Josh Gordon Thread: Reinstatement (Deja Vu)

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Risky bidness » Mon Dec 09, 2013 6:50 am

stapel0 wrote:I've been a big Gordon fan and an owner. But I'm getting a little scared...and here is why.

That huge number of really long TDs is just not sustainable. Nobody gets 80yd TDs every week, for multiple seasons. WRs or RBs can get them for 1 season...but every season? Nope.

Like Chris Johnson's 2000yd season...full of 80yd TD runs. When the 80yd TD runs went from a big number to a more reasonable number, he went back to being a 1200yd RB, which he has been the rest of his career. Outlier season.

Still, Gordon has a ton of talent...can be an every season top flight WR...it just seems like if his only options are to be as good as Megatron or be a disappointment...I'm worried.

Not that I'm doing anything about it right now...
Don't look at length of touchdowns, those are just gravy. Look at target numbers. I say it all the time...targets are what make whatever WR a WR1, 2, 3 etc. Gordon has the ability to take a slant to the house as seen yesterday, but he's not dependent on long TD production. I agree he won't score long tds all the time, but his targets should keep him posting sustainable good/great numbers.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby nation31 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 7:15 am

Look at Cruz though-he hasnt been getting the 80 yard TD like he did, he first year in the league, and he just isnt the same. I am not saying this will happen to Gordon, but you just dont know; he has been gettin those long TD all year, take away half of them and that probably takes away 350 yards and 4 scores or so. I just dont know what to think about this guy, but I dont think he can be rivaling Calvin for the top WR anytime soon, Calvin is Calvin. I just htink there is much risk with Gordon to rank him that high (have him at #5 now-due to his play). I am curious to see what happens next season when Cleveland does get a QB, and a WR2--and the QB spreads the ball around a little more adn Gordon isnt gettin 15 targets a game. He is polarizing though.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Chris_R » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:37 am

stapel0 wrote:I've been a big Gordon fan and an owner. But I'm getting a little scared...and here is why.

That huge number of really long TDs is just not sustainable. Nobody gets 80yd TDs every week, for multiple seasons. WRs or RBs can get them for 1 season...but every season? Nope.

Like Chris Johnson's 2000yd season...full of 80yd TD runs. When the 80yd TD runs went from a big number to a more reasonable number, he went back to being a 1200yd RB, which he has been the rest of his career. Outlier season.

Still, Gordon has a ton of talent...can be an every season top flight WR...it just seems like if his only options are to be as good as Megatron or be a disappointment...I'm worried.

Not that I'm doing anything about it right now...
He probably won't put up this type of ridiculous season and then people will look at it like a down year, but I'd take a season similiar to 80/1200/8. We just can't expect this type of season year in and out. Just like I didn't expect Dez to have another 16 games this year like his last 8 last year, just like how Calvin's TD's fluctuate up and down a bit year to year. He's probably setting himself up for a failure next year to some people because everyone who didn't reach for him is gonna call him overvalued if he doesn't have an insane season. For me, it's more about knowing that you have the potential to have the #1 fantasy WR for 10 more seasons. Even if he finishes 10th, or 13th, some of those seasons, wouldn't be the worst thing. The worst thing is another suspension.


I'm already expecting that if they get a better running game, become a better football team that wins more games so they aren't throwing the entire 4th quarter playing catch-up, that his targets and stats will level off at least a bit. Right now it's just the perfect storm so you just enjoy it and ride it out. I've enjoyed some nice runs by LT, Calvin, Deangelo Williams, Dez, and even if some of those guys did stay elite certain runs they made were not going to happen again.
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby stapel0 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:52 am

The question for me about all the long TDs - is this his peak value, and should we cash in on it now.

You most definitely did better for your dynasty team if you cashed in on Chris Johnson after his 2000yd season, or LaDanian Tomlinson or Shaun Alexander after they set the TD records...but those are RBs with notorious short careers. Will we look back and see now was the time you could have cashed out on Gordon? I don't know. Something to consider in the offseason and start of next season, in my mind.

I still think he has the talent to be a top 4 WR consistently...just some food for thought here.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby ccj » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:59 am

nation31 wrote:Look at Cruz though-he hasnt been getting the 80 yard TD like he did, he first year in the league, and he just isnt the same.
I was actually just thinking about this comparison, but I think it's a good thing not a bad thing. Cruz had a great 2011 and followed it up with a very solid 2012 (sans a bunch of long TDs). This season he's on pace for 88-1240-5 a midst a Giants team that has been struggling mightily on offense.

If anything I'd say we're probably seeing Gordon's ceiling, but it sets a strong floor for him.

For those curious on a per target basis (PPR) Cruz had 2.53ppt in 2011 to Gordon's current 2013 2.29ppt.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby pntgvn2399 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:04 am

stapel0 wrote:The question for me about all the long TDs - is this his peak value, and should we cash in on it now.

You most definitely did better for your dynasty team if you cashed in on Chris Johnson after his 2000yd season, or LaDanian Tomlinson or Shaun Alexander after they set the TD records...but those are RBs with notorious short careers. Will we look back and see now was the time you could have cashed out on Gordon? I don't know. Something to consider in the offseason and start of next season, in my mind.

I still think he has the talent to be a top 4 WR consistently...just some food for thought here.
I am lucky enough to have him, Megatron and Dez in a league so I have no reason to cash him in but even then I don't see a reason to trade him at all. This is a 22 year old STUD who has 10 years in front of him, the ONLY reason I can see someone wanting to cash in is due to the character concerns but man what a waste of talent it would be if the kid can't keep his head on straight!
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby balaberda » Mon Dec 09, 2013 9:08 am

I think we all agree he isn't going to be doing this every game. But the targets and skillset is what get us excited. Of course he won't keep this up. But very few people are even capable of these types of games.

I want a guy who can give me around 70-100 yards every game and mix in his TDs. Gordon seems to be that guy. Yes he will slow down but he should be a lock for consistent points (the majority of the time). A guy like this with the potential to post the monster 200 yard multi TD game can almost win you a week. Even Calvin has his off days and he is WR1 not even close.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby KMA » Mon Dec 09, 2013 11:02 am

Not to mention the offense is tailored for the vertical attack. Think Vincent Jackson. A majority of Gordon's yards came after the catch though. Obviously he will not put up 200 yards every week. But who does? As long as he is better than most, I'm cool. And by most I mean everyone not named Calvin, AJ, Dez, and maybe Julio.
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby balaberda » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:48 pm

I love how they have him running 5 yard crossing routes. He runs from one side all the way to the other and he can use his body to always be open. The giants should pay attention.

It is a joke the way these WR run routes for NYG. 4th down play and the 2 outside WR (Nicks and Randle) are running 20 yard comeback routes with Cruz running like a double move. Its just terrible.

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby joeday » Mon Dec 09, 2013 12:59 pm

georg013 wrote:Not to mention the offense is tailored for the vertical attack. Think Vincent Jackson. A majority of Gordon's yards came after the catch though. Obviously he will not put up 200 yards every week. But who does? As long as he is better than most, I'm cool. And by most I mean everyone not named Calvin, AJ, Dez, and maybe Julio.
And I just want to go on record as to why I have him 6th (tho he is moving up) and not 2...I think that everyone in the 3-6 range have a flea here or there. Julio with the injury history now, Dez being a potential head case, how is Dem without Peyton, Gordon with a smaller sample size and the possible suspension...Calvin and AJG really are the only two elite WRs without any noticeable fleas IMO.
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby KMA » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:20 pm

Although it's just splitting hairs, Calvin does have some fleas of his own. First, he is turning 29 next season. Second, that knee seems to be a weekly/yearly issue with him. I worry about that big frame taking a pounding every time he comes down with a Stafford touchdown. He just seems to slam to the ground. They are draining fluid out of it like an oil pan. This is at age 28. Imagine age 31 with more miles on it.
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby joeday » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:22 pm

georg013 wrote:Although it's just splitting hairs, Calvin does have some fleas of his own. First, he is turning 29 next season. Second, that knee seems to be a weekly/yearly issue with him. I worry about that big frame taking a pounding every time he comes down with a Stafford touchdown. He just seems to slam to the ground. They are draining fluid out of it like an oil pan. This is at age 28. Imagine age 31 with more miles on it.
yes you are lol
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WR – AJ Brown | CeeDee Lamb
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2011 | 2013 | 2015 | 2016 | 2017 | 2018 | 2020 – 🏆
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12 team | 10 keepers | non ppr | est. 2001
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby Chris_R » Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:30 pm

I used to be worried about Andre Johnsons' knees, but I won't make that mistake again about an elite athlete. Off the top of my head Andre had a lot of knee issues at different times in his career, but he still looks like exactly the same player he was at 22 years old.
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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby stapel0 » Mon Dec 09, 2013 2:26 pm

Chris_R wrote:I used to be worried about Andre Johnsons' knees, but I won't make that mistake again about an elite athlete. Off the top of my head Andre had a lot of knee issues at different times in his career, but he still looks like exactly the same player he was at 22 years old.
Meh, Andre is still great, but he is not quite as speedy as he was...

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Re: Josh Gordon

Postby joshb » Mon Dec 09, 2013 3:09 pm

Has Gordon shown himself to be a redzone threat? It seems like almost all his td's are long.
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