McCaffrey vs. Mixon - who ya got?

[spotxc]

and we wait...

[Goddard]

can't spell it out to you any better there buddy, so no use...just some advice, try to understand before trying to argue, if u can't understand, then yes argue but seems like you have it the other way around...Should help you out more in providing a valid argument...And if thats not the case, then ur probably worse off than anticipated and comprehending isn't a strong suit of yours.

This whole run-on sentence/paragraph made absolutely no sense. Not sure what you're even arguing here. It's funny how when someone makes a valid point, you never have an actual response.

[spotxc]

I wouldn't figure u would understand. Kind of the point of my pointing to ur lack of comprehension ability.

[nathanq42]

Hold up...
NFL is ruled by money and REPUTATION.. is reputation not built off of how the public at large perceives the organization in question? And I'm pretty sure the players that are a part of the organization are what the public bases its opinion on. There was a bunch of backlash against the Bengals after they took Mixon, if you think a mid second round pick plus the PR (Public REPUTATION) hit is not close to what the panthers spent on McCaffrey you must not know how bad the Bengals got it.
And many of these employed NFL draft analysts and experts and scouts would claim on talent alone Mixon could be the top back in the draft. So its not at all fabricated.
And ummm that whole OBJ Watkins thing doesn't make sense.. At all... You claim people that back Mixon are sheep and pawns because they follow the general consensus around here, then you turn around and say that the consensus outside of DLF is that McCaffrey>Mixon.
So that would 1) put Mixon supporters in the minority (not sure how that equates to being a sheep by being in the minority) 2) you still havent made a case for McCaffrey being the better player, other than you think he is in a better situation, 'safer' (not sure how McCaffrey is safer), and draft capital (your skewed thinking of it because you keep dismissing the fact that the Bengals had to take a massive public RELATIONS firestorm that was brought on by PUBLIC OPINION of the matter) says so (which sounds to me like youre conforming to the general consensus to me) and until I get your reasoning laid out for why you have McCaffrey over Mixon I don't think you should be calling people sheep, because unlike you teo, I have laid out my logic and reasoning for why I have Mixon over McCaffrey.

[TTHTD]

I'm not sure how Watkins has a higher ceiling than OBJ, but ok?

Also, I think the Bengals taking Mixon with a 2nd round pick, when not many teams had him on their board, is a very strong investment. Especially when you consider the backlash it could have had with fans and marketing. Not going to argue whether it's a bigger investment than CMC at pick 10, but it's definitely not very far off when you consider everything involved. Also, Tavon Austin was the 8th pick in the draft. That doesn't automatically make you good. Even the experts reach sometimes and make mistakes.

That's the point, an argument could be made that Watkins might have a marginally higher ceiling than OBJ because he is a more prototypical WR but that argument is obviously absurd in the same way the Mixon > CMC argument is absurd just like this whole discussion has become absurd.

And really... you're going to throw out Tavon Austin as your comparison to CMC when the next best WRs in his class were Cordarelle Patterson and Justin Hunter while CMC was drafted 2nd in a historically talented RB class... Here's all the RBs taken near the top 10 over the last decade: Fournette, CMC, Zeke, Gurley, TRich, CJSpiller, DMC, AP, Lynch, Reggie Bush. I wonder how that list compares statistically with mid-2nd round RBs.

It makes no sense to say that Cinci's investment is = to Carolinas because of the PR backlash. If you don't think this is true who do you think will draft competition or cut ties with their player first if they both struggle, Carolina or Cinci? THAT is the difference in investment. A top 8 pick is someone you plan on building a team around for years while a mid-2nd guy is someone you think has a great shot of panning out as a starter. The public backlash works against Mixon in terms of the teams investment in him as a player, not for him like Carolina's investment in CMC does. There's a lot of strong arguments for Mixon, but this is definitely not one of them.

You know its funny. I really like Mixon a lot, I would even concede that he may be marginally more talented as a runner and near on par as a receiver, but team investment and situation are key with RBs which is a notoriously volatile position. To me this argument is hilarious because it's like arguing over prime Le-Veon Bell or prime LeSean McCoy. Situational safety is the decider for me here. Fun fact - Vegas odds have CMC as only slightly less likely to win OROY than Fournette (who is the favorite). CMC's is nearly 2.5X more likely to win OROY than Mixon. Even if you like Mixon more long term, the smart play is to draft CMC flip him for Mixon+ next year.

You claim people that back Mixon are sheep and pawns

Dude, that was literally you calling people sheep and pawns and me making fun of you for it. You guys are too much lol, it's been fun but your arguments continue to devolve into absurdity which tells me that you're defending a bias here and I know better than to argue against bias. Statistically speaking CMC > Mixon by a nose due to situational safety. Pick who you like but if you pick Mixon don't pretend it was a decision based on sound logic or statistics.

[spotxc]

At least someone else realizes how some people act when you say you'd take mccafrey over mixon. Maybe you're right and its the bias that blinds them, and i was being harsh with questioning their comprehension..or maybe i was right lol

[Goddard]

I'm not sure how Watkins has a higher ceiling than OBJ, but ok?

Also, I think the Bengals taking Mixon with a 2nd round pick, when not many teams had him on their board, is a very strong investment. Especially when you consider the backlash it could have had with fans and marketing. Not going to argue whether it's a bigger investment than CMC at pick 10, but it's definitely not very far off when you consider everything involved. Also, Tavon Austin was the 8th pick in the draft. That doesn't automatically make you good. Even the experts reach sometimes and make mistakes.

That's the point, an argument could be made that Watkins might have a marginally higher ceiling than OBJ because he is a more prototypical WR but that argument is obviously absurd in the same way the Mixon > CMC argument is absurd just like this whole discussion has become absurd.

And really... you're going to throw out Tavon Austin as your comparison to CMC when the next best WRs in his class were Cordarelle Patterson and Justin Hunter while CMC was drafted 2nd in a historically talented RB class... Here's all the RBs taken near the top 10 over the last decade: Fournette, CMC, Zeke, Gurley, TRich, CJSpiller, DMC, AP, Lynch, Reggie Bush. I wonder how that list compares statistically with mid-2nd round RBs.

It makes no sense to say that Cinci's investment is = to Carolinas because of the PR backlash. If you don't think this is true who do you think will draft competition or cut ties with their player first if they both struggle, Carolina or Cinci? THAT is the difference in investment. A top 8 pick is someone you plan on building a team around for years while a mid-2nd guy is someone you think has a great shot of panning out as a starter. The public backlash works against Mixon in terms of the teams investment in him as a player, not for him like Carolina's investment in CMC does. There's a lot of strong arguments for Mixon, but this is definitely not one of them.

You know its funny. I really like Mixon a lot, I would even concede that he may be marginally more talented as a runner and near on par as a receiver, but team investment and situation are key with RBs which is a notoriously volatile position. To me this argument is hilarious because it's like arguing over prime Le-Veon Bell or prime LeSean McCoy. Situational safety is the decider for me here. Fun fact - Vegas odds have CMC as only slightly less likely to win OROY than Fournette (who is the favorite). CMC's is nearly 2.5X more likely to win OROY than Mixon. Even if you like Mixon more long term, the smart play is to draft CMC flip him for Mixon+ next year.

You claim people that back Mixon are sheep and pawns

Dude, that was literally you calling people sheep and pawns and me making fun of you for it. You guys are too much lol, it's been fun but your arguments continue to devolve into absurdity which tells me that you're defending a bias here and I know better than to argue against bias. Statistically speaking CMC > Mixon by a nose due to situational safety. Pick who you like but if you pick Mixon don't pretend it was a decision based on sound logic or statistics.

I never compared Tavon to CMC, just merely pointing out that just because a team takes a player with a top 10 pick, doesn't automatically make him a stud. Not saying CMC won't or can't, just pointing it out for everyone saying CMC is better just because of his draft status. Also, everyone, including experts, will agree that Mixon was a first round talent. He didn't fall to the 2nd because he isn't/wasn't as good as Fournette or CMC.

Also, I feel like the CMC supporters assume the Mixon supporters hate CMC or think he's not good. I can prefer Mixon and still think CMC will be a good player.

As for the Vegas odds, it's actually pretty funny because Bovada had Mixon as the favorite a week ago and now it's Fournette. Just shows that even those guys can't make up their minds.

[nathanq42]

Okay okay, I see you point with the draft capital, I thought you meant it was an indicator that McCaffrey was a better talent, that way of looking at it is a good point for McCaffrey. But one of you two definitely got your sheep/pawn comment deleted or edited, any who.

Honestly a hair splitting discussion between these two, I think on the field mixon has the higher floor and ceiling BUT McCaffrey will get more support because of the draft capital that was spent on him *hat tip in recognition to you TT*

[Shoreline Steamers]

I know I posted something similar earlier in the thread, but have been reading the back-and-forth on the topic and thought I'd chime in again. It's sort of a, "Is chocolate or vanilla the better flavor of ice cream?"

Why can't you like both? Which player is the better selection for your dynasty team probably has a lot to do with the scoring system said league employs. McCaffrey is expected to catch more passes than Mixon by a fair amount so I'd lean toward him in a PPR format. Mixon has superior "prototypical" size, so I'd take him in non-ppr for short yardage work.

I only play in a non-ppr dynasty league, so I lean Mixon. Primarily because I'm finished with the line of thinking that, "If he can add 8-10 lbs. in the weight room..." McCaffrey is a much better version of a player in the mold of Gio, Duke, Woodhead, and possibly Abdullah (though he's the smallest of these backs by far). All of these RB's play in a committee and cede goal line work. Could McCaffrey add some weight? Maybe. If he did, would he lose any speed or elusiveness? Purely speculation at this point.

Looking at McCaffey and Mixon heading into their rookie seasons I see two talented RB's with different strengths and weaknesses. Which traits and roles you value for your dynasty team will likely go a long way toward determining which player you prefer. I happen to like both backs prospects for success in the NFL. "Chocolate or vanilla?" personal preference.

[Reljac]

Why can't you like both? Which player is the better selection for your dynasty team probably has a lot to do with the scoring system said league employs. McCaffrey is expected to catch more passes than Mixon by a fair amount so I'd lean toward him in a PPR format. Mixon has superior "prototypical" size, so I'd take him in non-ppr for short yardage work.

Out of curioustiy what are you basing this fact on? Bengals have provided a much larger # of RB receptions the last few years than the Panthers have. Mixon was reknowned as an all-purpose back.

in addition, McCaffrey caught 99 passes over 37 games
and
Mixon had 65 receptions over 25 games

This works out to the same reception per game average. Mixon actually did it while splitting duties.

What's interesting is that Mixon did a lot more with his receptions... 14.5 ypr & 5 TDs in 2016 vs. McCaffrey's 8.4 & 3 TDs

[Goddard]

Why can't you like both? Which player is the better selection for your dynasty team probably has a lot to do with the scoring system said league employs. McCaffrey is expected to catch more passes than Mixon by a fair amount so I'd lean toward him in a PPR format. Mixon has superior "prototypical" size, so I'd take him in non-ppr for short yardage work.

Out of curioustiy what are you basing this fact on? Bengals have provided a much larger # of RB receptions the last few years than the Panthers have. Mixon was reknowned as an all-purpose back.

in addition, McCaffrey caught 99 passes over 37 games
and
Mixon had 65 receptions over 25 games

This works out to the same reception per game average. Mixon actually did it while splitting duties.

What's interesting is that Mixon did a lot more with his receptions... 14.5 ypr & 5 TDs in 2016 vs. McCaffrey's 8.4 & 3 TDs

I posted something like this earlier and mentioned how underrated Mixon is as a pass catcher. I don't think he gets enough credit for it.

I also agree that you can like both. Just because you like one more, doesn't mean the other sucks.

[Shoreline Steamers]

Why can't you like both? Which player is the better selection for your dynasty team probably has a lot to do with the scoring system said league employs. McCaffrey is expected to catch more passes than Mixon by a fair amount so I'd lean toward him in a PPR format. Mixon has superior "prototypical" size, so I'd take him in non-ppr for short yardage work.

Out of curioustiy what are you basing this fact on? Bengals have provided a much larger # of RB receptions the last few years than the Panthers have. Mixon was reknowned as an all-purpose back.

in addition, McCaffrey caught 99 passes over 37 games
and
Mixon had 65 receptions over 25 games

This works out to the same reception per game average. Mixon actually did it while splitting duties.

What's interesting is that Mixon did a lot more with his receptions... 14.5 ypr & 5 TDs in 2016 vs. McCaffrey's 8.4 & 3 TDs

I posted something like this earlier and mentioned how underrated Mixon is as a pass catcher. I don't think he gets enough credit for it.

I also agree that you can like both. Just because you like one more, doesn't mean the other sucks.

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that Gio will still be in Cincy, while Carolina doesn't have a RB on the roster than can catch out of the backfield like McCaffrey can. That's not a knock on Mixon's pass catching ability, but a nod to Gio. I believe Mixon is more of a threat to Hill than to Gio, at least initially.

[Goddard]

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that Gio will still be in Cincy, while Carolina doesn't have a RB on the roster than can catch out of the backfield like McCaffrey can. That's not a knock on Mixon's pass catching ability, but a nod to Gio. I believe Mixon is more of a threat to Hill than to Gio, at least initially.

I wasn't necessarily just responding to you, but more so to everyone that praises CMC for his pass catching ability, but ignores Mixon's. As for Carolina, Stewart is actually a pretty good pass catching/blocking back and more of a threat for overall touches than anyone in Cinci. Gio is still recovering from ACL surgery and Hill shouldn't be a threat to anyone (if he's still even on the roster come week 1 - this will depend more on Gio's health than Mixon's abilities). Cream always rises to the top, I wouldn't worry too much about competition for either guy though.

[49ersFaithful80]

There is no situation where I'm drafting a 2nd rounder over a top 10 pick.

The statistics say McCaffrey has a much better chance for success.

Repeat after me. "Professional scouts know more than I do by a huge margin. They have access to information that I do not. They get to meet the players, talk to their college coaches, and watch them do drills in real time. They're probably a good bit more informed than me."

[Shoreline Steamers]

I'm basing my opinion on the fact that Gio will still be in Cincy, while Carolina doesn't have a RB on the roster than can catch out of the backfield like McCaffrey can. That's not a knock on Mixon's pass catching ability, but a nod to Gio. I believe Mixon is more of a threat to Hill than to Gio, at least initially.

I wasn't necessarily just responding to you, but more so to everyone that praises CMC for his pass catching ability, but ignores Mixon's. As for Carolina, Stewart is actually a pretty good pass catching/blocking back and more of a threat for overall touches than anyone in Cinci. Gio is still recovering from ACL surgery and Hill shouldn't be a threat to anyone (if he's still even on the roster come week 1 - this will depend more on Gio's health than Mixon's abilities). Cream always rises to the top, I wouldn't worry too much about competition for either guy though.

I see where you're coming from. Hopefully my reply didn't seem snarky as it wasn't meant to be. I was also considering that based on their contracts I think Gio will be in Cincy longer than Stewart will be in Carolina as well. Agreed that if Mixon shows to be the talent that we both think he can be that it won't matter in anyway as he'll relegate Gio to a complimentary role. The same is probably true for McCaffrey/JStew committee.