Am I crazy to think this may be collusion?

[nick.ciccone]

Hey everyone,

Backstory - I am the commish of a 12 man league, we are going into year 3.
25 man rosters with 5 man taxi, standard PPR scoring.

A few weeks back two of our league members made a questionable trade.. Will call them the Eagles and Dolphins for ease of conversation.

Dolphins get this year's 1.01 and 1.09.
Eagles get Amari Cooper and Aaron Rodgers.

I wrote this off as just bad judgement by Team 1 and moved on.

This morning I have another trade between the same two teams sitting in my inbox for review. The Eagles traded 1.02, a 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Dak Prescott, and Kamar Aiken to the Dolphins for 1.01, 1.09, Allen Robinson, Carson Wentz, and Doug Martin. I cringed as I read it because I knew this was going to be an issue with other league members.

The final breakdown after you combine both trades is...

Eagles get: 1.01, 1.09, Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Doug Martin.
Dolphins get: 1.02, 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Dak Prescott, Kamar Aiken.

This wreaks of collusion considering the Dolphins owner was brought into the league by the Eagles owner and the
Eagles owner is the only person who knows him in real life.

How would other commissioners handle this situation?

[skip]

I am pretty sure the 1.01 needs to be removed from the combined trades because it changed hands each way.

The first trade is actually worse than the 2nd one. The 1.01 and 1.02 are basically a wash. Ajayi/2019 1st is probably about right for Robinson. So the rest of the deal is Dak/Aiken for Wentz/Martin and I could see that being pretty fair as well.

[Balzac]

Holy poop dude. Back up. Those trades are not bad at all. Just because you feel you know the future doesn't mean you do. Next week one of those studs could get benched and then how does your value of the trades change? I would instantly quit one of your leagues if you veto'd that first one and for sure if you tried to do it again after we reworked a deal.

Rant over....til next time one of these stupid threads pops up.

[nick.ciccone]

Holy poop dude. Back up. Those trades are not bad at all. Just because you feel you know the future doesn't mean you do. Next week one of those studs could get benched and then how does your value of the trades change? I would instantly quit one of your leagues if you veto'd that first one and for sure if you tried to do it again after we reworked a deal.

Rant over....til next time one of these stupid threads pops up.

Eagles get: 1.09, Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, Aaron Rodgers, Doug Martin.
Dolphins get: 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Kamar Aiken.

Wash the 1.01 and 1.02, can even wash Dak/Wentz and look what this deal is. This is not me feeling like I know the future, this is me looking at a deal and determining that it looks heavily one-sided. If you were an owner in this league and saw this deal go through, would you not question the logic?? I am trying to protect the integrity of our league, not veto a trade just to veto it. Also, this would be a unanimous vote situation between the 9 owners not involved (I stay out of all votes).

[Dynasty DeLorean]

Dolphins get: 1.01 + 1.09.
Eagles get: Amari Cooper and Aaron Rodgers.

Hmm a little light but I can see it.


Dolphins get: 1.02, a 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Dak Prescott, and Kamar Aiken
Eagles get: 1.01, 1.09, Allen Robinson, Carson Wentz, and Doug Martin.


The 1sts are a wash, and maybe Dak/Wentz are a wash. We're left with ARob + Martin for Ajayi + Aiken. I mean, it's within reason depending how you feel about Dak and Ajayi. A lot of people are down on ARob too.

Your final breakdown seems wrong.

[CubfanAA]

The final breakdown after you combine both trades is...

Eagles get: 1.01, 1.09, Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Doug Martin.
Dolphins get: 1.02, 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Dak Prescott, Kamar Aiken.

This is not an accurate breakdown....the Eagles are not getting the 1.01 and 1.09 in the final combined trade. they started with both of these picks. The real combined trade is as follows:

Eagles get: Amari Cooper, Allen Robinson, Aaron Rodgers, Carson Wentz, Doug Martin.
Dolphins get: 1.02, 2019 1st, Jay Ajayi, Dak Prescott, Kamar Aiken.

So essentially it's Cooper for 1.02, Robinson for 2019 1st, Rodgers for Ajayi, Wentz for Dak, and Martin for Aiken....None of those are really that bad.

[Ryantacular]

Nothing wrong here

[btv802]

Just a sidenote that I swapped the 1.01 back and forth with another owner in my league this offseason. Not all that odd for a guy to regret selling something and pay up to get it back.

[onetwothree]

Waiting for that 3rd trade between the 2 teams to drop...

Nothing egregious. I'm sure the other owners would've loved an opportunity to trade for some of those names but unless they made clearly better offers but were declined in favor of these deals, I would be very careful with accusing anyone of collusion.

It's fairly common for the new owner coming in to try and make a few moves to announce his presence. Did you make any offers to this owner? Were offers made by this owner to other teams?

[schiewerma21]

Yea people on these forums hate vetos because they are ignorant.

This is a bad enough situation where I need the sides to explain what's happening.

Amari Cooper is a huge piece. That's what I don't get. Take him out and this could be ok. But yea I feel someone is getting taken advantage of.

And yea the job of the commissioner is to do exactly what you are doing here.... being the leader of the league. It's your job to question stuff like this because this alters the future of the league in a big way and I'm guessing just made that one team a fricking powerhouse.

I once got vetoed in a league over traded gilleslee to the McCoy owner for Charles clay and a 2017 first. Needless to say that commish is a power hungry piece of garbage but the league voted in favor which was absurd to me.

[Goddard]

I think this is a case of one owner taking advantage of another owner who's not very experienced. Not sure I'd call it collusion, but the trades are obviously favored to one side (but not by THAT much).

[ArrylT]

Yeah if you didnt know that one owner was brought into the league by the other - would you have more or less reason for concern?

Has the new owner traded with any other team? Have there been any complaints by any other owners that the new owner has ignored or not responded to trade offers?

I do think that it gives you reason to look more closely at their transactions - its too early to discern a pattern but it is certainly within the realm of possibility that it is a subtle form of collusion.

In the end though, I'd have to concur with the consensus so far and say that neither trade on its own looks that bad.

[StableOfRBs]

Yea people on these forums hate vetos because they are ignorant.

This is a bad enough situation where I need the sides to explain what's happening.

Amari Cooper is a huge piece. That's what I don't get. Take him out and this could be ok. But yea I feel someone is getting taken advantage of.

And yea the job of the commissioner is to do exactly what you are doing here.... being the leader of the league. It's your job to question stuff like this because this alters the future of the league in a big way and I'm guessing just made that one team a fricking powerhouse.

I once got vetoed in a league over traded gilleslee to the McCoy owner for Charles clay and a 2017 first. Needless to say that commish is a power hungry piece of garbage but the league voted in favor which was absurd to me.

Taking advantage of someone is not the same thing as collusion

[nick.ciccone]

Waiting for that 3rd trade between the 2 teams to drop...

Nothing egregious. I'm sure the other owners would've loved an opportunity to trade for some of those names but unless they made clearly better offers but were declined in favor of these deals, I would be very careful with accusing anyone of collusion.

It's fairly common for the new owner coming in to try and make a few moves to announce his presence. Did you make any offers to this owner? Were offers made by this owner to other teams?

The Dolphins owner has been around since the startup, he was invited by the Eagles owner who I know personally. Other members claim to have made "fair" offers to both parties the past couple weeks and been shot down, I have no way to prove if this is true since I can't see transactions until they are agreed on.

I have not made any accusations and don't plan on doing so unless I get some concrete evidence. Was more seeing if this was something most people would question before I start asking questions.

[nick.ciccone]

Yea people on these forums hate vetos because they are ignorant.

This is a bad enough situation where I need the sides to explain what's happening.

Amari Cooper is a huge piece. That's what I don't get. Take him out and this could be ok. But yea I feel someone is getting taken advantage of.

And yea the job of the commissioner is to do exactly what you are doing here.... being the leader of the league. It's your job to question stuff like this because this alters the future of the league in a big way and I'm guessing just made that one team a fricking powerhouse.

I once got vetoed in a league over traded gilleslee to the McCoy owner for Charles clay and a 2017 first. Needless to say that commish is a power hungry piece of garbage but the league voted in favor which was absurd to me.

This is a league altering trade for sure, and that's why it is giving me pause. The Eagles will go from middle of the pack to powerhouse depending on how their draft turns out. Should have a very realistic shot at the title if all goes well.

The Dolphins have been contenders since inception and this will drop them to middle-low end of the pack on paper. Just doesn't seem right that a contender would trade away two young, high end WR's and the QB1 for 1.02 and Ajayi. This takes his starting wideouts from Cooper, Robinson, Stefon Diggs to Diggs, Tyler Boyd, and Tajae Sharpe.