HOF league discussion

[thebeast]

He is only worth a late first when Fournette is out, which is the problem with your conclusion. I've seen this thinking end up poorly for owners of these guys time and again. Ben Tate comes to mind, and more recently Tevin Coleman. Owners were convinced that Coleman would take the job from Freeman, then he just had to wait until Freeman moved on in FA, now it's just hold until Coleman moves on, yet in the meantime, he's being outplayed by a rookie... My point is not that Yeldon is Coleman, but that the wait and see approach rarely works. Sell a career handcuff for all you can get when his value is at its highest, which is where Yeldons value is right now (since Fournette was drafted). I would suggest owners move Yeldon for pick 20 or earlier. I would rather take a shot on getting a guy who is a weekly starter for my team and end up with a complete bust vs having a guy who comes in and out of relevance due to injury who is otherwise too volatile to start except in the deepest of leagues.

However I am not talking about every player, so that does not apply here. If you do not believe in a player long-term, then yeah an owner should get what they can for a player. This really applies only to guys who are

(a) young
(b) had a high draft pedigree (for RBs a 2nd Round draft pick is pretty high)
(c) have actually done something over their first few years.
(d) that you believe in

If you did not believe in Yeldon you either (a) do not own him right now or (b) picked him up cheaply enough off of an impatient owner that you can sell and make a profit or (c) got him as part of an orphan. But rather if you as an owner believe in Yeldon - and that is who I am talking to - the owners who actually believe in Yeldon (or Coleman or Mike Williams or whomever their young guy that has produced - just not at the level the consensus impatient owner requires) - then this is where it applies. Ergo the title of my post.

No dynasty approach works perfectly - but what does NOT work - is selling low on guys you believe in to get another guy, who you'd have to sell even lower on in 2-3 years.

I think it is a bad idea if you draft a player with a draft pick, they actually produce something when they get even limited opportunities, and then you move the guy

Now if you see a guy in the 2nd round of a rookie draft that you believe in more than you do in your share of Coleman/Yeldon then go right ahead and trade that player for the rookie you believe in. But to sell a player with past production and future opportunities for a good deal less than you originally spent is not good dynasty imho.

Like I said - if you are at the draft itself - and you see a guy you believe in - for example I sold Parker in a 2017 rookie draft to draft JuJu Smith-Schuster - that is a good move. Selling a guy while you are in a rebuild that is young and you believe in for a random 2nd does not usually help your team.

That is exactly how long-term you bleed value. Draft a pedigree guy you believe in at 1.07-1.10 - 2-3 years go by and he has had production, but is not a world beater or proven to be a locked starter on your team and then you sell for a late 2nd - the odds the new guy you take randomly will actually even make it as far as the guy you drafted a couple of years ago is less than the odds the guy you own will repeat his production.

Maybe you get lucky - but you can also get lucky on later picks if you do your homework and improve your odds - and you can get those picks without selling out assets who could easily have long-term production value on your roster.

I know because I have 6 shares of Yeldon on teams where I held him for a couple of years and now he is a part of the reason why that team is 5-1 or 6-0. I know this method works - because it has worked for my teams time & time again. It is exactly why I am not selling Landry to owners in DLF HOF for a late 1st - because Landry (like Yeldon) is young enough and will be around to help your/my team when you come out the other side of the rebuild.

Another example Tevin Coleman was mentioned. I personally am not that high on Coleman and given a choice between Yeldon or Coleman, I'd take Yeldon every day. Despite that - I would easily argue Coleman could/should be worth a late 1st to the owners that believe in him. I own like 1 Coleman share amongst all my rosters and I know I would not sell Coleman - despite not being uber high on the guy - for less than an early 2nd if I was in a rebuild.

I repeat - this is for rebuilding owners who believe in their guy(s). He is young, he will get other opportunities beyond this current one. Guys with a good draft pedigree and who actually produce at the NFL level get multiple chances.

Yes you have to be willing to swing & miss on players - because home runs do happen. But you do not swing on pitches that are obvious balls out of the zone - that is an easy way to strike out when you could have at least gotten on base and put yourself in scoring position. Owning Yeldon or a Coleman or whomever you BELIEVE in - will put you in that position. Selling for less than they are worth is not.

And obviously contenders will tell you that he is only worth X because they are trying to buy him off you.

Sorry man, your window to sell Yeldon high just got slammed shut with the acquisition of Carlos Hyde, at least for the moment. If you're a real believer now is the time to buy low (if you think it's low). I do hope others sold high while they could though.

[ArrylT]

Sorry man, your window to sell Yeldon high just got slammed shut with the acquisition of Carlos Hyde, at least for the moment. If you're a real believer now is the time to buy low (if you think it's low). I do hope others sold high while they could though.

Exactly - for the moment.

I, like many experienced owners, do not panic over short term changes. Long term this changes very little for Yeldon because it was not likely he would stick with the Jaguars after his rookie deal expires this year. He still represents a solid hold and should be a useful asset for rebuilders.

In fact this news means it is less likely Yeldon owners will sell because the market dried up - so if they hold they'll benefit from the next opportunity. And I would be very surprised if there was not another opportunity.

Either he leaves the Jaguars (most likely), or Hyde leaves the Jaguars, or Fournette leaves the Jaguars this off-season. In other words something is going to change again in the next 4-6 months.

And also - just to clarify - I have sent ZERO offers to owners in DLF (or any league actually) involving Yeldon since that aborted deal early in September.

I agree that it is good time to buy low.

[Plank]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pBhbE0FCnk

[ArrylT]

Back from vacation - will hopefully be able to catch up on game recaps later this week.

Meanwhile happy to announce that I earned my first win.

[ArrylT]

DLF HOF Week VII Results

nation31 137.05 knotts4372 76.85

nation31 sliced through all the knots his opponent threw at him with ease - almost doubling knotts4372 in the process and causing knotts to announce a firesale.

Seventy5 109.70 Dookmariot 86.55

Owners that refuse to make moves to win get stuck in paralysis as seen here - Dook had Seventy5 on the ropes with Gordon giving him 0 - but was frozen in fear at the idea of taking a risk to win - and so lost instead. Rumours that Dook & Jeff Fisher are related have yet to be denied.

thebeast 87.65 JFever 64.60

With JFevermania in full force and JFever showing it could be possible to go from rebuilder to contender in the same season - it would have been understandable if thebeast had pulled a Dookmariot (and froze) but instead thebeast roared to life and took down JFever faster than you could say #Gronksmash.

steeveb 145.05 TitusYoungsLawyer 127.05

steeveb continues to rebound from an early season malaise and knocks off a hard fighting TYlawyer.

auggiedoggies 131.20 Jules 97.15

Who needs a QB when you can call on Wonderdog to give the rest of your team super production? Damn!

DLF_JaronF 122.60 maxhyde 72.90

Mahomes helps carry DLF_JaronF to a 2 game win streak and puts maxhyde on notice that they have yet to escape the shadow of Dr. Jekyll.

Plank 141.65 ericanadian 64.40

Arr who goes there? Just the greatest fantasy pirate of all time - Plank the Putrid! Watch him convince ericanadian to walk the rotten plank even before his team destroys ericanadians!

ArrylT 124.25 sloth8u 36.70

Not sure who celebrated more - ArrylT for earning their first ever DLF win or sloth8u for setting the current 2018 record for lowest score.

[Dookmarriot]

DLF HOF Week VII Results

Seventy5 109.70 Dookmariot 86.55

Owners that refuse to make moves to win get stuck in paralysis as seen here - Dook had Seventy5 on the ropes with Gordon giving him 0 - but was frozen in fear at the idea of taking a risk to win - and so lost instead. Rumours that Dook & Jeff Fisher are related have yet to be denied.

For the last time you're never gonna get a 1st for Yeldon.

[ArrylT]

DLF HOF Week VIII Results

auggiedoggies 144.75 DLF_JaronF 109.55

Once you get ahold of WonderDogs phone number - why wouldnt you use it more than once? Next time though listen to Mighty Mouse when he tells you to start Lamar Miller over Michael Crabtree.

Seventy5 155.25 ericanadian 79.40

The mark of a true champion is not in how much they win by or how many games they win - but by how they win against inferior opponents. S5 showed grace & courtesy by not starting Ebron, Watkins or Watson but still gave ericanadian much respect by ensuring his team did not take their lightly.

steeveb 104.40 maxhyde 63.50

There is a reason why they play the games. On paper most owners would choose Gronkowski over Brate, and Josh Gordon over Njoku. And they'd have been correct to do so. But does it matter when your opponent has Boyd & White combine for 50+ points? Not really since neither Gronk nor Gordon much less any of maxhydes team saw north of 15 points.

nation31 132.35 sloth8u 55.30

I'll let the mathematicians amongs us tell us by how much % sloth improved his score over last week. The rest of us? Well we'll be busy at the pub drinking & admiring the points put up by Gurley & Mack for nation31.

thebeast 109.15 Dookmariot 95.95

Predators have killer instincts. So does thebeast it seems. Thebeast did not need to be told twice that his opponent was still paralyzed with fear (of winning) and went out and took a risk. thebeast acquired an asset at a bargain price, put that asset into play and helped DookFisher continue their spiral of mediocrity.

Plank 161.40 Jules 125.80

We already know Plank is the greatest pirate in DLF. Some would say that Adams, Evans & Thielen could all be argued to be in the running for the #1 WR in dynasty. And they might not be wrong. It takes a pirate to find good treasure and Plank has found his treasure and has set a course to earn more treasure.

TitusYoungsLawyer 90.8 JFever 70.8

Lots of people dislike lawyers - but one thing people dislike even more? red tape aka bureaucracy. The secret to TYLs win? He showed JFever all the paperwork JFever had to fill out to change his designation from pretender back to contender.

KNOTTS4372 103.70 ArrylT 85.30

Maybe that fire sale was a rumour and was just a means for knotts to re-ignite the passion of his players. Considering how efficiently ArrylT played (97%) it is impressive how knotts was able to inspire his team to victory one week after rumours of a massive teardown were reported.

[ArrylT]

For the last time you're never gonna get a 1st for Yeldon.

Actually that has little to do with Yeldon and I have no issues with any owner who prefer a 13-16 pick to Yeldon. I am just using you as an easy target as the poster owner for teams in all leagues who choose to do nothing rather than try to go for the glory.

See your trade history in 2018 as evidence below:

1. Dookmariot / TitusYoung'sLawyer Trade
Dookmariot gave up Roberts, Michael DET TE
TitusYoung'sLawyer gave up Hill, Taysom NOS QB

2. Dookmariot / Seventy5 Trade
Dookmariot gave up Peake, Charone NYJ WR
Seventy5 gave up Davis, Mike SEA RB

3. jfever24 / Dookmariot Trade
jfever24 gave up Snead, Willie BAL WR
Dookmariot gave up Year 2019 Round 3 Draft Pick from Dookmariot

4. ericanadian / Dookmariot Trade
ericanadian gave up Wallace, Mike PHI WR
Dookmariot gave up Richard, Jalen OAK RB

[ArrylT]

However since you did mention Yeldon - I am free to note that Yeldon in your lineup in Weeks V & VIII would have given you 2 more wins and 4 more VPs than as currently stands.

[Dookmarriot]

Or maybe I just - correctly - determined that my team wasn't as good as its record and shouldn't try to pull a short cut on a patient rebuild.

Next year I hopefully get back Guice, and with luck I can land a useful piece in the draft. I'd rather do that than give up multiple young pieces in a 16 teamer to "win now" when my team is clearly not ready. Yet.

I've made plenty of inquiries, but if you're asking for a first for @#$% Yeldon, you can only imagine what the asking price for a genuine impact player is.

[ArrylT]

DLF HOF Standings Update

Name - W/L Record - Victory Points* - Points Scored - Points Allowed

Blue

DLF_JaronF - 5-3 - 18 - 924.15 - 804.75
JFever - 4-4 - 12 - 717.70 - 754.15
ArrylT - 1-7 - 5 - 723.20 - 892.40
ericanadian - 1-5 - 2 - 543.40 - 890.80

Black

nation31 - 5-3 - 23 - 1055.15 - 918.45
Dookmariot - 5-3 - 19 - 857.15 - 758.70
steeveb - 4-4 - 18 - 956.65 - 809.15
Jules - 3-5 - 12 - 751.35 - 884.35

White

Plank - 7-1 - 29 - 1210.20 - 928.05
thebeast - 5-3 - 21 - 929.30 - 861.00
maxhyde - 4-4 -14 - 769.00 - 949.60
sloth8u - 0-8 -2 - 587.25 - 988.25

Green

Seventy5 - 8-0 - 31 - 1215.15 - 779.10
TitusYoungsLawyer - 4-4 - 19 - 961.70 - 902.70
knotts4372 - 4-4 - 17 - 890.55 - 918.40
auggiedoggies - 4-4 - 14 - 829.40 - 882.75

* - VP are Bolded

[ArrylT]

Or maybe I just - correctly - determined that my team wasn't as good as its record and shouldn't try to pull a short cut on a patient rebuild.

Next year I hopefully get back Guice, and with luck I can land a useful piece in the draft. I'd rather do that than give up multiple young pieces in a 16 teamer to "win now" when my team is clearly not ready. Yet.

I've made plenty of inquiries, but if you're asking for a first for @#$% Yeldon, you can only imagine what the asking price for a genuine impact player is.

Well technically a late 1st in 16 team league is actually a 2nd in a typical 12 team ppr league.

Anyways like I said I am just using a simple narrative to push a story line.

I never said it was the correct narrative for your team - just that it is an easy one to make.

At least you've made the attempts to see if you could get assets for a playoff push - IMO too many teams get stuck in the middle - too afraid to do something now because they value the future - but the future is unknown - so every year it repeats. Their team is just good enough to be in the middle (due to injuries / bad luck / bad schedule / etc) but never good enough to win.

I certainly am not saying for an owner to sell the farm to get 1 fading veteran asset. For example I need a TE in one league where my only real TE was Hunter Henry. I offered Henry to an Ebron owner who has no shot of contention. They countered with Ebron for Henry & Kerryon. Obviously I declined.

But owners can use a 1st or a 2nd or a young upside guy that hasnt done anything yet (like Gallup or Miller) and get a useful veteran like a Sanders or a Graham or a Yeldon they need to consider these types of deals.

I'm just saying teams need at times to do SOMETHING or get stuck in the murky middle (ergo the story narrative). Maybe for you next year will allow you to get out of the murky middle and this does not apply. We shall see.

[Dookmarriot]

For the last time you're never gonna get a 1st for Yeldon.

Actually that has little to do with Yeldon and I have no issues with any owner who prefer a 13-16 pick to Yeldon. I am just using you as an easy target as the poster owner for teams in all leagues who choose to do nothing rather than try to go for the glory.

See your trade history in 2018 as evidence below:

1. Dookmariot / TitusYoung'sLawyer Trade
Dookmariot gave up Roberts, Michael DET TE
TitusYoung'sLawyer gave up Hill, Taysom NOS QB

2. Dookmariot / Seventy5 Trade
Dookmariot gave up Peake, Charone NYJ WR
Seventy5 gave up Davis, Mike SEA RB

3. jfever24 / Dookmariot Trade
jfever24 gave up Snead, Willie BAL WR
Dookmariot gave up Year 2019 Round 3 Draft Pick from Dookmariot

4. ericanadian / Dookmariot Trade
ericanadian gave up Wallace, Mike PHI WR
Dookmariot gave up Richard, Jalen OAK RB

And if you're accusing me of being a do nothing owner, ask anyone in here about my first year in the league. I think I traded my entire frickin' roster.

Also, you may mock my bargain bin shopping, but guys like Keenum, Stills, Enunwa, and until recently Richard were all waiver wire pickups, and all would likely be startable on your team.

And while Wallace breaking his leg makes me regret the Richard trade, you have to admit Snead and Davis have been cheap n useful...

[ArrylT]

And if you're accusing me of being a do nothing owner, ask anyone in here about my first year in the league. I think I traded my entire frickin' roster.

Also, you may mock my bargain bin shopping, but guys like Keenum, Stills, Enunwa, and until recently Richard were all waiver wire pickups, and all would likely be startable on your team.

And while Wallace breaking his leg makes me regret the Richard trade, you have to admit Snead and Davis have been cheap n useful...

Actually I am not mocking anything. IMHO there is no such thing as a small trade - every trade is a step towards a destination - I was simply showing why it was easy to show the appearance of story narrative I chose to use - because the easy read into that is exactly what you are defending against.

[thebeast]

DLF HOF Standings Update

Name - W/L Record - Victory Points* - Points Scored - Points Allowed

Blue

DLF_JaronF - 5-3 - 18 - 924.15 - 804.75
JFever - 4-4 - 12 - 717.70 - 754.15
ArrylT - 1-7 - 4 - 723.20 - 892.40
ericanadian - 1-5 - 2 - 543.40 - 890.80

Black

nation31 - 5-3 - 23 - 1055.15 - 918.45
Dookmariot - 5-3 - 19 - 857.15 - 758.70
steeveb - 4-4 - 18 - 956.65 - 809.15
Jules - 3-5 - 12 - 751.35 - 884.35

White

Plank - 7-1 - 21 - 1210.20 - 928.05
thebeast - 5-3 - 15 - 929.30 - 861.00
maxhyde - 4-4 - 769.00 - 949.60
sloth8u - 0-8 - 587.25 - 988.25

Green

Seventy5 - 8-0 - 31 - 1215.15 - 779.10
TitusYoungsLawyer - 4-4 - 19 - 961.70 - 902.70
knotts4372 - 4-4 - 17 - 890.55 - 918.40
auggiedoggies - 4-4 - 14 - 829.40 - 882.75

I think your VP numbers are off, at least for my division.