Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
User avatar
dlf_jules
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 9040
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 12:15 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby dlf_jules » Tue May 23, 2017 7:46 am

Concept Coop wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 7:39 am How old is the league, and what are your thoughts so far? How many rounds is the rookie draft, and are free agents included? Sorry for all the questions. This sounds intriguing.
There's a two-round devy draft in February, a four-round rookie draft after the combine, and a three-round free agent draft in August.

Startup was 2015. I won the first season, finished second in 2016, and will start getting my bleep handed to me now that the college prospects are becoming more important. I mainly wanted to see how long I could sustain success until my deficiencies caught up with me.

Here's a link: 3D League
Download the 2019 Cohort Report for free today!

User avatar
Valhalla
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby Valhalla » Tue May 23, 2017 10:15 am

sloth8u wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 6:48 am
DLF3000 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 3:51 pm So after seeing so many one-sided or terrible value trades over the years (the latest of which was Derek Carr for a 2nd and 3rd round rookie pick two months ago - WAIT, WHAT?!), I started to wonder:

Is it even possible to win dynasty with zero trades?

How would you do it - what would you suggest you do, or do a lot more of, since you're not tapping into trading as a resource?

Or is trading so exploitable with some people and/or situations that you can't win dynasty without it?
some just like trading and some cant win without trading.....no trading would ultimately take the fun out of it for the "competitive owner". they wouldnt be able to "have fun" acquiring 1st's or adding the last piece or 2. admit it or not...some just cant stand losing...and they would quit. no trading in a dynasty league would not work because owners this dedicated cant imagine being able to make their team better only once a year. even the successful owners who trade the least, still make a move every now and then.
I more often than not make nice additions off the waiver wire every year...
Last year, common waiver additions to rosters included (off the top of my head and I'm most definitely forgetting guys): Pryor, Tyrell, Thielen, Jacquizz, Montgomery, Dak, Powell.
Looking over an active player's list and thinking about my 12 team 22 man roster league, here's a list of players that I believe have been on waivers at one point or another in their career:
At QB: Roethlisberger, Brady, Eli Manning, Brees, Tyrod, Prescott, Rodgers, Cousins, Wilson
At RB: Powell, West, Jacquizz, Alf Morris, Blount, Ivory, Jennings, Latavius, Burkhead, Woodhead, Kelley, Ware, CJ, Lewis
At WR: ANTONIO BROWN, Hurns, Edelman, Sanders, Crowder, Jordy, Baldwin, Beasley, Rishard, Meredith, Wallace, Inman, Pryor, Snead, Thielen, Hill, Enuwa, Marvin Jones, Anderson, John Brown, Tate, Britt, Landry, Tyrell, LaFell,
I'm not going to bother with TE. I think you get the picture. This is just the rostered players. Every year there are useful waiver plays, like Tim Hightower. There are also plenty of past rostered players I can think of that were waiver claims, like Mike Turner, Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger, Boldin, Foster, Forsett,

These are ALL non-drafted (or at a point dropped) players that were then claimed and useful.

Bottom line: You can STILL BUILD VERY SOLID/DOMINANT TEAMS/DYNASTIES WITHOUT TRADES. I honestly think that active in-season scouting and foresight on the waiver claims is probably more important than rookie draft picks.

User avatar
kamihamster
Captain
Captain
Posts: 887
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:28 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby kamihamster » Tue May 23, 2017 11:25 am

the way to build has always been through the draft, trades, and FA. you eliminate trades and you have the draft... everyone has access to pretty much the same info when it comes to draft so thats a wash. FA would be the major component to building a winner. being dynasty the wire is thin, but the manager that could gather the most useful data in seeing guys worth stashing before everyone else reads some article on it will be the winner.

this is how i win re-draft leagues. they dont trade much (if at all) and im on top of the wire so despite injuries i consitently finish top 3 every year.
NTL (est 2016): (8-0)
12-team, PPR, 1QB,2RB,3WR,1TE,1FLX
QB: A.Rodgers, D.Jones
RB: A.Kamara, K.Johnson, K.Drake, Da.Henderson, C.Anderson, K.Ballage, T.Montgomery, J.Wilson, D.Ogunbowale, Dw.Washington, J.Kelly, P.Perkins, A.Blue
WR: O.Beckham, D.Hopkins, C.Kupp, D.Chark, R.Foster, A.Wilson, J.Reynolds, S.Morgan, B.Pringle, O.Johnson, D.Williams, D.Willis
TE: J.Cook, M.Andrews, A.Shaheen, B.Jarwin
2020 Picks: 3, 4
2021 Picks: 1, 2, 3, 4
2022 Picks: 1, 2, 3, 4

Home League (est 2014): 2018 Champ (6-2)
12-team, NPPR-6ptTD, 1QB,2RB,3WR,1TE,2FLX,1K,1DST,4IDP
QB: P.Mahomes, J.Goff
RB: D.Cook, A.Kamara, J.Mixon, M.Breida, S.Michel, F.Gore, D.Guice, K.Ballage, D.Ogunbowale, R.Bonnafon, J.Scarlett, W.Gallman, J.Kelly, J.Wilson
WR: D.Adams, J.Smith-Schuster, T.Boyd, A.Robinson, L.Fitzgerald, Jo.Brown, M.Valdes-Scantiling, K.Harmon, Z.Pascal
TE: E.Engram, A.Hooper
DST: NOS
K: W.Lutz
2020 Picks: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5
2021 Picks: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5

Weeman
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 328
Joined: Thu Oct 06, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby Weeman » Tue May 23, 2017 12:08 pm

All trades have winners & losers is one theory. Another is the best player in the deal is a win. Or it's fair if team both team needs are met.

Championships are won on stupid trades, we all see it. & many of us here would never lose if it were best draft. But this is another element of luck, skill or art of swindling.

I feel the waiver wire is being severly undervalued in the OP. IF I couldn't trade, I'd still draft the same BPA with more emphasis on WR early. (Despite knowing that playoff teams never get those elite rookie rbs in rookie drafts) I'd want to have strength in WR, particularly cause the position produces better longterm. Next it Depends on your end result team but I always try to balance out upside & instant production players on the wire pickups.

Generally if I drop a guy he gets picked up. I typically need to trade so that I don't lose value for incoming rookies or FA pickups, I want to roster.
Consolidating assets for a great buylow is how I enjoy building my roster up. I feel trading is vital for everyone to maintain the roster they like. If you sour on Watkins sell him. Don't bench or drop him, that's what your proposing would be a better league?? Lol

User avatar
JJDubya
MVP
MVP
Posts: 2566
Joined: Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:04 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby JJDubya » Tue May 23, 2017 4:59 pm

Just because cardboard has calories (it probably doesn't), doesn't mean I'm going to eat it. Trades are fun and an important barometer of a healthy league in my opinion. They encourage interaction which is a big part of enjoying fantasy. I've made some good buds I've never met in person in some of my leagues. A large part of that has to do with trading with one another over the leagues/years. There is an element of skill involved there as well as luck, just as there is scouting/drafting.

If you don't want to trade, just play MFL10s.

User avatar
thebeast
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5645
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2012 6:40 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby thebeast » Tue May 23, 2017 5:07 pm

Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 3:55 pm That's kind of an interesting question. I think it'd be cool to do a dynasty league where trading isn't allowed. Strategy would be much different I assume.
That would be called the first two years of our inaugural dynasty league. Everyone was so scared to trade before we all got the hang of it lol.

sloth8u
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8586
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby sloth8u » Tue May 23, 2017 9:03 pm

thebeast wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 5:07 pm
Dynasty DeLorean wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 3:55 pm That's kind of an interesting question. I think it'd be cool to do a dynasty league where trading isn't allowed. Strategy would be much different I assume.
That would be called the first two years of our inaugural dynasty league. Everyone was so scared to trade before we all got the hang of it lol.
In my experiences the trades slow way down after the first two years. Owners begin to settle in with "their players" and trades are often times like pulling teeth.

zounder
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby zounder » Tue May 23, 2017 11:40 pm

Contrary to what many are saying in this thread, removing trades would -decrease- parity. Trades are one of a few avenues for a team to speed up a rebuild. If you remove that avenue, the process will take longer. For example: There's one guy in my league who rarely trades and simply uses waivers and makes high picks in the draft as his only means of adding players. He's had hits and misses, but he's been in a rebuild for five years and with the 1.1 this year, the end may only just now be in sight.

Also, gonna plug my DLF article here since it's pretty relevant: https://dynastyleaguefootball.com/2017/ ... s-waivers/
-Nick Canzanese
@FF_NickCanz

SteveVolk
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby SteveVolk » Wed May 24, 2017 6:10 am

I just employed a kind of go for broke strategy on a team where I have a very strong starting line-up and almost zero depth. I traded like crazy this offseason, including deals that included my 2018 1, 2 and 3. In terms of sheer optics, it worked. I now have a roster that looks like a contender at the top and a rebuild at the back end, with four rookie backs (Hunt, Conner, Foreman and Aaron Jones), three rookie wide receivers (Corey Davis, Kupp and Carlos Henderson), two rookie linebackers and two rookie tight ends, including Adam Shaheen.
I scored Marcus Mariota and also accumulated a ton of picks for this 2017 draft.
I bring this up here because I have kind of forced myself into a corner where I will be best off, by far, sitting still with this roster till next offseason, at least. I have a lot of rookies to watch develop, and I will be disinclined to trade while these guys sort themselves out. My own take, as soon as I read the header on this subject thread, was that the "zero trade" dynasty strategy seems like something worth employing, from time to time, for a season or two, almost as a way of enforcing patience.
There was one team in this same league that rejected every trade offer I sent him and at one point I checked his transaction history and kept an eye out for any trades he did make. He went almost three full years without making any trades at all, and he earned himself the 1.03 last year in the '16 draft and the 1.02 in this year's draft. But he also started making trades again maybe six months back. His team really seemed to decay there for a while with no trades to keep things moving. —Best, Steve

sloth8u
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8586
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby sloth8u » Wed May 24, 2017 6:51 am

Valhalla wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 10:15 am
sloth8u wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 6:48 am
DLF3000 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 3:51 pm So after seeing so many one-sided or terrible value trades over the years (the latest of which was Derek Carr for a 2nd and 3rd round rookie pick two months ago - WAIT, WHAT?!), I started to wonder:

Is it even possible to win dynasty with zero trades?

How would you do it - what would you suggest you do, or do a lot more of, since you're not tapping into trading as a resource?

Or is trading so exploitable with some people and/or situations that you can't win dynasty without it?
some just like trading and some cant win without trading.....no trading would ultimately take the fun out of it for the "competitive owner". they wouldnt be able to "have fun" acquiring 1st's or adding the last piece or 2. admit it or not...some just cant stand losing...and they would quit. no trading in a dynasty league would not work because owners this dedicated cant imagine being able to make their team better only once a year. even the successful owners who trade the least, still make a move every now and then.
I more often than not make nice additions off the waiver wire every year...
Last year, common waiver additions to rosters included (off the top of my head and I'm most definitely forgetting guys): Pryor, Tyrell, Thielen, Jacquizz, Montgomery, Dak, Powell.
Looking over an active player's list and thinking about my 12 team 22 man roster league, here's a list of players that I believe have been on waivers at one point or another in their career:
At QB: Roethlisberger, Brady, Eli Manning, Brees, Tyrod, Prescott, Rodgers, Cousins, Wilson
At RB: Powell, West, Jacquizz, Alf Morris, Blount, Ivory, Jennings, Latavius, Burkhead, Woodhead, Kelley, Ware, CJ, Lewis
At WR: ANTONIO BROWN, Hurns, Edelman, Sanders, Crowder, Jordy, Baldwin, Beasley, Rishard, Meredith, Wallace, Inman, Pryor, Snead, Thielen, Hill, Enuwa, Marvin Jones, Anderson, John Brown, Tate, Britt, Landry, Tyrell, LaFell,
I'm not going to bother with TE. I think you get the picture. This is just the rostered players. Every year there are useful waiver plays, like Tim Hightower. There are also plenty of past rostered players I can think of that were waiver claims, like Mike Turner, Kurt Warner and Marc Bulger, Boldin, Foster, Forsett,

These are ALL non-drafted (or at a point dropped) players that were then claimed and useful.

Bottom line: You can STILL BUILD VERY SOLID/DOMINANT TEAMS/DYNASTIES WITHOUT TRADES. I honestly think that active in-season scouting and foresight on the waiver claims is probably more important than rookie draft picks.
agree the ww would be key...but even the most active owners cant get everyone (assuming your in a league with active owners aswell). even to that point would be those that stand up and preach to "trade" your waiver claims in most instances. Thomas rawls was golden...or he's just sitting on your roster in a league like this. at no point could you have "gotten rid of him" without dropping.

a leaguemate and I were talking about starting something like this to eliminate whacky trades. the thought was that we cant eliminate crazy trades....but we could force owners to make tough decisions about the trade. simply open trading twice a year. you could trade during the draft, and you could trade for a week at the deadline. everything else would be off waivers. ultimately we decided against it because we thought it may get stale after awhile for some owners and replacing could be difficult if we didn't find a dedicated owner. the thought was to have an early trade deadline to force some hands with the owners sitting middle of the pack out of the gate. the early trade deadline would be the selling point, either your in for the year or your going for picks next year. a fun time to decide would be when the majority of the league is sitting at 3-2 or 2-3.

jeaton6
Captain
Captain
Posts: 978
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 2:56 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby jeaton6 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:24 am

DLF3000 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 3:51 pm So after seeing so many one-sided or terrible value trades over the years (the latest of which was Derek Carr for a 2nd and 3rd round rookie pick two months ago - WAIT, WHAT?!), I started to wonder:

Is it even possible to win dynasty with zero trades?

How would you do it - what would you suggest you do, or do a lot more of, since you're not tapping into trading as a resource?

Or is trading so exploitable with some people and/or situations that you can't win dynasty without it?
Of course it's possible. As a matter of fact all it does is change the likely hood of good traders winning as much. The total number of winners is unchanged.
Team 1 (Sunday Collisions): 12 Team PPR: QB/2 RB/3 WR/TE/Flex 27 Roster
**6 straight championships**
QB: Allen, Watson, Prescott, Purdy, Darnold, Ridder
RB: Taylor, Ekeler, Mixon, Cook, Mattison, Kelley, Blackshear
WR: Adams, Diggs, Devonta Smith, Diontae Johnson, Richie James, Van Jefferson, Landry, Duvernay
TE: Kelce, Ruckert
PK: Bass, Dicker
DEF: Ravens, Jets, Chiefs, Bucs
2023 Picks: 2.5

Team 2 (Shakeweight): 12 Team PPR: QB/2 RB/3 WR/TE/Flex 25 Roster, 3 man rookie taxi

QB: Burrow, Cousins
RB: McCaffrey, Barkley, Jacobs, Gibson, Dillon, Patterson, Mason, Blackshear, Hilliard
WR: Tyreek, Juju, Diontae Johnson, Thielen, Bateman, Claypool, Landry, Corey Davis, Thornton
TE: Kelce, Hockenson, Engram
PK: Gano, Succop
DEF: Jets, Bucs
Taxi: Airton, Likely, Ferguson
2023 Picks: 1.3, 1.5, 1.10, 2,3, 3.10, 4.10, 5.10

outoftowner98
Combine Attendee
Combine Attendee
Posts: 5
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:47 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby outoftowner98 » Tue May 30, 2017 5:49 am

DLF3000 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 7:49 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 7:15 pm I believe this is also referred to as the "Zero Fun Strategy"
Isn't it also zero fun to get destroyed in a trade? Or to watch someone repeatedly destroy others, building a powerhouse?

Just a different format/approach with different challenges.

It would definitely be interesting to see what a zero-trade (read: zero-fleecing) league would be like.

No more swearing at the screen because some abominable trade just went through! :sick:
If we agree trading is fun, and we agree seeing ludicrously one sided trades is unfun (yes that's a word) then surely the answer is to either educate or slowly remove the bad traders who cause the unfun (still a word) rather than to remove the trading?

Sterling Archer
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby Sterling Archer » Tue May 30, 2017 5:55 am

DLF3000 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 7:49 pm
sugbear65 wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 7:15 pm I believe this is also referred to as the "Zero Fun Strategy"
Isn't it also zero fun to get destroyed in a trade? Or to watch someone repeatedly destroy others, building a powerhouse?

Just a different format/approach with different challenges.

It would definitely be interesting to see what a zero-trade (read: zero-fleecing) league would be like.

No more swearing at the screen because some abominable trade just went through! :sick:
I think there are definitely some leagues where you have seriously reduced odds of winning if you don't trade. These are leagues with a few donkeys in them, which are unwitting farm teams for their friends. That's when I find it's better to be in a league with strangers than in a league cobbled together with friends and acquaintances because in those leagues there are always people who tend to trade together before they branch out to other owners. So if you don't have an inside line on the donkeys, you're at a significant disadvantage.

User avatar
Goirish374
Pro Bowler
Pro Bowler
Posts: 1396
Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2013 7:31 am

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby Goirish374 » Wed May 31, 2017 11:24 am

Cameron Giles wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 4:23 pm Most rookie picks will bust. So, you're now tasking someone with hitting on the majority of their picks each year to stay relevant.
Kind of like...the NFL?

Remove the Sashi Browns from the equation and non-draft day trades are, relative to other professional sports, vanishingly rare.
Dynasty League Football Premium League Almanac:
2020 Champ: me again! (no, for reals!)
2019 Champ: me!
2018 Champ: Qazxswedcvfrtgbnhyuj
2017 Champ: Irishdoom
2016 Champ: DDT(wakelawyer)
2015 Champ: BigChiefBC

User avatar
Valhalla
Legend
Legend
Posts: 5360
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2013 4:26 pm

Re: Zero Trade Dynasty Strategy?

Postby Valhalla » Wed May 31, 2017 1:18 pm

Goirish374 wrote: Wed May 31, 2017 11:24 am
Cameron Giles wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 4:23 pm Most rookie picks will bust. So, you're now tasking someone with hitting on the majority of their picks each year to stay relevant.
Kind of like...the NFL?

Remove the Sashi Browns from the equation and non-draft day trades are, relative to other professional sports, vanishingly rare.
Good points


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bronco Billy, Jcedwards, trc and 39 guests