Are we nervous about Keenan?

[joeday]

With the Chargers having a few other needs but drafting Mike Williams early are we worried about Keenan Allen in LAC? Does this drop him in your rankings, and if so, how far?

[Madadamus]

He should drop. He's a great receiver but he's not a number one and he was playing one getting force fed targets. We haven't seen him with Hunter Henry, now you add another receiver that can develop to be that true number one, the targets are going to diminish.

[joeday]

We dropping him toward the Kelvin Benjamin area?

[BuckeyeNation]

We dropping him toward the Kelvin Benjamin area?

Feels about right. Mid-low WR2 range rankings wise. The injuries drop him down a bit for me too.

[maxhyde]

I sold him everywhere before last year but I don't know that he is a guy I am downgrading too much based on my lower overall view of him to start.
It is still kinda fluid in LA for me. Tyrell Williams and Inman take a bigger hit

[onetwothree]

I think he's more dangerous as a slot guy than being outside and facing the top corner. Volume down, efficiency up.

Mike Williams hurts Henry's value a lot more which was propped up by TDs that will likely now go to the WR whose calling card is winning the 50/50 balls. Tyrell and Benjamin are still the only speed guys so they still have a role.

[Cowboysfan33]

Yeah, I think this definitely hurts Allens value. He has had some big injuries the last couple of seasons so it has to play a part in this pick. I'm not sure why it would hurt Tyrell at all, he has over-achieved, if anything, he was undrafted and just turned in a 1,000 yard 7 TD season. I don't think it hurts his role much at all.

[TurtleBK]

Yep. I think the Chargers are signaling that KA might not make it back the same, and his rehab has been concerning. I've had this feeling for a couple months and have been looking for more shares of Tyrell who looked fantastic last year for a top notch athlete with prototypical size who was a bit raw last year coming from a tiny school. Kid learned fast and has a lot more growth ahead of him imo.

Regarding MW, I see him as more of a KB type player who is good at jump balls and has enough athletic ability to find his way into the first round, but had poor age-adjusted production and lacks the all-around-WR1 upside that you want when drafting a big receiver in the top 7. I think he was highly overdrafted by the Chargers, and a lot of people are blinded enough by Clemson's flashy offense and Sammy Watkins/DeAndre Hopkins that they forget to notice that MW looks a lot like a big posession receiver who has maxed out his athletic ability through hard work and might not be able to step it up enough to get the same separation in the NFL. Just one man's opinion though.

I love Tyrell and think that the Chargers way-overdrafting MW creates a good buy opportunity from owners who don't realize Tyrell can do things that both of these guys can't with his speed in particular. It's rare for any player to throw up 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a sophomore. Let alone an undrafted one with prototypical size, top end speed, solid hands, and really nice tape who's also pretty good after the catch.

In any case, Rivers makes a decent redraft play this year I would think. Especially when the Chargers add a RB in the next two rounds to compliment and likely even challenge Melvin Gordon.

[ChuckCecil26]

Yep. I think the Chargers are signaling that KA might not make it back the same, and his rehab has been concerning. I've had this feeling for a couple months and have been looking for more shares of Tyrell who looked fantastic last year for a top notch athlete with prototypical size who was a bit raw last year coming from a tiny school. Kid learned fast and has a lot more growth ahead of him imo.

Regarding MW, I see him as more of a KB type player who is good at jump balls and has enough athletic ability to find his way into the first round, but had poor age-adjusted production and lacks the all-around-WR1 upside that you want when drafting a big receiver in the top 7. I think he was highly overdrafted by the Chargers, and a lot of people are blinded enough by Clemson's flashy offense and Sammy Watkins/DeAndre Hopkins that they forget to notice that MW looks a lot like a big posession receiver who has maxed out his athletic ability through hard work and might not be able to step it up enough to get the same separation in the NFL. Just one man's opinion though.

I love Tyrell and think that the Chargers way-overdrafting MW creates a good buy opportunity from owners who don't realize Tyrell can do things that both of these guys can't with his speed in particular. It's rare for any player to throw up 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a sophomore. Let alone an undrafted one with prototypical size, top end speed, solid hands, and really nice tape who's also pretty good after the catch.

In any case, Rivers makes a decent redraft play this year I would think. Especially when the Chargers add a RB in the next two rounds to compliment and likely even challenge Melvin Gordon.

Not that rare. Recent 1000 yard sophomore seasons for guys who never lived up to the hype:

Allen Hurns
Michael Floyd
Mike Wallace (guess he's been okay)
John Brown (suppose he still has a chance)
Victor Cruz
Dwayne Bowe
Tyrell Williams?

And plenty of players (like Torrey Smith) had 1000 yard production in their third seasons and never found the mountaintop again.

What's crazy to me is that you're simultaneously praising UDFA Tyrell Williams to the moon while criticizing #7 overall pick Mike Williams -- and criticizing the Chargers for "way overdrafting" him? That's insane. If the Chargers hadn't taken MW, he'd never have made it past the Bengals or Lions. This wasn't a reach. Comparing these two WRs - and seemingly favoring Tyrell in terms of talent -- is one of the most misguided opinions I've ever read on this forum.

Why did 32 NFL teams pass on Tyrell Williams seven times in the draft? You'd think that a player with these "prototypical" (supernatural?) abilities would have had scouts screaming his name in draft rooms.

Tyrell Williams is a fine little player. Career ceiling = Miles Austin or Steve Johnson. These guys almost always burn fast for a couple years and then vanish.

Mike Williams landed in WR heaven with Philip Rivers. He could still bust. Any of these guys can bust. But a player with his ability in that situation could be be a perennial Pro Bowler for years to come -- and he has a chance to be the best WR Rivers has ever had.

[ColdZealDonkeyStrike]

Yep. I think the Chargers are signaling that KA might not make it back the same, and his rehab has been concerning. I've had this feeling for a couple months and have been looking for more shares of Tyrell who looked fantastic last year for a top notch athlete with prototypical size who was a bit raw last year coming from a tiny school. Kid learned fast and has a lot more growth ahead of him imo.

Regarding MW, I see him as more of a KB type player who is good at jump balls and has enough athletic ability to find his way into the first round, but had poor age-adjusted production and lacks the all-around-WR1 upside that you want when drafting a big receiver in the top 7. I think he was highly overdrafted by the Chargers, and a lot of people are blinded enough by Clemson's flashy offense and Sammy Watkins/DeAndre Hopkins that they forget to notice that MW looks a lot like a big posession receiver who has maxed out his athletic ability through hard work and might not be able to step it up enough to get the same separation in the NFL. Just one man's opinion though.

I love Tyrell and think that the Chargers way-overdrafting MW creates a good buy opportunity from owners who don't realize Tyrell can do things that both of these guys can't with his speed in particular. It's rare for any player to throw up 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a sophomore. Let alone an undrafted one with prototypical size, top end speed, solid hands, and really nice tape who's also pretty good after the catch.

In any case, Rivers makes a decent redraft play this year I would think. Especially when the Chargers add a RB in the next two rounds to compliment and likely even challenge Melvin Gordon.

Not that rare. Recent 1000 yard sophomore seasons for guys who never lived up to the hype:

Allen Hurns
Michael Floyd
Mike Wallace (guess he's been okay)
John Brown (suppose he still has a chance)
Victor Cruz
Dwayne Bowe
Tyrell Williams?

And plenty of players (like Torrey Smith) had 1000 yard production in their third seasons and never found the mountaintop again.

What's crazy to me is that you're simultaneously praising UDFA Tyrell Williams to the moon while criticizing #7 overall pick Mike Williams -- and criticizing the Chargers for "way overdrafting" him? That's insane. If the Chargers hadn't taken MW, he'd never have made it past the Bengals or Lions. This wasn't a reach. Comparing these two WRs - and seemingly favoring Tyrell in terms of talent -- is one of the most misguided opinions I've ever read on this forum.

Why did 32 NFL teams pass on Tyrell Williams seven times in the draft? You'd think that a player with these "prototypical" (supernatural?) abilities would have had scouts screaming his name in draft rooms.

Tyrell Williams is a fine little player. Career ceiling = Miles Austin or Steve Johnson. These guys almost always burn fast for a couple years and then vanish.

Mike Williams landed in WR heaven with Philip Rivers. He could still bust. Any of these guys can bust. But a player with his ability in that situation could be be a perennial Pro Bowler for years to come -- and he has a chance to be the best WR Rivers has ever had.

You could probably do with a little less snark and condescension. Tyrell Williams is a fine little player? He would probably kick your a** for saying that

Most of the WRs you listed that flamed out had injury issues or some other issues, but otherwise were on track to have nice little careers. I personally have no inside knowledge that Williams is an alcoholic, so I don't see how Floyd is relevant. I haven't seen anything to suggest he will suffer a greusome torn patellar injury, so Cruz flaming out after 2 great seasons doesn't seam relevant either. Maybe he has a hidden sickle-cell disease like Brown? Dwayne Bowe? He was actually a pretty good WR, he just stopped giving a crap after he got a big contract. Austin was also a terror, he just had hammy issues. I think any owner of Tyrell or Mike Williams should be thrilled if Miles Austin-like seasons are in the range of possible outcomes.

I am not crazy about Tyrell Williams (especially now), but he got passed on in the draft because he came from a division 3 school with almost zero tape available. Scouts have limited resources, and player slip through the cracks. He has really good physical tools, and obviously is a hard worker given how much he improved in just 1 offseason in the NFL. Given how raw he still was, it was encouraging to see that type of growth, and gives me a reasonable expectation that he will improve his craft. Is he going to keep Mike Williams off the field? Definitely not, but if you think he is not going to be a pain in the butt for MW owners early on, I think you will be disappointed.

[ChuckCecil26]

Yep. I think the Chargers are signaling that KA might not make it back the same, and his rehab has been concerning. I've had this feeling for a couple months and have been looking for more shares of Tyrell who looked fantastic last year for a top notch athlete with prototypical size who was a bit raw last year coming from a tiny school. Kid learned fast and has a lot more growth ahead of him imo.

Regarding MW, I see him as more of a KB type player who is good at jump balls and has enough athletic ability to find his way into the first round, but had poor age-adjusted production and lacks the all-around-WR1 upside that you want when drafting a big receiver in the top 7. I think he was highly overdrafted by the Chargers, and a lot of people are blinded enough by Clemson's flashy offense and Sammy Watkins/DeAndre Hopkins that they forget to notice that MW looks a lot like a big posession receiver who has maxed out his athletic ability through hard work and might not be able to step it up enough to get the same separation in the NFL. Just one man's opinion though.

I love Tyrell and think that the Chargers way-overdrafting MW creates a good buy opportunity from owners who don't realize Tyrell can do things that both of these guys can't with his speed in particular. It's rare for any player to throw up 1,000 yards and 7 TDs as a sophomore. Let alone an undrafted one with prototypical size, top end speed, solid hands, and really nice tape who's also pretty good after the catch.

In any case, Rivers makes a decent redraft play this year I would think. Especially when the Chargers add a RB in the next two rounds to compliment and likely even challenge Melvin Gordon.

Not that rare. Recent 1000 yard sophomore seasons for guys who never lived up to the hype:

Allen Hurns
Michael Floyd
Mike Wallace (guess he's been okay)
John Brown (suppose he still has a chance)
Victor Cruz
Dwayne Bowe
Tyrell Williams?

And plenty of players (like Torrey Smith) had 1000 yard production in their third seasons and never found the mountaintop again.

What's crazy to me is that you're simultaneously praising UDFA Tyrell Williams to the moon while criticizing #7 overall pick Mike Williams -- and criticizing the Chargers for "way overdrafting" him? That's insane. If the Chargers hadn't taken MW, he'd never have made it past the Bengals or Lions. This wasn't a reach. Comparing these two WRs - and seemingly favoring Tyrell in terms of talent -- is one of the most misguided opinions I've ever read on this forum.

Why did 32 NFL teams pass on Tyrell Williams seven times in the draft? You'd think that a player with these "prototypical" (supernatural?) abilities would have had scouts screaming his name in draft rooms.

Tyrell Williams is a fine little player. Career ceiling = Miles Austin or Steve Johnson. These guys almost always burn fast for a couple years and then vanish.

Mike Williams landed in WR heaven with Philip Rivers. He could still bust. Any of these guys can bust. But a player with his ability in that situation could be be a perennial Pro Bowler for years to come -- and he has a chance to be the best WR Rivers has ever had.

You could probably do with a little less snark and condescension. Tyrell Williams is a fine little player? He would probably kick your a** for saying that

Most of the WRs you listed that flamed out had injury issues or some other issues, but otherwise were on track to have nice little careers. I personally have no inside knowledge that Williams is an alcoholic, so I don't see how Floyd is relevant. I haven't seen anything to suggest he will suffer a greusome torn patellar injury, so Cruz flaming out after 2 great seasons doesn't seam relevant either. Maybe he has a hidden sickle-cell disease like Brown? Dwayne Bowe? He was actually a pretty good WR, he just stopped giving a crap after he got a big contract. Austin was also a terror, he just had hammy issues. I think any owner of Tyrell or Mike Williams should be thrilled if Miles Austin-like seasons are in the range of possible outcomes.

I am not crazy about Tyrell Williams (especially now), but he got on in the draft passed because he came from a division 3 school with almost zero tape available. Scouts have limited resources, and player slip through the cracks. I get that you don't like him since you are going to multiple threads and railing on the guy, but he has really good physical tools, and obviously is a hard worker given how much he improved in just 1 offseason in the NFL. Given how raw he still was, it was encouraging to see that type of growth, and gives me a reasonable expectation that he will improve his craft. Is he going to keep Mike Williams off the field? Definitely not, but if you think he is not going to be a pain in the butt for MW owners early on, I think you will be disappointed.

Come on, I knew as soon as I posted a list that someone would materialize and nitpick each example one by one lol. Every player who flames out has issues. If Tyrell flames out, we can add his issue to the list.

The backstory is that until the selection of Mike Williams, the Tyrell Cultists were irrationally convinced Tyrell was worth a 1st round rookie pick in the trade market. If you mentioned that SD might take a WR in the draft, garbage was thrown. Eggs too. Well, good luck finding a trade partner who will deal you John Ross or OJ Howard for Tyrell Williams. Savvy owners sold the stock last month.

I'm sure Tyrell Williams' agent is NOT thrilled about the Chargers selection haha. Did you read the previous post? How can someone knock the Chargers for taking Mike Williams -- it's lunacy. Philip Rivers wasn't sitting at home saying, "Please don't draft a WR, please, anything but a wide receiver. I have Tyrell and we make sweet music together!"

My only real point is that I bet against UDFAs every time and it always turns out that there are 100 Brandon Colemans for every Miles Austin. But it's a point best served to non Tyrell owners because the Cultists this time around are even crazier than the Rawls Sect last year.

[acclizal]

I'm not that nervous about Keenan. Last year I traded DT for Keenan and a 2017 second which ended up being the 2.4 during a complete blow it up rebuild. (Team now in sig).

I think in that offense both Keenan and Williams can thrive Philip Rivers is an aggressive passer that can most def support 2 WR's within his offense. The bigger hit IMO is the secondary receivers on the team.

If Williams is lining up on the outside taking the opponents #1 CB while Keenan is being put in motion dictating matchups and picking on lesser CB's I think he can have a strong season.

Nobody should have nor should they be taking Keenan as their fantasy teams WR1 IMO his injury history should have been enough for that. But for savvy dynasty owners that have him as their WR3 - 4 on a competitive team really shouldn't be worrying. I think this turn into a situation where his startup value may take a hit but existing leagues again on competing teams I can't imagine trading him just because Williams is in town.

Anyway just my 2 cents

[Tsunami]

I think Keenan Allen is in the same category as Alshon Jeffery (and maybe Moncrief?): injury is the only thing holding them back. If anything Allen has proven himself more than those other two. The Chargers throw so much that there will be plenty of balls to go around, and Allen struggled at times against top corners so this might even help him. Rivers is good enough that I'm not worried. And unlike most of you with rookie fever I don't automatically assume Williams is going to be great.

[AlbertaPrime]

Keenan owner here, and a little salty this morning, as I was hoping Williams would land anywhere besides LA. Question for other Keenan owners...

Would you draft Williams and potentially double dip with him and Keenan? I've got 1.5 so there is a chance that he may be there.

[skip]

I know there are plenty of people on this board with massive mancrushes on Keenan, but realistically I don't see how anyone can just continue to abandon logic in his defense. We can argue all day here over the rationale behind the selection of Mike Williams by the Chargers.

Let's assume for a moment that Keenan was the best WR on his team. Let's also assume that he stays completely healthy in 2017. The addition of Mike Williams is not a good thing for him...nor for any receiver in that offense (including Mike Williams*). There is little doubt that the Chargers are a pass first team, but when it comes to Rivers he likes to spread the ball around. This has always been the case.

There are plenty of people on here who are liking to trash on Tyrell Williams because he only produced because of injuries to other weapons (along with the UDFA argument). News flash! Keenan only produced in 2015 because of injuries to other weapons. Unless injuries strike the team again, Keenan's targets are guaranteed to drop which is a huge problem for his production because his primary asset is efficiency on high volume.