The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

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The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby zounder » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:15 pm

Before reading his post, please examine these arguments by Adam Harstad and Brian Malone (Jules.)

This conversation is what ultimately led me to this study. I chose to look at waivers because I feel like both Brian and Adam have it right that trading is high variance and that being good at it (as in, going positive) at it is required for it to be worth it. It would also be insanely difficult to use my methodology for trades (it was already pretty tough for waiver claims.)

Before I begin, let me clarify that no one here is arguing that either trading or waiver claims are worthless. The idea is to determine which route is more dependable to dynasty success.
We can think of landing an impact player off waivers as increasing the total value of our dynasty roster. We want to determine how expected value of this nature can be gained via waivers. Then, we can decide if we think we can do better via trading.

Methodology

To calculate expected value gained via waivers, I used my own dynasty league, which is 5 years old (2012-2016.) We have 12 teams, with two teams having owner transitions for a total of 14 owners over the 5 years. Our roster size is 26, non-IDP, but includes kickers and defenses. Most people roster only one of each so there’s roughly 24 spots deep when considering waivers. I think that is about average for dynasty leagues, so hopefully this study is relevant to most of you.

I went back and counted, for each owner, how many total adds/claims they made that we not for kickers or defenses. I then collaborated with my leaguemates to decide which players fit my definition of “hits.” It’s obviously arbitrary and incredibly difficult to assign a proper definition to “hit” but we settled on a claim/add being a “hit” if that player had 2nd round rookie value or higher at some point while the player was still on your roster. I then calculate “success rate” for each owner, which is total hits divided by total claims/adds.

Results

Image
(I am owner 8, by the way.)

The success rate of all owners with a non-incredibly-small number of transactions range from 2.5% to about 7%. Those values all with within a range of less than 5%, with a standard deviation of 1.21%, which means there’s very low variance here. I also counted “major hits” which are defined by players who ended up with lasting high dynasty value. It turned out there were only four of these total in five years!) This further demonstrates the low variance here compared to trades.

Image

This may be obvious, but the more active one is on the waiver wire, the more total hits they have. I think it’s safe to associate more activity with more research, so it looks like the research pays off. Let’s look at success rate next.

Image

Well, this paints an entirely different story for success rate. Just to be sure, let’s remove the owners whose sample size is too small.

Image

The p-value for this correlation is 0.38. This means that there’s not enough evidence here to suggest that success rate increases with more activity (and presumably more research.) So there’s still merit to being active on the waiver wire since you want to have more hits, but expectations must be tempered because success rate is fairly constant regardless of how active/informed one is. I suppose that makes sense when you think about the nature of waivers.

However, there’s another interesting result here. The average waiver wire success rate is awfully small! (Now, before anyone says “Well you guys must all be bad at waivers,” let me remind you that even in the worst leagues, the Tyreek Hills and Cam Merediths end up on a roster eventually. This study is not about how efficient we are with our waiver dollars. It’s about how often these guys show up on the waiver wire, and what kinds of teams usually end up with them.) The numbers listed in the table are across five years, but on a per season scale, the expected hit rate for owners is only 0.66 hits per season. Using a minimum transaction amount of forty only raises this number to 0.84 hits per season. Even the most successful owner in our league averages less than two hits per season.

Conclusion

On the surface, the low expected success rate of waiver claims and adds (along with the low variance) go against Brian’s argument. However, before to jump to any conclusions, let’s address Brian’s two main arguments in support of the dependability of waivers. First, he identified the consistency to outperform your leaguemates on waivers if you’re informed and active. My study does, in fact, support this argument (see the first scatter plot) though that argument falls apart if everyone in the league is active and informed, but I suppose how realistic that is leads to a whole other debate. He also argued that the difficulty of consistently winning trades makes that route less dependable. Given the high floor and low variance of waiver success, I think he’s right that relying on outsmarting your teammates via waivers a more dependable (and viable) route to a guaranteed value increase vs. other options, like trading and the draft. But ultimately, given how little one can expect to profit from waivers on a yearly basis, is it not a dependable (or viable) route to increasing the value of your roster enough to lead to dynasty success.

Challenges/Issues

It’s worth reminding everyone here that “hits” is arbitrary and that I’m sure there are some waiver claims that can push a team to a championship without ever being worth a 2nd round rookie pick, and those players wouldn’t have been counted here. Furthermore, being more generous with what I call a “hit” or doing this study with a league with fewer roster spots would lead to higher success rates, which raises the floor of expected value gained via waivers, which would impact my conclusion. Lastly, even though the league is 5 season old, it’s still a small sample! Some owners were only around for a short while, and some owners that have been around all five years still aren’t very active. I would like to see a study like this done across multiple leagues.
Last edited by zounder on Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby maxhyde » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:26 pm

Deeper leagues waiver success decreases some...

Trading is a more targetted approach so you end up with a player you like so even if you lose value you don't necessarily "lose"
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby MEuRaH » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:33 pm

Pretty awesome read and you covered everything that I would have mentioned.

Something not mentioned is value lost via waivers? For example, you could have added 8 "hits" via waivers, but did you drop anyone of importance in the process? Thus negating your "hit" factor.

Plus the number of owners & roster sizes will dictate some of the success.

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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby zounder » Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:53 pm

Just realized I had two of the plots in the wrong order. Fixed now.
MEuRaH wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2017 2:33 pm
Something not mentioned is value lost via waivers? For example, you could have added 8 "hits" via waivers, but did you drop anyone of importance in the process? Thus negating your "hit" factor.
Yeah, I thought about this too, and there were numerous instances in which owners dropped players too early. In fact, there was a famous hot potato game played between me and another owner adding/dropping CJA for months before he broke out. It would definitely lower the floor for expected waiver add value. But I will say that I think, given the nature of most waiver adds, the chances of major losses are lower for waivers than with trades, since, presumably, most adds are paired with dropping the lowest value asset on your roster, whereas that's not the same with trades. Thus, loss via trades should be more frequent and of more magnitude.
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby dlf_jules » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:05 pm

Very nice. Thanks for writing it up.

I'm more interested in total hits than hit rate, because that's what drives the value of your team. But if you're counting total hits, then you definitely have to account for MEuRaH's point about dropping players who end up having value.
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby dlf_jules » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:07 pm

I think to do a robust study of waivers or trades, you'd need to scrape transaction logs from MFL.

Not only do I not know how to do that, I don't know if it can be (reasonably easily) done.
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby zounder » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:20 pm

dlf_jules wrote: Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:05 pm Very nice. Thanks for writing it up.

I'm more interested in total hits than hit rate, because that's what drives the value of your team. But if you're counting total hits, then you definitely have to account for MEuRaH's point about dropping players who end up having value.
I would be very interested in seeing what happens to total hits when most or all owners are very active. I think that would result in the most meaningful data. And yes, the fact I had to parse through my league's transaction logs was unfortunate. As you stated, a better study would require quickly parsing through logs in multiple leagues. Thanks for reading!
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby zounder » Tue Jan 10, 2017 3:28 pm

One other thought re: MEuRaH's post: If it turns out, upon studying waiver value loss via drops, that many active teams are losing out on lots of value, it may only be due to the fact that they are active in the first place. So the only solution would be to reduce activity... Which would reduce your hits. So I guess the question becomes: Does being active lead to a net positive on hits gained vs. hits dropped? Well, the only way you're gonna go negative there is if you drop a player on your initial roster that ends up being a hit, because you can only at worst break even after that, because in order to drop a future hit, you have to pick them up. So I think that for the purposes of this study, it doesn't matter how often people are dropping future hits. What matters is how often they end up picking them up and sticking with them. If they were dropping them too early, that would be reflected in the total hit number.

So I guess what I am saying here, is that I am beginning to think that dropped hits already accounted for in total hits. Because I were an active owner but I was dropping future hits too soon, my hit total would be lower.
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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby Weeman » Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:17 am

This is almost too hard to measure.

We all pick up players, but if you added a player like jacquizz rodgers he could've won you games in a pinch & not be considered a dynasty hit once Martin came back. So I'd consider a weekly streamer off ww who puts up rb1 or wr1 a hit. I'm not sure how this is represented in your data.

Further i'll give one example.... because I'd also say a ww pickup that puts up more points then your starter is a hit. Wk12 i put in Tannehill over Bortles, Luck is out. Thill puts up 36... Bortles 25 points & I win by 8 points. I drop Tannehill next week. It's a hit imo because he put up 11 points more than my best available starter.

Adding on WW hits can be tricky if you picked up solid prospects like Tajae, Ty Mongomery as one owner in my league did, but he also dropped Tyreek Hill. One can argue he lost value. If the goal of the study is to see were one gained optimal value, not counting losses seems to be a drawback.

I also traded ww pickups all year. I picked up Mlee, Mariota, Humphries, Tyrell Williams, Ryan Matthews, Gabriel, DAdams, Algholor. Considering the trade success that is attached to WW pickups skews the results. Or if I lost every trade it distorts results further because imo. While a trade loss is a loss. Trading a free ww pickup for rookie picks is always a win.

It may not help overall team value a ww hit but the purpose is to win games. A weekly streamer hitting his mark is a hit imo. The guy who gets Jordan Howard this year in my league. Drops Dgb a 6thrd startup pick. Trades to me M.Thomas & what is now 1.2 for Jmatt. So he won the WW, lost on a trade, lost on a startup pick. But he nailed weekly streamers like Enunwa, fiedo, Jrodgers, Kerley, Smith Sr. Today it's easy to say Jordan Howard & Enunwa are hits, & everyone else is a bust. But they really weren't. They carried him to playoffs over what most would consider better underperforming rosters.

FF has to deal with informed owners & a bit of Luck. If your in a league with ppl who are scrappy on the ww then goodluck. If your in a league a fee trade happy ppl you might be able to get value. situation & complete context are vital to which one builds the most value over time.

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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby Servo » Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 am

I wouldn't consider picking up a surefire starter like Tannehill a piece of this study. My biggest drop was releasing Enunwa right before the season, and I remember that I didn't have a good feeling about it....and thanks to DLF I heard about Cam Meredith first and could have scooped him but somehow forgot to act....I guess I was able to salvage it somewhat with picking Kenny Britt/Inman (in a shortsighted view).

I imagine he's referring to finding those players that become legitimate catalysts (at least for the year at hand): Meredith, Tyrell, Thielen, Rawls (2015), Tyreek, Montgomery, Crowder (2015), Enunwa, Gabriel, JJ Nelson, Snead (2015), maybe John Brown (2015), Aiken (2015) Ware/West (2015)

The next part of this study could possibly be, do any other these names truly have staying power? Or how have other top waiver players fared in the next year or two of their careers.

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Re: The More Dependable Route to Dynasty Success: Trades or Waivers?

Postby zounder » Wed Jan 11, 2017 11:18 am

Rowsdower wrote: Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:02 amI imagine he's referring to finding those players that become legitimate catalysts (at least for the year at hand): Meredith, Tyrell, Thielen, Rawls (2015), Tyreek, Montgomery, Crowder (2015), Enunwa, Gabriel, JJ Nelson, Snead (2015), maybe John Brown (2015), Aiken (2015) Ware/West (2015)
This list is pretty accurate, though some of these players were drafted in our rookie draft and held until their value increased, and thus they are not eligible. I can release the full list for each franchise if people want, but I don't know how valuable that would be, mostly because each league is different. For example, my league starts 1 QB and 1 TE, so those positions carry considerably less value than leagues that start multiple of those positions, or superflex etc. One name I did not count, for example, was Cameron Brate, whose value increased near the start of the season. he would not have fetched a 2nd in our league even at that time. But in other leagues, he might have. Just another example of the arbitrary nature of this process.

I will say, though, that even if I was more generous in my parameters, I don't think we'd see any of the correlations would change much.
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