Reuben Foster sliding perfectly into 2nd

[bruiser]

Foster as any sort of example, given he was/is viewed as a top 10 talent

Nope. I can't think of any Off-LOS LB being worth a top 10 pick. Economics don't support it. You know the difference between top 10 and 11-32 obviously (concerning the option year). Any player going in the top 10 is exempt from this argument because of the difference. I am specifically talking about those borderline 1sts. They will get tied up (without negotiations) for an extra two years.

My 21yr old self would bet on myself in that scenario.

[FiremanEd]

You can argue top 10 pick, but the top 10 talent is a pretty accepted opinion. I don't think a player at that level is thinking 'forget the ceiling, let's see if I can drop far enough.' That's not bettering on yourself, that's shooting your self in the foot.

I'm not going to say that there aren't any potential one offs that apply this logic, but it wasn't Foster, and it isn't a prevelant and common practice.

Ultimately you will believe what you want, as will I, and neither side will be able to prove correct, so it is what it is. It's an interesting concept if nothing else. Would take some balls to take the approach though in my opinion.

[bruiser]

Ok, but Foster is not a top 10 pick. That was never my evaluation... I don't recall anyone believing he was. If you are not a lock for the top 10, then your best 'bet' is to fall.

If we keep saying that nothing is guaranteed in the NFL, then the best bet is negotiating your veteran contract ASAP! 5th year option is UBER-cheap for picks 1.11-1.32

[clarion contrarion]

A. Wagner v. Hightower is relevant because this is 2017. The current CBA rules have only begun to take effect. See the difference between DE v. OLB as a position group (cost) for more.

B. If you are taking a poll of FFB players as to which player is better than you will likely be on the wrong side of history. I love Wagner, but he is a piece in a large defense. Hightower is a larger piece in his defense.

C. If everyone keeps using the argument that "players rarely make it to a 2nd contract" then why would a 5yr rookie deal be more appealing than a potential 3yr rookie deal?

D. We are talking about the ability to negotiate for your market value, right? So, Bobby Wagner got to do that 2 years before Hightower b/c of the CBA rules. Advantage: 2nd rd Wagner

I am not fashioning this idea as my own. It was reported as a loophole, and I believe it to be true.

a) THE CURRENT cba has been in effect since 2011
b) wagner 3 all pro bowl 2 time all pro - hightower 1 pro bowl no all pro selections still hightower more $ already , more $ still guaranteed
advantage 1st round
c) 3 year rookie deals are pretty much for udfa and even then they can be tendered for peanuts as opposed to hitting the open market E.G. isaiah crowell offered less than gillislee
d) 2nd rounders still are on the books for a 4 year deal , the hawks tore up his deal with a year left to reward him and because they were gonna have to pay russell wilson the next year I think ; so it was prudent to not have to pay everyone in a single year.
He ( wagner) would have a 1 year advantage advantage as a 2nd rounder thus getting the franchise tag as opposed to the 5th year tender that risk however far outweighs the lack of guaranteed iron and signing bonus $ , 1 other thing if a 1st rounder is close to validating his team may want to pay him to continue the path his team is taking or to justify the draft selection a 2nd will get no such benefit .

your posts are very interesting I just think you are grasping at this idea.

[bruiser]

3year rookie deals are pretty much for udfa ...... 2nd rounders still are on the books for a 4 year deal....

your posts are very interesting I just think you are grasping at this idea.

Any team may negotiate an extension with a player on rookie contract after 3 years of service. Essentially, all players want to do this... not just 2nd rounders.

This is not my idea, it was reported somewhere (can't find the article). I am a salary cap/contracts aficionado. I tune in to these types of advantages, as my leagues follow the NFL CBA rules for 5th year options.

[lukkynumber13]

Ok, but Foster is not a top 10 pick. That was never my evaluation... I don't recall anyone believing he was. If you are not a lock for the top 10, then your best 'bet' is to fall.

Gotta heartily disagree with you on this one, Bruiser. He most definitely has been talked about, and is STILL being talked about, as a potential top 10 pick, and a top 3-5 pure TALENT in this draft. He has been mocked to Cincy at 9 and the Jets at 6 quite a bit.

[ninotoreS]

If any teams look at Foster and think he has the potential to be a Kuechly or Wagner or Lewis caliber off-LoS linebacker on their defense, you bet your butt they'll see that as worth a top 10 pick.

[bruiser]

Lukky, mocksters don't know any more than FFBallers. The economics of drafting Off-LOS LBs inside the top 10 is poor. Foster in the top 10 would be a waste of a pick by a franchise likely earning their top pick (annually).

The best value from a franchise standpoint would be to take elite talent in the 11-32 range. This is where you get best use of the 5th year option.

[lukkynumber13]

Lukky, mocksters don't know any more than FFBallers. The economics of drafting Off-LOS LBs inside the top 10 is poor. Foster in the top 10 would be a waste of a pick by a franchise likely earning their top pick (annually).

The best value from a franchise standpoint would be to take elite talent in the 11-32 range. This is where you get best use of the 5th year option.

I agree it would be silly for Cincy or the Jets to take an ILB in the top 10, but people that do have some real info are projecting that. And I'm not talking about the 20-year old dork in his mom's basement writing a blog and doing a Fanspeak mock draft, I'm referring to the McShays, Kipers, Mayocks, etc who do (contrary to popular opinion) know more than most diehard fantasy footballers in terms of what NFL teams think.

I know the mainstream guys get mocked a lot (no pun intended), but they're not idiots. They miss and project wrongly like anyone.