Thanks. I couldn't see the second one on my phone.Concept Coop wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 2:00 pmCameron Giles wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 1:16 pm If you follow the NBA, Brandon Roy had a similar diagnosis. He was able to produce for about 4 years before his problems prevented him from playing. It's possible for Ajayi to still follow that path.
There was never a diagnosis, to my understanding. There were rumors leading up to he draft, which Jay and his team denied. If you have a source suggesting a Brandon Roy situation--essentially no cartilage--I'd appreciate seeing seeing it.
ETA: No idea what's going on with the formatting. One open quote, one close quote.
Jay Ajayi value
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
Last edited by Concept Coop on Sat May 20, 2017 2:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
Are you referring to Slaton or Tate? I'm not sure what you're getting at with that.Concept Coop wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 11:31 amCan someone remind me who was intended to be the starter over Foster in Houston, orignially? I forgot. (I know that wasn't your point. But it was fun.)ericanadian wrote: ↑Fri May 19, 2017 3:57 amWith Ajayi hurt in Wk1, Foster started the first game and had 87% of the snaps. In Wk2, Foster started and played the first ten snaps before going down with a groin injury at which point Ajayi took over. Foster was intended to be the starter in Miami, not just a passing down back.ninotoreS wrote: ↑Thu May 18, 2017 6:00 pm
Foster was brought in because Ajayi was dropping every pass thrown to him, and Drake was injured all offseason. And so Miami panicked. I'll grant you CJA, but bear in mind Gase and CJA were buddies in Denver, and that had more to do with Gase's pursuit of him than anything else.
But regardless, you're misreading what I said. I talked about the draft. I talked about what actions (or inaction, in this case) plainly infer about Miami's view of Ajayi's knee health. As I said, if it's a time-bomb, Miami would've done more than just give CJA an offer-sheet, sign a dead-legged veteran, draft an RB with a profile and college resume that screams lead-back incapable, play hard-ball with Damien Williams in restricted free-agency, and ignore the RB position completely in this year's draft. Miami has had ample opportunity to draft or sign young, workhorse capable insurance for Ajayi. They haven't. The implication, if we assume Gase and Miami's front-office are competent, is clear.
ETA: Ajayi was the starter at one point in the process, before they turned to Foster. Which is why he was upset.
Ajayi was the starter before they signed Foster and that was only because they failed in their attempts to grab CJA. I don't really get why this is such a contentious argument. The Dolphins were clearly wrong and Ajayi appears to have the lead back spot sewn up at this point.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)
QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker
QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
I almost forgot about Ben Tate. Good times.ericanadian wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 2:20 pm Are you referring to Slaton or Tate? I'm not sure what you're getting at with that.
Ajayi was the starter before they signed Foster and that was only because they failed in their attempts to grab CJA. I don't really get why this is such a contentious argument. The Dolphins were clearly wrong and Ajayi appears to have the lead back spot sewn up at this point.
Foster was signed in the summer and wasn't named the starter until after pre-season. I don't think think it was clear that Foster was brought into supplant Ajayi. Not that it matters (as you also pointed out)--which was my Ben Tate point.
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
Of course Ajayi and his representatives are going to deny it. They were trying to ensure the highest draft position for him and admitting that Ajayi has degenerative knees would ruin that and a future contract.Concept Coop wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 1:25 pm There was never a diagnosis, to my understanding. There were rumors leading up to he draft, which Jay and his team denied. If you have a source suggesting a Brandon Roy situation--essentially no cartilage--I'd appreciate seeing seeing it.
ETA: No idea what's going on with the formatting. One open quote, one close quote.
None of us have a direct source to his medical records. All we can go off is Mike Mayock saying he heard from teams that it was the reason he slid down boards. How else would you explain an RB who was considered a Round 2 talent falling 3 rounds on draft day? Given the timeline of degenerative knees, there's no way it can be dismissed right now.
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
What do you mean by "timeline of degenerative knees"? DX had degenerative knees and it was clear almost immediately that they were a long term problem. Colston also had degenerative knees, but after a couple rough years seemed to have a fairly normal career for someone of his talent level.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 6:06 pmOf course Ajayi and his representatives are going to deny it. They were trying to ensure the highest draft position for him and admitting that Ajayi has degenerative knees would ruin that and a future contract.Concept Coop wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 1:25 pm There was never a diagnosis, to my understanding. There were rumors leading up to he draft, which Jay and his team denied. If you have a source suggesting a Brandon Roy situation--essentially no cartilage--I'd appreciate seeing seeing it.
ETA: No idea what's going on with the formatting. One open quote, one close quote.
None of us have a direct source to his medical records. All we can go off is Mike Mayock saying he heard from teams that it was the reason he slid down boards. How else would you explain an RB who was considered a Round 2 talent falling 3 rounds on draft day? Given the timeline of degenerative knees, there's no way it can be dismissed right now.
All I Der Is Win - 16 Team IDP League (Pass TD 6pts)
QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker
QB - Stafford, Stroud, Tune
RB - Swift, Hall, Penny, Bigsby, Ford
WR - Pittman, Olave, Di. Johnson, G. Wilson, J. Williams, Metchie, Robinson, M. Wilson
TE - Okonkwo, Schoonmaker
LB - Brooks, R. Smith, Phillips
DL - Crosby, Allen, Simmons
DB - D. James, Baker, Delpit
K - Just a stupid kicker
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Re: Jay Ajayi value
That's very different than Brandon Roy level "bone on bone"--which was the rumor. There's a chance he'll need micro-fracture surgery; so I'm not saying that there is no risk. But Melvin Gordon and Travis Kelce have already had it, and I never hear about it.Cameron Giles wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 6:06 pmOf course Ajayi and his representatives are going to deny it. They were trying to ensure the highest draft position for him and admitting that Ajayi has degenerative knees would ruin that and a future contract.Concept Coop wrote: ↑Sat May 20, 2017 1:25 pm There was never a diagnosis, to my understanding. There were rumors leading up to he draft, which Jay and his team denied. If you have a source suggesting a Brandon Roy situation--essentially no cartilage--I'd appreciate seeing seeing it.
ETA: No idea what's going on with the formatting. One open quote, one close quote.
None of us have a direct source to his medical records. All we can go off is Mike Mayock saying he heard from teams that it was the reason he slid down boards. How else would you explain an RB who was considered a Round 2 talent falling 3 rounds on draft day? Given the timeline of degenerative knees, there's no way it can be dismissed right now.
Re: Jay Ajayi value
Here's the reports from the draft.
https://www.mwcconnection.com/2015-nfl- ... ree-rounds
More or less, some teams had him off board, some were willing to take him with the expectation he'd last 1 full contract (so assumedly 4-5 years).
The injury happened in 2011 and while there may not be firm evidence of the extent of the injury, but he definitely had an ACL tear and when those occur, cartilage tears are also possible, especially the meniscus. Osteoarthritis tends to materialize in 5-15 years from incident of those that tear meniscus in this manner.
Anyhow... fun fact for the day I found while looking for medical background on this... as a Freshman at Boise State, Jay Ajayi was sentenced to 5 days in jail for petit theft after stealing several pairs of sweatpants at a Walmart
https://www.mwcconnection.com/2015-nfl- ... ree-rounds
More or less, some teams had him off board, some were willing to take him with the expectation he'd last 1 full contract (so assumedly 4-5 years).
The injury happened in 2011 and while there may not be firm evidence of the extent of the injury, but he definitely had an ACL tear and when those occur, cartilage tears are also possible, especially the meniscus. Osteoarthritis tends to materialize in 5-15 years from incident of those that tear meniscus in this manner.
Anyhow... fun fact for the day I found while looking for medical background on this... as a Freshman at Boise State, Jay Ajayi was sentenced to 5 days in jail for petit theft after stealing several pairs of sweatpants at a Walmart
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
Re: Jay Ajayi value
I've always loved the talent...but that knee keeps me from investing in dynasty at current prices.
Optimistic owners will say he will be fine, but there have been small amounts of news here and there suggesting he has dealt with knee soreness since being in the NFL.
With that said, and given how hit and miss RBs can be, even 1-3 years of production is worth something. If he provides more, great.
Optimistic owners will say he will be fine, but there have been small amounts of news here and there suggesting he has dealt with knee soreness since being in the NFL.
With that said, and given how hit and miss RBs can be, even 1-3 years of production is worth something. If he provides more, great.
DLF HOF League | 16 Team 1PPR 1QB-2WR-2RB-1TE-2FL:
QB: Deshaun Watson | Stafford | Purdy | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley |DeVon Achane | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Joe Mixon / Chase Brown | Tucker
WR: Tyreek Hill | Rashee Rice | Tank Dell
WR: Stefon Diggs | DeVonta Smith | MWilliams | Claypool | C Austin
TE: Higbee | Likely | Chig Okonkwo | Strange
2023: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3
DLF Premium League | 16 Team 1PPR 1QB-2WR-2RB-1TE-2FL:
QB: Joe Burrow | Mayfield | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley | Tank Bigsby | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Aaron Jones | JK Dobbins | Sean Tucker
WR: Ja'Marr Chase | Christian Watson | Hyatt | Shenault
WR: Keenan Allen | Marquise Brown | Calvin Ridley | Addison | Claypool | C Jones | Shakir
TE: Sam LaPorta | Strange | Jonnu
2023: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
QB: Deshaun Watson | Stafford | Purdy | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley |DeVon Achane | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Joe Mixon / Chase Brown | Tucker
WR: Tyreek Hill | Rashee Rice | Tank Dell
WR: Stefon Diggs | DeVonta Smith | MWilliams | Claypool | C Austin
TE: Higbee | Likely | Chig Okonkwo | Strange
2023: 1, 2, 2, 3, 3, 3
DLF Premium League | 16 Team 1PPR 1QB-2WR-2RB-1TE-2FL:
QB: Joe Burrow | Mayfield | Hooker
RB: Saquon Barkley | Tank Bigsby | Deuce
RB: Alvin Kamara | Aaron Jones | JK Dobbins | Sean Tucker
WR: Ja'Marr Chase | Christian Watson | Hyatt | Shenault
WR: Keenan Allen | Marquise Brown | Calvin Ridley | Addison | Claypool | C Jones | Shakir
TE: Sam LaPorta | Strange | Jonnu
2023: 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2
Re: Jay Ajayi value
I agree with this point. State of the RB can be bad at times and he's getting it done at a better clip than most. That being said with the risk, he's a guy I'm trading if I'm rebuilding, but I feel that way with a lot of RBs. If I'm contending, I'm more than happy to let him maul defenses on my way to a title knowing that, if reports are true, one good hit in the knee will spiral his opportunity away.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker
2023: 1.01, 2.01
2024 early first, late first
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