O.J. Howard Thread

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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby JJDubya » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:21 pm

onetwothree wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:55 am
clarion contrarion wrote: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:16 am My problem with drafting a TE so highly is IF he hits what is his ceiling and what is his future value ? IF everything goes just right and he lands in a good situation with the right qb what is his ceiling ? Is he gronk or jimmy graham ? is he jordan reed or travis kelce ? Well if you draft him that highly he has to be or you left value on the table . All the previously mentioned TE were much later rookie picks , even hunter henry last season was taken in the 20s in the 1st 3 leagues I checked on last year. Last year's class was mediocre to be kind compared to this class .
While I agree with your overall point, couldn't you say this about the other players that would be drafted around that spot? What do you need a Kamara or Godwin to be to make them worth that spot? Is the upside of a Howard and his potential to be a TE1 higher than the likelihood that the RB or WR taken at 1.07+ can be more than a RB2/WR2?

Once you get past that 1st group of players (Fournette, Cook, Davis, Williams, McCaffrey, Mixon), how much value are you really losing going after Howard? Maybe Ross ahead of him? Things will change once landing spots are determined but Howard seems like one of the safer prospects with a solid floor and a pretty high ceiling. I don't know how many of the other guys in that draft range have similar possible outcomes.
I may be cherry picking here, but Michael Thomas and Jordan Howard could be had at around the 1.07/8 and low 2s, respectively, last year. Their value is pretty much through the roof now. Hunter Henry, who some had pegged as a top 5 dynasty TE before this class was anointed, was drafted in the late second and you could probably get a late first for him today, maybe a little higher. Going back another season, David Johnson was drafted in the late second and is now the top talent at 1.01 to some people.

The fact remains that there have only been 2 (and really, 1) TEs that have broken out to be monster talents at their position that had people considering them in the first round of startups or being worth the "3 firsts" litmus that we consider most "studs" to fetch. That happens much more often (yearly) with WR and RB. Guys come out of nowhere in year one and their value skyrockets in year two.

The TEs in this class may be athletic freaks, but they need to be used properly, consistently and benefit from being top red zone options in the passing game on their team (let's face it, a TE that doesn't score TDs is merely meh). OJ could be a tremendous fit in Cleveland, become their main RZ weapon and the next Gronk. I have to think that his abilities won't translate into fantasy production for at least a year or two, but again that ENTIRELY DEPENDS on how good the team around him (and particularly, QB) is. The best bet for immediate production is grabbing a guy drafted by a great team who finds himself at the top of the depth chart, not the guy with the super high draft pedigree who's mired on a terrible team with minimal red zone targets.
Last edited by JJDubya on Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby btv802 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:36 pm

Yeah that is serious cherry picking but not an invalid point. Drafting OJ is definitely not swinging for the fences.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby clarion contrarion » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:37 pm

ask the people who drafted ebron instead of landry or obj or arob. Ebron has been a colossal disappointment but I wonder how would ebron be perceived if he went to a team that had brady or brees or peyton .I have loved howard from the 1st time I watched him play at bama but his prowess at blocking could end up being a detriment as much as an asset if he goes to a team with a shaky Oline. Heath Miller was a damned fine player but he is thought of in a far different light than many in his peer group because he was the 6th OLineman on some terrible units , so instead of running down the seams catching balls and being on video game covers he was grinding away on 5techs & edge rushers. If howard goes to a poor situation think of the difference between denver orange julius and jville julius . If I get denver thomas awesome but if I get jax thomas then 1:7 or 1:8 only compounds the frustration . Hey draft him where you think you should but if he takes 3 years to get where he can be it should shock no one . If he doesn't end up an all- timer or at least a perennial pro bowler that equates to a blown pick.
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby TheChicken » Tue Apr 18, 2017 12:55 pm

Damn, I've blown all my first round picks since whenever.

Thankful for my 2nd round OBJ and D Johnson picks!
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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby pvillebiker » Tue Apr 18, 2017 5:13 pm

Pre-NFL draft of course, but it's interesting how close OJ is to Mike Williams, 'least in a TE Premium league. I figured Williams would be way ahead of Howard, even in TE Premium leagues.

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Re: O.J. Howard, Where would you take him?

Postby stoneghost28 » Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:04 pm

lukkynumber13 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:52 pm
dm1129 wrote: Mon Apr 17, 2017 7:08 pm I look at it a little different. I have Howard above all WRs in this class for the simple reason that there has not been a TE prospect like him for a long time(Ebron is not close) while WRs such as Davis and Williams can be found in nearly every year's draft. The reality is that in most classes, Davis and Williams would not be the top rated WRs. My belief is 3-5 years from now, many owners will look back and wonder how they missed on Howard.
I promise I'm not being a troll. I'm sincerely intrigued by this statement... Do you just feel they're both average prospects, or actual bust candidates, or what? I've not heard anyone say this about either WR, let alone Davis.
Personally I think that's a reasonable take.

In the past ten years you had these guys ranked tops:
'07: Calvin Johnso: Miles better than either of them as a prospect
'08: Horror show WR class: Both Davis, Godwin and Williams would all be rated ahead of all of them
'09: Crabtree was rated a bit higher than they were, no point in discussing DHB pick that was based on senility more than anything.
'10 Dez Bryant Consensus #1 fell because of a gigantic collection of b.s. Way, way better perceived prospect than Davis or Williams but was radioactive due to off the field issues and terrified GM's and area scouts when it came to his familial background.
'11: Julio and AJ were rated miles upon miles better than Davis or Williams or Godwin.
'12: Blackmon would have been rated above both.
'13: Another horror show class like '08, Davis and Williams would look as good or better than these guys.
'14: Watkins, Evans, OBJR etc were miles better prospects at the time and now.
'15: Cooper was miles ahead, and White was viewed as significantly superior to what you hear from scouts about Davis and Williams and Godwin.

So for me, other than '08, and '13, you've got 8 of the past 10 classes producing a more impressive #1, and often a more impressive #2 guy.

I don't think Davis and Williams compare, indeed Godwin is beginning to overtake Williams on quite a few boards. I like Davis a lot, but I think he comes across more like the Crabtree/Blackmon types in terms of valuation, but not as highly as either of them.

In terms of Howard, I value him around 1.8-1.9, may have mentioned that before, but I'd rather take Njoku at 1.11 or 1.12, or Engram at 2.1ish (depending upon which position he ends up settling as). Njoku has more upside, and Engram is a locked and loaded WR prospect who may be used as a TE, and he has more upside as well. That's the problem with the Howard hype, as impressive as he is, how much better is he as a pass catching weapon than Njoku or Engram, and the answer is he isn't. I think he's a touch safer than Njoku, though considering the bare bones usage rate, that may be wrong, and w/regards to Engram, he's the most polished pass catcher you have there. All three are fantastic weapons and one prays they don't end up landing in turd sandwich situations like NYJ.

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Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby IBall2 » Mon May 08, 2017 5:49 am

Everywhere I look, people are saying there's a consensus top 6 in this rookie draft. After that there is a big tier of TE/WR/RB between 1.07 and maybe 1.12 or so.

In a 1TE league which already devalues TEs, why should I be taking OJ Howard at 1.07 instead of taking a shot at some of these second tier RB/WRs?

I've never been a big fan of drafting TEs in round 1 of rookie drafts so I've been studying players like Ross/JuJu/Kamara/Samuel/Perine and have neglected to research much on the TEs even though everybody keeps pumping them up.

On the other hand, for the people that are against TEs in the first round, why wouldn't you take OJ at 1.07?

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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby Reljac » Mon May 08, 2017 6:22 am

Not a fan of sell me on threads, because I believe you should always go with your gut. Drafting a 1st round tight end has not paid off in any of my leagues in their 10yr history.

1st round dynasty picks in my leagues:
-Kyle Rudolph
-Jermaine Gresham
-Eric Ebron

Guys taken in 2nd and later rounds:
-Aaron Hernandez
-Rob Gronkowski
-Jimmy Graham
-Tyler Eiffort
-Hunter Henry
-Travis Kelce
-Zach Ertz
-Owen Daniels
-Coby Fleener
-Dwayne Allen
-Martellus Bennett
etc. etc.
12-team Non-PPR QB, 2-RB, 3-WR, TE, K, DEF
QB: Herbert, Tanny
RB: Chubb, Stevenson, AJ Dillion
WR: AJ Brown, M Evans, M Williams, D London, C Olave, Jameson Williams, M Thomas
TE: D Njoku
K: Butker


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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby Phaded » Mon May 08, 2017 6:26 am

Don't do it.

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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby AZK » Mon May 08, 2017 6:42 am

I like Engram more in the 1st round but that's because I think he is a hybrid WR/TE that should see the field. He might take a year to see targets but he has a different skill set then most TE's. If he was classified as a WR, I think he would be right there with MW. I would have a hard time taking Howard or Njoku in the middle of the first but near the end I can see the intrigue.
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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby Weeman » Mon May 08, 2017 7:44 am

I feel that OJs all around talent is incredible. If you watch the film he looks worthy of a top TE dynasty pick, which is rare. Which is why I traded out of picks acquired 8,9. So if he fell, I wouldn't be forced to take the percieved BPA. It's fools gold IMO.

I have Hunter Henry. So getting Engram early 2nd felt great btw. Especially since he in theory should lead rookie TEs in receptions. He is more of the WR type & brought in to play that Reed/Enunwa type role for NYG. I also feel like Howard may be utilized & see the field the most as an elite blocker....but by no means is he more of a RZ threat then Evans. Therefore staying at 7 shouldn't require a thread-Just get the guy you want or trade down. I couldn't imagine the points above streaming options for Howard next yr would beat the WRs/RBs options @ 1.07.

I feel the purpose of this thread was to sell us on 1.07 being more open than most think. Well played.

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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby Goddard » Mon May 08, 2017 9:12 am

You definitely don't HAVE to take Howard with the 1.07, but in terms of talent, he's probably more talented than anyone else after the 1.06 (and maybe even some of the players in that top 6). However, I agree with you that I don't like to take TEs in the first round (especially in a 1 TE league) and you can get a guy like Butt in the 3rd who might put up just as good of numbers in a couple of years.

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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby KU Sucks » Mon May 08, 2017 10:44 am

I'm not high on Williams at all, if he is there @ 1.6; I'm going Howard instead. I like the talent, opportunity, & qb.

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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby alewilliam789 » Mon May 08, 2017 11:03 am

I agree that taking a TE in the 1st round is sketchy and he might not produce 800 yds and 10 TDs in his first year, but he's the closest thing to being a "pro-ready" TE that I have ever seen in recent Draft memory. He's a fantastic in-line blocker and has both the hands, athleticism, and route running ability to make a difference on Day 1 with a dynamic young QB like Jameis Winston.

I have 1.09 and I'm not particularly fond of the WR talent that's going to be there so for me it's either Howard or Juju Smith-Schuster
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Re: Sell me on OJ Howard at 1.07

Postby HEADBANGER » Mon May 08, 2017 11:10 am

Only league rookie draft started, I took Howard as first TE off the board at 1.9. Rather surprised he was still there. Njoko went 1.10 and Engram was excellent value at 1.13

Last year and this year this league undervalues the TE position I feel, I am higher than most.

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