Drafting Pairs or Same Team

General talk about Dynasty Leagues.
User avatar
WhatWouldDitkaDo
GOAT
GOAT
Posts: 14721
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:02 am

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby WhatWouldDitkaDo » Tue May 23, 2017 8:21 am

sloth8u wrote: Tue May 23, 2017 6:18 am
skip wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 8:53 am I'd need to see a study on the idea of a "stack" somehow providing a better overall strategy to the game than some anecdotal notations.

It's not that it can't work... But is it an advisable strategy?
im not a charts type of guy, but i'll try to throw something together when i have the time. who would you like to see. stafford, tate, jones/riddick? smith, kelce, maclin/hill? give me a qb and his top 2 targets and i'll do the work of camparing that stack to some "stud options" and see how that would compare on a weekly basis. rivers, williams, te? bortles, arob, lee?

the stack is common in dfs, and essentially we do play dfs every sunday. if you look in to that concept....you'll find how this "works" if you will. will this work with the worse offense's???? i dont know foresure....but i would be willing to stack any if they are competent.

its not advised in non ppr with the wr's... you simply leave the ppr out....and you can see how this would make a difference. it does make the ppr backs golden though if you were to stack them with the qb. your normal 6 pts for the rb turns into another 4-6 for the qb. the 8 pt play turns into a 15 pt play in a hurry.
Yes, but with a couple of fundamental differences. In DFS, you can change your lineup week to week. In a dynasty or even redraft, you're investing in those players for the season for the most part. Also, depending on what game you're playing in DFS, sometimes you're shooting for high ceiling lineups but with very low floors in tournaments. In head to head, sometimes it's better to sacrifice that ceiling for a high floor to win that matchup.
Kittles Pox | Championships: 2015, 2017
12-Team PPR | QB, 2RB, 2WR, TE, W/R/T, K, DST
QB: Kyler Murray, Aaron Rodgers
RB: Christian McCaffrey, Melvin Gordon, James Conner, Phillip Lindsay, Tevin Coleman, Boston Scott, Benny Snell Jr.
WR: Tyreek Hill, Mike Evans, Cooper Kupp, Michael Gallup, Christian Kirk
TE: George Kittle, Travis Kelce | K: Younghoe Koo | DST: SF
PS: Mecole Hardman, Tony Pollard | 2020 Picks: 1.09, 2.10, 3.03 | 2021 Picks: 1st, 2nd

Go Bucks
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 143
Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:36 am

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby Go Bucks » Tue May 23, 2017 9:26 am

Wouldn't let it be a factor in drafting players. Just go BPA. While stacking is common in daily, it's irrelevant for dynasty where you're competing against only one other team each week.

sloth8u
Degenerate
Degenerate
Posts: 8586
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 1:18 pm

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby sloth8u » Wed May 24, 2017 8:08 am

i'll take a stab at getting to how this works, but 1st you have to realize that we play 1 team on 1 day. basically, your trying to set your floor, while shooting for a huge ceiling. the problem arises.....when you have the "bad day" or 2 throughout the season. just have to hope it isn't in the playoffs.

I mentioned comparing studs earlier...I hadn't realized that I mentioned that...and will certainly do so when I get a chance. but I did compile our regular season "success rate" on the lions from last year. I thought that would be an interesting team to focus on here because of the overall distribution of opportunities throughout the entire team. neither tate or jones were consistent enough to be some sort of "well, he's a stud"...argument against the "stack". without getting into details on the lions offense....the ball was spread around...so if you find an offense that tends to focus on a guy or 2....this is likely to work.

Stafford/tate/jones carr/Matthews/shepard rivers/Edelman/marshall
53 60 37
40 61 59
76 41 26
23 bye (35) 43
44 38 64
72 28 30
49 25 36
32 bye (64) 40
44 37 bye (31)
bye bye (28) bye (35)
17 52 bye
39 31 58
55 (guy out) 35 (guy out) 43

what you'll see here is that most wr 2/3/flex type plays just aren't capeable of producing on the right day as their fantasy quarterback. with the stack....you have that covered. I cant possibly go through every combination of wr's on any given sunday, but assuming all guys involved above are considered wr 2/3/flex......with these combos...the lions stack would have prevailed 5 times. against two other combo's...that's not counting any "studs" or other players that I might have. there is a time or two that I beat 1 of the groups. i'll also add that the stack flubbed at the worse possible time both times last season. both week 4 and 11 were obtainable and they flat out dropped the ball.....with an obtainable 10 win team by "the weekly numbers" (although at random)....i'll take my chances.

the numbers do show me that I need to get to 40 pts between 3 guys including my qb. there are 39 weekly totals posted for qb and 2/3/flex....nearly 1/2 of them are under 40 pts.

now obviously, the better the stack...the better the results. I'm simply stacking two guys in a cluttered offense with their qb. if it were me...id be trying to roster the studs around a stack like this...and the sky is the limit. I know a lot of owners that invested a ton in nuk, arob, etc....id put this stack up against that wr 1 1 combination for 13 weeks....it would be ugly in most instances...especially considering that the goal is to roster studs around the stack.

gabes1919
Rookie
Rookie
Posts: 83
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:42 pm

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby gabes1919 » Wed May 24, 2017 9:09 am

To echo what others have said here, best player available is always the way to go in this situation. If that ends up being a stack, so be it.

If I may add something though, think about it like this. Let's go back to last year at the end of the year and say you have Matt Ryan, Julio Jones, Taylor Gabriel, and Devonta Freeman all on your team. The average person may feel squeemish about playing all those guys at the same time. But if you had 4 separate leagues and in each league you had one of those guys, are you having any reservations about playing them? Probably not. By that logic, you shouldn't feel any reservation about having guys from the same NFL team or playing all of them simultaneously.

The thing about stacking is that it is a high risk/variance move. If the team really shits the bed, so do you. If they light it up, you do too. Matchups really come into play when you stack.
12 Team SF PPR
Start: QRRWWWTFFS
QB: Jackson, Garoppolo, Herbert, Griffin III, Taylor, Mullens
RB: Chubb, Kamara, Washington, Swift
WR: Godwin, Lockett, Boyd, Metcalf, T.Williams, Pascal, Stills, A.Tate, Jeudy
TE: Waller, Griffin, Ebron, Herndon
2021 Picks: 3 1sts, 2 2nds, 3rd, 4th

12 Team SF PPR
Start: QRRWWWTFFS
QB: Wilson, Brissett, Fitzpatrick, Herbert, Tagovailoa, Rivers, Mariota, PJ.Walker
RB: Gurley, Dobbins, Edwards, Hines, Du.Johnson, J.Williams
WR: Thomas, C.Ridley, Boyd, T.Higgins, Pittman, R.Higgins, Pascal, C.Phillips, D.Williams
TE: Higbee, Eifert
2020 done
2021 Picks: 2 1sts, 2 2nds, 4th

14 Team SF PPR
Start: QRRWWWTFFFS
QB: Wilson, Fitzpatrick, Tayor, Griffin III, PJ.Walker
RB: Chubb, Mixon, Ekeler, D.Montgomery, Drake, Burkhead, Collins
WR: Smith-Schuster, Metcalf, Renfrow, Aghelor, Gordon, D.Williams, Taylor, C.Phillips
TE: Higbee, Eifert
No 2020/2021 picks

Sterling Archer
Role Player
Role Player
Posts: 307
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:23 am

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby Sterling Archer » Wed May 24, 2017 1:51 pm

WhatWouldDitkaDo wrote: Mon May 22, 2017 2:32 pm I have no scientific data to support this, but the only stacks I actively target are QB/WR or QB/TE stacks (maybe QB/pass-catching RB would be okay also). My reasoning is that QB passing TD/RB rushing TDs negate each other in that while a truly great offense could support both, the two types of TDs cannibalize the total production from the stack. On the other hand, a Rodgers/Jordy stack or a Brady/Gronk stack nets you double points for any TDs scored by those two players and can therefore put you up in a big way any given week.
I'm the opposite of this. QB/WR combos can be feast or famine if the RB gets all/most of the TDs. If you've got a high powered offense, they're going to score TDs, so my preference is QB/RB. That way you are (almost) guaranteed the scores as long as you've got the goal line back. My goal is to score consistently high points week-to-week, so I like the idea of evening things out. Similarly, I'm not opposed to WR pairs such as Cooper/Crabtree. These pairings reduce total upside, but increase weekly consistency.

SteveVolk
Practice Squad
Practice Squad
Posts: 153
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2016 7:21 pm

Re: Drafting Pairs or Same Team

Postby SteveVolk » Thu May 25, 2017 5:25 am

I've read some of this "stack" analysis and cannot argue against it. I have to fight my own bias, however, as even in my recent rookie draft I was picking at 1.05 and found it very difficult to imagine grabbing Mike Williams to go along with my tight end Hunter Henry. It just "feels" like they will be taking away from each other. I do not mind having a running back and wide receiver combo from the same team, and if the numbers and value are right I LOVE having a quarterback and one of his main targets. But I've always been leery of taking two receivers from the same squad.
Of course, I recognize this is irrational. Would anyone hesitate to start Gronk and Edelman? And I promise myself, heading into every draft, that I will follow the data and not let my own sense of multiple players from the same team dissuade me from going there. In the end, my running back hungry league mates in this particular draft went with ballcarriers and the first four picks, leaving me to select Corey Davis, who I will happily pair with the quarterback I already happened to have on the roster: Marcus Mariota.
Here's hoping that works out.

—Best, Steve


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ahrefs [Bot], Google [Bot], Peener and 31 guests