Josh Gordon Thread: Reinstatement (Deja Vu)

[jetsfan5757]

Talk about dishonest to the truth. Remind me who was the QB that year? Or how the team was already in the dumps. The whole team's moral was poop. As everyone likes to preach he had missed a lot of games and players need time to get back into the game. He actually did very well under all those variables. Oh dont forget he felt betrayed by his team. Cleveland came crashing down towards the end of that season and Gordon wasn't the worst of it.

It's entirely possible that I'm just not remembering it right, but I feel like I remember him looking pretty subpar that year.

I think it might be because there were many owners expecting him to come back and dominate in such a way as to give them an easy glide through the playoffs. He came back and wasn't the savior, so people just hated the fact that they pinned their playoff hopes on him...maybe? Then he immediately got suspended again after the season, right? Of course that put a negative light on him in the fantasy community, so maybe his failures to dominate were highlighted more...
Maybe not though. Maybe he was bad. I don't remember. Even elite WRs like Julio have bad stretches here and there, though...especially if they would be playing under the influence I imagine.

He didn't look great, but he wasn't THAT bad either. You don't just lose all the talent that let him have that 2013 season. Sure, it will take a LOT of work to get back there, and he might not (probably won't) be THAT good again. If you buy Gordon I think you are getting one of 3 things:
- drinks/smokes his way out of the league - total loss
- becomes a top 10 WR again - massive gain, best case scenario
- becomes a WR 2 - solid gain. If he doesn't drink/smoke his way out of the league, I can't see him being worse than this. Too much God given talent...

[Phaded]

That's fine, that's the bottom line for you. The bottom line for me is I'm more concerned about him getting suspended again than I am his talent level when playing. If I sell him now I might get a 2nd. If he returns to form then he's worth a lot more than that. Worst case scenario is he get's suspended again and I get nothing out of it instead of a 2nd. Big deal, worth the risk in my opinion.

You never know. That 2nd round pick could've got you Kareem Hunt or David Johnson one year. Or it could've been the sweetner to a bigger trade. Gordon did not look good at all the last time he played in 2014. So, it's odd to me that his talent level is viewed as a certainty. He is more than three years removed from that magical 2013 season. That's not insignificant.

Talk about dishonest to the truth. Remind me who was the QB that year? Or how the team was already in the dumps. The whole team's moral was poop. As everyone likes to preach he had missed a lot of games and players need time to get back into the game. He actually did very well under all those variables. Oh dont forget he felt betrayed by his team. Cleveland came crashing down towards the end of that season and Gordon wasn't the worst of it.

This is grossly inaccurate and you should at least double check before making such awful claims.

The Browns were 4-12 in 2013 as opposed to 7-9 in 2014. You could even argue their QB situation was better in 2014.

When a respected vet like Joe Thomas says the team was better without you, that in itself is a massive red flag.

[Cameron Giles]

b
Talk about dishonest to the truth. Remind me who was the QB that year? Or how the team was already in the dumps. The whole team's moral was poop. As everyone likes to preach he had missed a lot of games and players need time to get back into the game. He actually did very well under all those variables. Oh dont forget he felt betrayed by his team. Cleveland came crashing down towards the end of that season and Gordon wasn't the worst of it.

It sounds like you're looking at every excuse except Gordon himself.

Gordon played with three QB's in 2013: Jason Campbell, Brandon Weeden and Brian Hoyer. Average passer rating: 75.7

The QB's in 2014: Brian Hoyer, Johnny Manziel, Connor Shaw (1 game). Average passer rating: 72.8

Please go ahead and tell me about how drastically different those QB rotations are.

[jetsfan5757]

Gordon was a disaster back then, but it’s not like his body broke down. If he has his head on straight, he should be much better than what we last saw...

[Cameron Giles]

Gordon was a disaster back then, but it’s not like his body broke down. If he has his head on straight, he should be much better than what we last saw...

I agree with you. However, I don't think that level is necessarily 2013 Josh Gordon.

If we're making excuses about the QB's he played with and the offense he played under last time, then I'm confused as to why DeShone Kizer's 4/12 TD-INT ratio and his 54.3 passer rating are the perfect cure.

[ericanadian]

b
Talk about dishonest to the truth. Remind me who was the QB that year? Or how the team was already in the dumps. The whole team's moral was poop. As everyone likes to preach he had missed a lot of games and players need time to get back into the game. He actually did very well under all those variables. Oh dont forget he felt betrayed by his team. Cleveland came crashing down towards the end of that season and Gordon wasn't the worst of it.

It sounds like you're looking at every excuse except Gordon himself.

Gordon played with three QB's in 2013: Jason Campbell, Brandon Weeden and Brian Hoyer. Average passer rating: 75.7

The QB's in 2014: Brian Hoyer, Johnny Manziel, Connor Shaw (1 game). Average passer rating: 72.8

Please go ahead and tell me about how drastically different those QB rotations are.

Campbell & Weeden can/could throw an effective deep ball. Hoyer can not. The one game with Manziel, Gordon only put up 48 yards, but it's worth noting that was over 50% of their total passing offense. I think it's fair to say that Gordon will struggle with a game manager QB throwing the football. Luckily, Kizer isn't that.

[Phaded]

I would like to see on what basis Weeden & Campbell throw a better deep ball than Hoyer.

None of these three scream "great deep ball" to me personally so I would be curious in anything that backs that statement up.

[Cameron Giles]

Campbell & Weeden can/could throw an effective deep ball. Hoyer can not. The one game with Manziel, Gordon only put up 48 yards, but it's worth noting that was over 50% of their total passing offense. I think it's fair to say that Gordon will struggle with a game manager QB throwing the football. Luckily, Kizer isn't that.

2013 - Passes Thrown 21 yards or more:

Weeden - 7/30, 23% completion
Campbell - 6/27, 22% completion
Hoyer - 3/8, 41.5% completion

Keep in mind Hoyer only played 3 games. You could discount his volume, but Weeden and Campbell's volume would not indicate that they were good at throwing it deep.

[Phaded]

Very far from a perfect science but here are the numbers from 2013 vs 2014.

2013 Campbell
317 Attempts. 25 20+. 7 40+.

2013 Weeden
267 Attempts. 31 20+. 6 40+.

2014 Hoyer (barely any Gordon)
438 Attempts. 51 20+. 10 40+.

Even if you break them down per attempt, Campbell is the worst of the 3 and Weeden & Hoyer are very comparable.

Like I said, not a perfect science but if anything it does not suggest they are much more efficient than Hoyer, if at all. I could not find attempts, though.

EDIT: CG has better stats than what I could find. lol

[jetsfan5757]

Gordon was a disaster back then, but it’s not like his body broke down. If he has his head on straight, he should be much better than what we last saw...

I agree with you. However, I don't think that level is necessarily 2013 Josh Gordon.

If we're making excuses about the QB's he played with and the offense he played under last time, then I'm confused as to why DeShone Kizer's 4/12 TD-INT ratio and his 54.3 passer rating are the perfect cure.

I agree completely. And as far as Kizer, let me just say

[Tsunami]

From what I remember of the 2014 Browns, they were surprisingly good at the beginning of the season due to a successful defense and Hoyer was pretty efficient game manager despite no WR talent. But towards the end of the season they returned to form and were terrible. I think they tried to force-feed Gordon the ball and for some reason that connection didn't work. The first 10 games Hoyer had 11 TDs 5 INTs; the last 4 games with Gordon playing he had 1 TD and 8 INTs.

I don't think it was Gordon's fault, I think the lack of practice was probably a big factor. But he was definitely disappointing fantasy-wise. I'd like to go back and watch those games if I knew how to find them.

[1coldone]

These few games he will be playing this year....is a show for a different team NEXT year. Those teams know what the Browns offense is...all JG has to do, show he still has enough for a team to make a move for him...IMHO.

[Kurt G.O.A.T.]

...I honestly cannot believe there are people here who think there is even a chance Gordon will produce at a high level...

really? did you see him in the preseason last year? he looked like a stud. his body control and tracking the ball were all still there and made a couple of great deep catches. i have no doubt he can play at a high level.

were you one of the people that wrote off randy moss at the end of his regrettable raiders stint?

[Slackalacker]

Well since it has been awhile:

Hue says Gordon will play “as much as possible” week 13. Two of my playoff seedlings are already sealed, but am i crazy for considering him over Evan Engram in my winner take all matchup next week? Only time will tell.

[purplepride28]

Well since it has been awhile:

Hue says Gordon will play “as much as possible” week 13. Two of my playoff seedlings are already sealed, but am i crazy for considering him over Evan Engram in my winner take all matchup next week? Only time will tell.

Crazy like a fox! Insert them Gordon’s into your lineups! It’s time!