maybe you should move him up

[Ka Boom!]

Just picked ASJ in a startup at 16.06 in a start 2 TE premium (1/2 PPR for RB & WR, 1 PPR for TE) league right after Carlos Henderson and right before Taywan Taylor. Taking a big swing here. Why not?