Future Pick Swapping

[Madadamus]

Do you or anyone in your leagues practice this strategy? I know there are cases where you have a stacked team and you are trying to get a clear bad team's 1st, but that's a little more obvious. I am talking more along the lines of two contending teams with a little rivalry swapping picks as part of a little trash talk. It might be in good fun, but a couple of bumps up in the late 1st can be valuable.

For example, in one of my leagues, I've done this with a guy and the first time he beat be in the championship game so I moved down a spot last year. But this year, I won it and he finished 10th so I moved from 1.12 o 1.03 which is obviously huge.

I've tried doing this in other leagues but it seems like there is little interest. You could even gamble a little more and do it with two bad teams in rebuild mode if you think you have more promise and are a better owner. Going from 1.05 to 1.03 is a big difference in most years.

So what does everyone think? Is this unethical? Does it rub owners the wrong way? Or is it a calculated gamble?

[Valhalla]

Nothing wrong with two owners betting on themselves. I like it and have also done it

[jwint7910]

Great idea. When I finish my rebuild, I'm all in.

[Space Cowboy]

Wife swapping is more ethical.

[Friction]

Couple teams in my league last year kick started the trading season by trading seconds. Seemed odd as it was (at the time) a clear contender against a cellar dweller. Ended up the roles were somewhat reversed as the contender ended up dead last and the other just missed the playoffs. Ya just never know, but I thought the trade was sort of odd at first. Gives another element to what and who you root for,

[clarion contrarion]

bet 2019 1sts on the super bowl with another owner he liked the falcons , I like extra the 1st

[MARKinMI]

I've been doing this for years (or trying to) in leagues where I'm contending. You just gotta know you are going to be a clear contender through the pick window. I'd hate to swap 2019 1sts in 2017 and then decide i need to rebuild or retool in 2018 and not have my pick. Honestly I'd probably only do this with picks 1 year out.

[skip]

Perfectly ethical and a practice I have no interest in because I think "trash talk" is childish and immature.

[clarion contrarion]

In terms of trash talking in fairness skip when the browns start winning IF THE BROWNS START WINNING ? it will be more fun for you !

[Missile]

Tried it once and lost. Ended up giving my 1.04 for 1.11. It was part of a deal not straight up but deal was even otherwise. Thought we had similar teams. I had some bad luck. Probably wouldn't do it again.

[moishetreats]

They might not be forbidden, but they FEEL like side-bets to me. I don't like that. Want to put up $5? Sure. What to make the loser do something stupid? Sure. But, betting commodities that affects a league is not in the league's best interest as a prop side-bet.

Two notes: (1) I trade you player X who is ranked higher than player Y and we swap first-round picks in 2018 -- presuming, say, that your team should be worse in 2018: that is a very different scenario. Both parties are recognizing that your 2018 pick is more valuable now than mine, and that value is being reflected in a trade. This is not the same as using it as a bet for a fantasy football record.

(2) I have one league with all my college buddies. We get together every year (usually at least 8 of the ten annually, and we are literally spread out coast-to-coast, from Hawaii to California to Chicago to Florida. Last year, in fact, the guy living in SF had his flight cancelled on Friday afternoon. He paid a fee to get a red-eye that transferred in Miami -- MIAMI FROM SF!! -- to get to our Wisconsin draft live Saturday afternoon. He left less than 24 hours later. THAT'S COMMITMENT!!). It's a FUN f*ckin' league. And we drink a lot over the weekend. Don't get me wrong: we're all competitive, and we all take fantasy football seriously. But, the trash-talking and competitiveness is the joy here. If two people were to make this kind of bet (e.g., whichever one of us wins the most games this year gets the higher of our 2018 first-round picks), I'd be fine with it. Hell, I'd join in. But, that is ONLY because the league is about the trash-talking and the 20+ year competitive friendship that we have. This, though, is the exception rather than the standard.

[Vcize]

Two guys in one of my leagues years ago used to trash talk a lot and swapped picks every year for about a 5 year stretch. Was pretty fun to watch.

[skip]

They might not be forbidden, but they FEEL like side-bets to me.

So I offer 1st round pick to you for yours and a trade is made. It's nothing really more than a "gamble" like any other trade. Isn't the goal of any trade to come out better than what you gave up?

[moishetreats]

They might not be forbidden, but they FEEL like side-bets to me.

So I offer 1st round pick to you for yours and a trade is made. It's nothing really more than a "gamble" like any other trade. Isn't the goal of any trade to come out better than what you gave up?

I get it. And logically you are correct: if I trade you player X and you trade me player Y, then each of us is "gambling" that the player that we get is better. That gamble, though, is based on player production. I also get that, by swapping our first-round picks, we're each gambling on player production: we each think that our players will perform better over the course of the year (as measured by, say, standings). I get all that intellectually.

Swapping picks based on finish, though, FEELS different. It feels more like a prop bet than a trade. To me, it's one of those things that are okay by the letter but violate the spirit.

I'm fine being in the minority. And, if this came up in any league in which I am the commissioner, I would put it to a majority vote and not make a commish ruling. Just me, but I don't like the way it feels. It also has a measurable impact on trading. You and I might now not make trades during the season, or I might trade light with an opponent or two to try to get you to lose. I know that none of those would be illegal -- and would likely just be foolish on my end. The point, though, is that you and I might now play our season with a slightly different goal in mind than others, and that could impact things ever-so-slightly. I don't like the idea that a prop bet between you and me could influence the league in other ways -- the law of unintended consequences.

[skip]

You and I might now not make trades during the season, or I might trade light with an opponent or two to try to get you to lose. I know that none of those would be illegal -- and would likely just be foolish on my end. The point, though, is that you and I might now play our season with a slightly different goal in mind than others, and that could impact things ever-so-slightly. I don't like the idea that a prop bet between you and me could influence the league in other ways -- the law of unintended consequences.

Wouldn't this exist anyway? Suppose I deal you my 2018 1st round pick for a Cameron Meridith. Are you going to make decisions on trading, etc. based on the ownership of that pick? It still has the same inherent outcome as the pick swap does.

Or suppose I trade you Evans and my first for OBJ and your first. The players are effectively a push so the result is still the pick swap. Is there the same problem with this trade?

I'm not defending the action because as I mentioned earlier it isn't something I would do based on the OP's reasoning. I'm just not sure why there is an issue here for two owners that want to make such a trade.